AMA contest calender gone

[EddyR]

Starting in August this year the AMA is dropping the Events Section in the monthly magazine. Now you must fill in a question section for each search for a city and a date and a state. It is useless and very time consuming to try and use it. You must contact AMA NOW or it will be gone. The old online calendar method will be gone also.
Here is the link that AMA sent to me to try it. http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/calendar.aspx  I sent a email expressing my displeasure on this bad bad format.
 Ed

[EddyR]

 I got back a reply from AMA and here it is
Ed,

Sorry for your frustration, new things can be a pain. None of the search field except the date are required. If you were to leave city, state, class and category at “ALL” or blank. Just choose “type” and date you will get all the listings state by state in alphabetical order just like they are printed in the magazine.

Thanks for your patients

Greg Hahn

  What Greg says is true. With out his explanation I would have not figured it out. Try it, it works
  Ed

[billbyles]

I just tried it & cut/pasted here is what I got: "We apologize there was an error in the page you requested. The webmaster was notified of the problem and will try to have it resolved as soon as possible."  Won't be long before we get the front & back covers with no pages in between.

[Larrys4227]

Bill - I got the same thing

[Bill Heher]

Why don't they just make the move and change the name to "Association of Modeling Amatuers". It is evident they are focusing more and more on grabbing some share of the Park Flier / E-Power ARF / Foamy 3-D RC market, and less on the original role of promoting the advancement of model aviation through individual inovation and competition.  There are no more an Academy than the mail order / on-line diploma peddlers you see on late night TV are colleges.

The magazine is starting to look more and more like Model Airplane News - a catalog for R/C stuff with some articles spread through it. I wold wager that the nxt thing to get reduced is the individual District Reports - they only appeal to a small portion of the membership- and are not generating any plans sales or ad income.It seems they feel that Contests are just a bunch of guys doing the same thing over and over with a bunch of rules, and it takes so much effort  to support, and you have to keep track of National Records, and all that boring stuff......

Much better to have a National Fun Fly, and have a wide variety of airplanes pretending to be helicopters, and planes the size of full scale pretending to be models. If it's a Fun Fly they don't have to deal with the problem of actually scoring flights, tabulating results, or presenting trophies.

I supported AMA during the big fight with the SFA- but not if they are going to keep dumbing it down, and giving not only C/l and FF but competition in general less coverage. Maybe they do need some "Competition"- from an alternate source for insurance to cover modeling activities.

Now all members even remotely interested in competition will have to have a computer and internet access to check for events on the contests calenders, unless we start calling the front desk at AMA in Muncie and ask them to look it up on the computer for us! Imagine how confused th receptionist would get if you asked her about events by Catagory number instead of " Anything for R/C helicopters in June?

[Mike Keville]

They've been dumbing-it-down for years.  It's pretty much acknowledged that "Competition" is a dirty word at the Academy of Mostly ARFs.

[Herb Calvin]

I have felt it is getting to be an advertisers dream. Really have to look for the RC features. Just my thoughts

[Brian Massey]

I supported AMA during the big fight with the SFA- but not if they are going to keep dumbing it down, and giving not only C/l and FF but competition in general less coverage. Maybe they do need some "Competition"- from an alternate source for insurance to cover modeling activities.

 

What about PAMPA as a "break-away" organization? AMA doesn't really care much about C/L anyway. (We know it will never happen.)

Brian

[Andrew Borgogna]

Let's face it guys if it were not for the insurance and that every contest and club requires AMA darn few of us would have anything to do with it.  As long as the contest/clubs require us to show our card to participate the AMA has us by the short hairs.  I get Model Aviation every month and every month it goes in the trash, you would hardly know we exist if your only source of model airplane information was from the AMA.  If you have any doubts about what I have said I strongly recommend you attend the AMA convention next January.  Our club's booth was the ONLY indication that control ine even exists.  We had questions for the AMA reps regarding help in keeping Whittier Narrows circles and they blew us off like we were a joke.  

