Author Topic: ? Rocket Plane? (Read 3434 times)

John Crocker · « **on:** July 04, 2007, 03:49:39 PM »

My flying buddies son (12 yr old) is into model rockets and wanted to know if anybody has ever built a "rocket plane" . Got me thinking, man that might be kinda neat. I know the powered part of the flight would be short, but making a version of the German Komet, or maybe the Bell X-1 with "A" engines in it could be a cool novelty. It would get expensive, with engine costs, but might be something to try out.

Anybody ever done this?

Ralph Wenzel (d) · « **Reply #1 on:** July 04, 2007, 04:10:46 PM »

Hi John,
This'll date me, but in 1953, I finally persuaded my folks to get me a sorta F-86 (heavy, glossy printed paper) powered with a JETEX 50 rocket engine. It never had a chance, 'cause Mom was certain that it would explode and kill me.

She insisted that Dad fly it for me (priorities???); and I knew more about planes at age 8 than Dad ever learned! He tried it twice, with predictable lack of success, and concluded that it was "no good" and a waste of money.

At any rate, I remember a bunch of "sorta-scale" JETEX models from that era. I'm sure I can find ads for several of them in the old Air Trails mags

Of course, if you're talking about a rocket-powered C/L plane, I think the answer is, "No, it hasn't been done. At least not on any wide scale". I do remember a few scale types which used JATO-like setups for extra points. The problem is that the "burn time", at least for small rockets, is just too short foe C/L use. You know - - One really, really fast lap, glide a lap, and land.

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #2 on:** July 04, 2007, 05:21:31 PM »

Sorry Ralph;

Yes it has been done. "Shultzie" posted pictures of what looked like a modified "Shark 45" powered by a "Dyna Jet Red Head" I will get him to post them here.

Also without saying to much, it is about to be done again,

and soon.

"Billy G"

john e. holliday · « **Reply #3 on:** July 04, 2007, 06:38:53 PM »

Sorry to say a Dyna Jet is not a rocket. I think the rocketry association has an event in which a plane is launched by a rocket motor and glides to a landing in stead of parachute. Have fun, DOC Holliday

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #4 on:** July 04, 2007, 07:25:34 PM »

A rocket is a solid-fuel motor which goes F-F-F-F-T and it's done...a Dyna-jet is a pulse jet liquid-fuel engine which goes B-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-M, sustained until everyone within hearing distance wishes it would stop.

--Ray

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #5 on:** July 04, 2007, 07:43:29 PM »

OOOOPS;

My mistake fellas, my apology to you Ralph, I will be more careful in thefuture. Ray, get ready for that BOOOOOM.
It's gonna happen.

"Billy G"

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2007, 08:05:40 PM »

I am vaguely aware of "Rapier" brand rocket motors for model airplanes. For something like a small scale model free flight. From Czech Republic, I think. I don't know if they are available in the US. I suspect you could use them for round-the-pole airplanes.

Bill Little · « **Reply #7 on:** July 04, 2007, 08:37:48 PM »

I recently saw a you tube clip on a large B-29 (although I thought NASA used the B-50??) launch a Bell X-1 while in flight. The X-1 was trimmed for a glide to return to the landing strip! It looked VERY realistic upon launch!!!! I was guessing it had a small Estes rocket in it. (??)

Never can imagine a rocket powered C/L plane.

Robert McHam · « **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2007, 11:06:51 PM »

That would be Mac Hodges B-29. Here is is his web page with more info on these two planes:
http://www.hodgeshobbies.com/home.html

Great videos (lots better than the youtube quality) are there.

Robert

Ron Belcourt · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2007, 03:57:17 AM »

It's been done. It used a non-Estes rocket engine in a "scale" model of .... memory is fading.... some modern jet fighter. The plane was in one of Flying Models columns. I don't have the issue in front of me, but you have to go back roughly 8 or more years ago.
Looked good and for 30 seconds of rush, a good idea

Bill Mohrbacher · « **Reply #10 on:** July 05, 2007, 06:14:55 AM »

Rapier model rocket engines are available in the USA, I don't have the address offhand, but a little Googleing should get it. They look like the Estes engines, but have MUCH lower thrust and longer duration. I beleive they come in different thrusts and durations.

George · « **Reply #11 on:** July 05, 2007, 07:09:10 AM »

Quote from: Ralph Wenzel on July 04, 2007, 04:10:46 PM

Hi John,
This'll date me, but in 1953, I finally persuaded my folks to get me a sorta F-86 (heavy, glossy printed paper) powered with a JETEX 50 rocket engine. It never had a chance, 'cause Mom was certain that it would explode and kill me.

Of course, if you're talking about a rocket-powered C/L plane, I think the answer is, "No, it hasn't been done. At least not on any wide scale". I do remember a few scale types which used JATO-like setups for extra points. The problem is that the "burn time", at least for small rockets, is just too short foe C/L use. You know - - One really, really fast lap, glide a lap, and land.

Hello Ralph,

Never has the paper plane you describe but I had several of the balsa gliders with my JETEX 50 mount tacked on to the fuselage bottom and string attached to one wing. No control, just go and glide (+ whip).
Occasionally got a fuse wire or scrap burned fuel block the hole and cause the spring-loaded safety to release and scorch the outside of the case.

Always lusted over the JETEX 150 PAA loader and the SCORPION 600, but never had them.

I remember a knock-off of the JETEX 50 thet for $1.00 you could get the rocket engine and fuel. I think that one may have been from England also.