The online forums, and web hardware providers are our only links the roots of our hobby.  Sorry for venting, but this has been a while coming.  
Andy

[EddyR]

I got the link from the new "AMA e-newsletter " that they sent me. I tried the ling that I put above and it works for me. Maybe it recognized me and opened the page.
 Go to the AMA site and then the new AMA e-newletter,AMA Today.there is the link to the new Contest Caledar. There is no mention on how to get it to work so I wrote the them a rather caustic email and got the reply you see above. It is easy to work but you need to know how to do it or you will waist a great  of time. Just put in the dates and it will look just like the Magazine. There are stars showing required fields but ignore them.
Ed

[Jim Thomerson]

On Monday I took the first load of recent Model Aviation's to the recycling bin.  More will come.  It has been suggested that if one does not want Model Aviation, one could have it directed to a school or library.  I will not do so because I don't want someone picking up a MA and thinking it represents model aviation as I understand it. From my point of view Flying Models is far superior to Model Aviation.  I am now in the let's have Model Aviation as an option crowd.

[Randy Powell]

>>Won't be long before we get the front & back covers with no pages in between. <<

Oh, there will be pages in between. ARF ads, 3D foamy ads, electric ads, ad ads, etc.

Look guys, it's been clear for years that the AMA doesn't much care about CL, FF or RC competition. That's fine. It would certainly be nice if we could get all the control line and free flight clubs and SIGs together to establish a central organization and then provide our own insurance. I was in my insurance providers office the other day and asked if it would be likely that a underwriter would go for something like that. He said probably. It would depend on the frequency of claimable accidents. The larger the base (number of people signing up), the cheaper (figures). But he didn't see a big problem. I told him what the AMA provides and the costs and he was stunned that it costs that much.

If things keep going the way they are, perhaps that's what we will do.

[Paul Smith]

We gave up on the AMA contest calander years ago.  Now they want a premium to list contests even if you "buy" a sanction months in advance. 

Better to use the calenders in Stuka, Stunt Hanger, PAMPA, Control Line World, etc.

In fact, if you own the field or have a year-long certificate of insurance, there's no need for an AMA Sanction at all.

[Hoss Cain]

A few lines down the subjects line is another thread addressing this topic. I posted it earlier as, "Planning/hosting/sponsoring future AMA Sanctioned Events". It's (was) the topic just above the P-40 topic.

Mr. Paul, as a very long time active person in AMA, I don't care about the "NEED" for the Event listing in MA. I use it frequently, but if I need the latest, I go the AMA District VIII web site where the latest event sanction applications are posted for my district. For others I can use the AMA web site. That is not the question. It is simply that AMA just does not care about those of us that have built AMA from years back.

Here is what I sent to back to AMA's Publications Dept., to my DVP, and to the AMA Pres.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"AMA Event Calendar to be exclusively online"

After thorough user testing, the monthly Event Calendar at the back of Model Aviation magazine will transition to an online-only service starting with the July issue.  This online calendar was launched as an addition to the AMA Web site in February, and will remain in the magazine through the June issue to allow modelers and competitors to smoothly acquaint themselves with this important change. Click below to check out the event calendar.

<<<<<<<<<<<<
 
I did "check it out".  To me, it is very sad that the AMA has to take away from those that have been the No.1 supporters of AMA, from AMA's beginning to the current day. I well understand that times do change, yet it is those dedicated members that plan, organize, promote and FINANCE these events that bring the aeromodeling message forward. Now just whom do you wish to shoot down first??   Yes, those that are the base supporters of the AMA, and the ones the founding fathers organized this AMA for. Sad, indeed.
 
It is far beyond my comprehension why the AMA magazine cannot have these listings in the AMA's "Non related Business" called Model Aviation.  Why not at least for just two (2) months after the cover date? In my not-so-humbe opinion, many newcomers will not ever know just where the events are depicted. OTOH I suppose that is just one more step to making the magazine even more "non-related."
 
Having the magazine in hand during times when no laptop is available gives one an opportunity to peruse the events and make decisions concerning what, when, and future attendance. While there are many changes that AMA could seek for,  after all these 60+/- years of being an AMA member, worker, and supporter, I must say that this is not one that I think should happen.
 
Sincerely,
 
(signed)
Horrace D. Cain
AMA L-93
 
 

[Richard Grogan]

I wonder if we are just trying to save paper here??Seems to me the callendar is something that should be considered as esential for the membership. I guess they need more paper space for advertising?Nuts.Some folks still don't even own a computer!

     

[Richard Grogan]

They can't possibly think everyone can be"online",can they??   I see the registered users on the AMA site is a very,very small percentage of the actual membership.

I vote they put all of the advertisements and other garbage online, and just put modeling articles and news in the magazine!   Then they could print the callendar bigger for you! 

Yes, it would be a "small" publication then...

[Brett Buck]

What about PAMPA as a "break-away" organization? AMA doesn't really care much about C/L anyway. (We know it will never happen.)

     Look up "Sport Fliers Association" or SFA, and I think you will see the issues involved, and some interesting parallels with recent PAMPA history.  I would like to think we are somewhat less crazy than those behind SFA, but I would have a lot of difficulty providing evidence.

   We would have an even harder go of it, due to the FAI recognizing only one National Aero Club, which is the AMA as delegated by the NAA. I think the AMA is the largest individual group in the NAA.

     Brett
   

[Brett Buck]

They've been dumbing-it-down for years.  It's pretty much acknowledged that "Competition" is a dirty word at the Academy of Mostly ARFs.

    I look at it from the other end of the scale. Given the absolutely tiny fraction of AMA members involved in competition, they provide grossly disproportionate support. You've seen what they do at the NATs, they put themselves out for us. Even with the SIGs taking the majority of the event manpower, prepping that field, provide the structure, etc, is a quite non-trivial cost. There are PLENTY of AMA members who would happily kill competition entirely to save 50 cents on yearly dues. That has been staved off for decades now only because there are a few people at AMA in positions of responsibility that think about the AMA like we do.

     Don't get me wrong, I see everyone's point and I don't like the idea of competition getting shuffled off as a second-class activity any more than anyone else. But I think if you look at it from the other side, you will at least see their point.

     Brett

[Mike Keville]

To some degree that is correct.  Today's AMA members are mostly Buy-and-Fly types who have no idea what it's like to actually build a model.  There are those of us who remember when the AMA was heavily involved with competition events rather than today's Instant Gratification/"everyone gets a prize" crowd....and it's a real shame to realize that those days are gone forever.

Frankly, if AMA membership wasn't required in order to fly at most sites and enter contests, it wouldn't be worth the annual expense.

[Paul Smith]

They can't possibly think everyone can be"online",can they??   I see the registered users on the AMA site is a very,very small percentage of the actual membership.

I vote they put all of the advertisements and other garbage online, and just put modeling articles and news in the magazine!   Then they could print the calender bigger for you! 

Yes, it would be a "small" publication then...

Does anybody else see the ridiculous counterdiction of producing a "hard copy" magazine which directs the reader to a web site form the information he really wants?   The advertisers who really want to sell product, use multi-page full color ads.  They don't just post a note sending you to a web site.

Lots of magazines have 80% ads and 20% editorial content.  Much more and it becomes the Shopping News.

[Jim Thomerson]

This months Flying Models has two construction articles, one RC, one UC, both slimers.  No overprinting on the plans.  There is also a rubber powered kit construction review, and review of some (not sure how many) ARFs.  All these articles have abundant photographs.  Dean Pappas has a two page long with no pictures discussion of tuned pipes.  A number of other columns as well.  Why is a commercial magazine with a fairly small circulation (and lots of small interesting ads) so far superior to our subsidized, huge circulation Model Aviation ARF catalogue?