I don't think a JETEX (or JET-X) could hack it, but perhaps Bill's Rapier could go a lap. One lap would probably get you on the books.

George

Bill Little · « **Reply #12 on:** July 05, 2007, 12:58:30 PM »

Thanks, Robert. That is ther B-29/Bell X-1 I was thinking of. Guess that X-1 is also R/C ! LOL!!

Randy Cuberly · « **Reply #13 on:** July 05, 2007, 02:36:59 PM »

There was a rocket powered free flight model published in FM in the issue before last.
Nice looking Competition style...don't remember the name of it but plans are available from Carstens.

Randy C

Bill Mohrbacher · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2007, 07:04:36 AM »

Here are some shots of the B29/X1 ; I'm sorry I never got the names of the builder and pilots involved. The B29 is huge, about 16 feet or better. The X1 is also very large, 4 feet or so. In the launch, the X1 is carried under wing, not in the scale position, but who cares! After gaining altitude, the X1 is dropped; after a considerable delay, when people think the X1 is going to land, the rocket is ignited, the X1 damned near disappears vertically, and the crowd goes wild. I can't believe how far RC has come since I was flying rudder only RC in 1959!

Larry Renger · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2007, 09:32:15 AM »

In the late '50s and early 60's at MIT, we flew round-the-pole .020 models indoors (only the Pee Wee .020 was available then). Speeds finally reached 71mph. Anyway, I built a Jet-X 150 powered model and it flew successfully. Not terribly fast compared to the engine models, but then it had about 2 oz of thrust compared to 10 for a Pee Wee. Wish I had a photo of it!

Bill Mohrbacher · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2007, 10:20:37 AM »

Larry,

I remeber the round the pole .020s. I also remember there was a round the pole Jetex in MAN, I think. Seems to me the wings were attached to the spring clip; could that have been yours??

MIT, no wonder all yoour stuff flies and runs so well!!

Robert McHam · « **Reply #17 on:** July 06, 2007, 04:57:07 PM »

Bill, That would be Mac Hodges on the B-29. The wingspan is 20 feet and you should see the videos when he does a low inverted pass! I could never do that! Er, Not with a machine like that!

Robert

Bill Mohrbacher · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2007, 06:10:34 PM »

Robert, I've seen the low inverted passes, the inverted flat spin, and his whole show. Quite impressive, especially when you realize he does it over and over, show after show!

Ron Belcourt · « **Reply #19 on:** July 07, 2007, 12:02:07 AM »

Well I found the issue I was thinking of- Flying Models, June 1995. The mention of the ROCKET powered( not some weak-kneed Rapier, or loud Dyna-jet( love that sound)) aircraft is in "Flying Things for Fledglings". The plane is a Phantom and looks to be roughly 18" long. It is powered by a 'Butt Kicker II- duration type rocket motor'. It said that 4 lbs of thrust was developed for thirty seconds. Not a huge write-up, but interesting concept.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #20 on:** July 08, 2007, 08:15:57 AM »

I never published the Jet-X RTP model, I think it was a "Built" rather than a "Design", that is, I just threw together whatever looked good from what was at hand, and never even made sketches of what it was.

George · « **Reply #21 on:** July 13, 2007, 06:34:08 AM »

Quote from: Bill Mohrbacher on July 06, 2007, 10:20:37 AM

...I also remember there was a round the pole Jetex in MAN, I think. Seems to me the wings were attached to the spring clip...

I remember that pic but can't remember the issue. I think it was in 1957 or 1958.

George

bob branch · « **Reply #22 on:** July 13, 2007, 06:58:06 AM »

If you want a really interesting scale rocket plane, that would have potential as a stunter you could build a replica of the aircraft that was used by the army to develope the JATO rocket bottle system. The developement and testing was done at Wright Patterson in the early 40's. The aircraft was (hope you are sitting down) an ercoupe. Rocket motors were placed under each wing. In 1935 a graduate student at California Institute of Technology Frank Malina became interested in rocket propulsion and began developing the idea. He presented it to Hap Arnold in December 1938 and the Army Air Corps Committee on Research and the National Institute of Sciences. The following summer they awarded reseach money for development of "Jet Assisted Takeoff Research", thus the misnomer which has stuck to this day.

Capt. Homer Boushey was the test pilot for the entire series. On August 6, 1941 he flew the ercoupe to 8000 feet under conventional power with 3 rocket bottles under each wing and fired the rockets. He became the first American to fly a rocket powered plane. Six days later the first rocket assisted takeoff was performed. The ercoupes takeoff roll went from 580 ft to 300 ft and takeoff time from 13.1 seconds to 7.5 seconds. On August 23 the final of 60 test flights was flown. In that they had flown in every other configuration the propellor was removed for the final flight. 12 rocket bottles were installed under the wings and with 336 pounds of total thrust the first American Rocket totally rocket powered flight was accomplished. Capt. Boushey glided the ercoupe back onto the same runway after the motors burned out.

This info is fom Stanley G. Thomas's book The Ercoupe. On page 66 there is a wonderful picture of one of the takeoffs with the ercoupe climbing at about a 45 degree angle. Having been the restorer and owner of a 100% scale ercoupe, I can assure you this is not possible without rocket assist.

Not sure however how you are going to set up 6 to 12 rockets under the wings to go off at the same time on your model, but it would be an interesting idea.

Bob Branch