[john e. holliday]

I only bllame ourselves for what we have.  How many of the questionairs have we filled out in the past about how AMA is doing.  Even when Bobby Hunt had a big hand in it.  I also blame ourselves for not getting the right people in the leadership positions. like District VP's.  Yes there are a couple that still cover the contests in their district.  But, mostly it is fun flies and demos.  Like Ty, I have a hard time reading the fine print in the events/contests section.   In the early days I attended contests that were never put in the magazine because of deadlines of the magazine and sanctioning.  Go look at the section now and see how many real contests are listed compared to the fun flies.

Now to those that don't look at their copy of MA better wake up as that is where you will find the rules proposals after the submission deadline is past.  Also don't hesitate to contact your district contest rules board member no matter what event you fly.  Even if you don't fly that event now you may in the future.  The MA is supposed to be for the members of AMA and if we don't let them know what we think, they may think  we don't exist.

Now Flying Models is one of the great all round magazines going right now even if it don't  have the number of pages that others do.  I have seen posts on here and other sites about problems with Flying Models.  Yes they had a glitch and are trying to get back on track.  We need to keep supporting them also.  PAMPA has now introduced an online Stunt News with reduced membership fee.  Great for those that do not read.  I am getting both the hard copy and paper of Stunt News.   I also support the speed society, navy carrier society and racing society.  The last two get newsletters via the coputor age.  Any body that does not have a computor surely knows someone that does.  Now get the tar and feathers ready as I am headed for Tuscon Town for VSC.

[Dennis Moritz]

Aren't non-competitors inspired by those that compete? Competition planes are often innovative and original, pushing the hobby forward. Even in our hide bound conservative area of interest, we have piped motors, big cubes, electric, among the fairly recent new takes. I always thought that fun fly/sport fly and competition were linked. Besides lots of folks attend the NATs. There's a wide spectrum of events. The big spread in Muncie would have no justification if competition flying ceased or scaled back significantly.

[Serge_Krauss]

Dennis-

I entirely agree with you. The real Nats coverage that we used to have in the various model plane publications was informative and inspiring. While I have never been a competitor in model aviation, I was certainly inspired to build and participate in the hobby by the competition coverage and construction articles, many of which were for competition stunt, speed, racing, and FF models. I looked up to Werwage, Palmer, and others, and that's why I started and came back to model planes.

Putting the scheduled events only on-line will deny at least half of our club members direct access to that information. I'm continually amazed at what a publication supposedly paid for by and produced for members will deny them. This aspect of the magazine is one of it's original purposes. First making published plans illegible and now this...

At least, despite the strident editorial remarks in last month's issue, it seems that they've backed off some from mutilating the construction-article plans.

SK

[Chris McMillin]

They've been dumbing-it-down for years.  It's pretty much acknowledged that "Competition" is a dirty word at the Academy of Mostly ARFs.

Here's my newest ARF, Mike!
Chris...
BTW, as incomplete as the AMA calender is, it's just about useless now. SIG's are the ones making the competition scene work, and we know that already. Now that SIG's reps are writing the competition stories in MA, they dominate the content anyway.

[Richard Grogan]

I guess the point that bugs me the most about the callendar going away is the wealth of contact information that is there, for everyone/anyone who may be remotely interested in getting into the hobby. The magazine is sold in hobbyshops, donated to school libraries,ect... not just members. The AMA is cutting its own throat for potential growth of membership, and the hobby in general. It's not just about the competition info. These events are where new folks, who are interested, go to learn and meet people to help them get in to the hobby.Shame on someone for dreaming up this "logical" idea...

 

[Eric Viglione]

That's great and all, but it kinda becomes a two edged sword. Great, the SIGS handle the work and stuff better, but shluff everything including coverage of our biggest events like the NATS, Brodaks, VSC, off to the SIGS, and it takes you out of the public eye of the mainstream. "Oh, don't cover the NATS in MA, the SIG PAMPA will cover it in SN... " The next thing you know, people are saying to you "Oh, C/L? People still do that?" See where I'm going?

I don't think being marginalized because we have a great SIG is fair. We should still fight for every square inch of mainstream coverage we can get. Otherwise our SIG coverage is just preaching to the quire, and really kills any chances we have at growing our numbers.

Just my .02 , flame proof skivvy's at the ready.
EricV

.... SIG's are the ones making the competition scene work, and we know that already. Now that SIG's reps are writing the competition stories in MA, they dominate the content anyway.

[Bill Hodges]

I just tried it and it worked fine.  Gave me a list exactly like what is printed in the mag.

Bill Hodges

[peabody]

I asked my District VP the reasoning behind dropping the calendar....his reply: that it costs the AMA $250,000.00 per year to have in print! A pretty fair reason, I believe.
I try to check the club's web site or to e-mail a member of the sponsoring club to be certain that the event will take place.
I try to keep both the GSCB web site and my own as up-to-date as I possible can for that reason.
The Internet is available for free to every American at public libraries and there are people at the libraries that are happy to help the Internet challenged.
The next question that I will ask is if the sanction fee will remain the same (or go down?)?
Gary alluded that the magazine might be available entirely on-line in the future....

Most of our local contests are "traditional" and have "traditional" dates....I still use post cards to promote the events that I CD.

Have fun!

[john e. holliday]

I went to the District IX site and I had to get the administrator to correct my position.  They had me under speed instead of stunt board.  In truth the AMA site is not as hard to look around in as I make it.  Still used to using paper copies.  I think we can get the word out about contests somehow or another.  Remember a lot of contests I have attended in the past were not processed in time to make the magazine.  If the magazine was as instant as the internet it might be different.

[Hoss Cain]

Peabody
I asked my District VP the reasoning behind dropping the calendar....his reply: that it costs the AMA $250,000.00 per year to have in print! A pretty fair reason, I believe.


Holliday:
I think we can get the word out about contests somehow or another. Remember a lot of contests I have attended in the past were not processed in time to make the magazine. If the magazine was as instant as the internet it might be different

You guys are like so many that think WE that pay for this AMA should buckle under and bear the weight. I differ greatly as that is what the magazine is for, to serve the membership, not just support the 13 employees assigned to "publications" while 8 are assigned to the membership service.

Actually:
8 employees assigned to ''Membership'', plus 3 assigned to ''Safety and Member Benefits,'' total of 11 assigned to member services.

2 employees assigned to ''Competition''.

THIRTEEN (13) employees assigned to ''PUBLICATIONS''. 4 more assigned to ''Information Systems''. What do they really do? The computer systems are leased.

10 to serving the membership. 17 to serving the ''SYSTEM''. Call it as you wish!

Looking for a new Media Manager. check http://www.modelaircraft.org/aboutama/hr.aspx

I wonder why someone already in-house is not PROMOTED to that position? 

AMA's MA loses about 1,000,000 yankee dollars each year due to undercutting the free-market magazines in advertising rates even though MA has some 140,000 conscripted subscribers, while the nearest competitor that even makes the newsstands has less than 70,000 total distribution.
All you have to do is read the annual Audit Reports and it's there in black and white. Very easy AR to digest.
MA losses exceed the cost of your AMA liability insurance.

They are playing you and me big time when getting rid of a few pages of the sanctioned events each month. They don't appear cutting back on PPP and that has cost them each year well more than $250,000.oo net loss.

[Richard Grogan]

I echo the letter you sent,posted on the AMA forum Hoss. I had sent a similar letter to Dave earlier in the week expressing the same concerns. Hopefully it will be realized as an oversight, and the two tools can live together.We only have right at 1000 registered users on the AMA site. Not a very good showing of the entire membership by a long shot.As someone posted,"only 138,000 give or take,to go..." I hope they get it right.