AMA's latest message - FAA model plane regulation

[GallopingGhostler]

I just received the following by E-mail from AMA:

Academy of Model Aeronautics
Member Communication
Friday, July 15, 2016

Dear Members,

We are happy to announce big news related to FAA authorization. As of today, both the Senate and House of Representatives have passed a 14-month FAA extension, and the President has signed the bill into law.

We are very pleased that the FAA extension affirms our right to continue to fly within AMA's community-based safety program and free from additional government regulations. Congress continues to recognize the importance of AMA and our strong commitment to safety.

As you know, AMA aggressively engaged with Congress to achieve the best possible result for our members. It is through these advocacy efforts that we were able to achieve our goal of maintaining the Special Rule for Model Aircraft and protecting our hobby. This victory adds to AMA's history of successfully advocating for our members at the federal level, including with the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), the Department of Commerce, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the Department of the Interior, the U.S. Forrest Service, the Department of Homeland Security, the FAA and Congress.

There are two important things for all AMA members to know about the extension. The first, and most important for our hobby, is that the extension preserves the Special Rule for Model Aircraft (Section 336 of the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act) through September 2017. And second, while this bill does not nullify FAA's requirement to register, we are pleased to share that the problematic language that existed in earlier FAA bills has been removed.

Our advocacy efforts are not over - we continue to work with the FAA on reducing the burden of the registration requirement on AMA members. And, over the next 14 months, we will continue to work with Congress on a long-term reauthorization bill that will further strengthen the Special Rule for Model Aircraft and advance other protections of our longstanding hobby.

We want to extend our appreciation to all of our members and donors for your support throughout this process.

Thank you,
AMA Government Affairs Team

I have not seen the verbiage of the bill, so I don't know what problematic language was removed. It did not remove FAA registration requirement. I am hoping that they clarified, control line and free flight do not require registration.

[dave siegler]

I think is is only responsible to read the bill before you post something like that.  unless you are a troll.

but to save a whole bunch of hand wringing and unnecessary finger pointing  I read it.

https://www.commerce.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/992cabb4-bd39-474e-b8a7-8056ddd11ca9/DC007B30B900E86BC8D72E87BA555A73.faa-bill-text.pdf

See
SEC. 2129. SPECIAL RULES FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT
it describes the changes

My read is that it is business as usual, but stay under 400 feet., line of site, 5 miles from airports.

The big change, looks like the really really dumb rule is inserted into us, the FAA can take action.

In full scale if you do something really really dumb that isn't explicitly specified, the FAA can come after you.
So when you do something that is really really stupid but not listed in the regs you can't play dumb and get away with it.

Looks like if you fly over people not involved, or do some unspecified unsafe operation you can be prosecuted and that is OK by me.
I can see where the AMA might not like this, they want to be in control.

It is a don't use questionable judgment rule.  
This comes from some of the defense of the drone  guys that say "show me where is says  I can't do that".  Which impossible for the FAA to go after troublemakers like Trappy.

Search trappy vs faa.  that idiot should be in jail or at least prohibited entry to USA.



BTW all ama members with an email address got that so why post it here?  Are you trolling. ?

[GallopingGhostler]

I think is is only responsible to read the bill before you post something like that. unless you are a troll. but to save a whole bunch of hand wringing and unnecessary finger pointing  I read it. (SNIP) BTW all ama members with an email address got that so why post it here?  Are you trolling. ?

I posted this in honesty. Not all are AMA members. I don't appreciate your accusations. It is people like you that that are largely responsible for why I don't like to post in forums like Stunt Hangar.

[Robert Zambelli]

Dave - STOP with the trolling CRAP. 

I'm glad he posted it and I hope people continue to do so.

I for one, DO NOT get e-mails from the ama and I have no desire to do so.

If you don't like someone's posts, don't read them and refrain from name calling.

People do not like to be called trolls.

Bob Z.

[john e. holliday]

George don't take it to heart.   I've been called a troll which is better than some names I've been called.  Everybody has an opinion, some good, some bas.  I am so glad I didn't sign with the FAA.  I thought it was a farce back when it started and still think its a farce.  If the AMA wants to take my license they can have it.   I know quite a few people who don't know our AMA is.  Have to tell them I'm not a medical doctor.  Anyway, I'm going to fly when I want and when I want until the local law says different.

[FLOYD CARTER]

What is the definition of "troll"?  The dictionary explains the word, but that doesn't seem to explain what goes on here.

(I want the definition so that I don't accidently become one).

Floyd

[Randy Cuberly]

I would point out that for a fair period of time now the various branches of the Government have not paid much "homage" to Congress and their laws in making and enforcing various departmental rules.  Worse, they have been getting away with it for some time.  In other words...What will be will be. 

Just might be that the FAA will continue to do what they want to do!  Various Governmental departments continue to twist the law to what they want, tie things up in useless "hearings", shop judges at various court levels for decisions that change nothing...and continue to operate as they wish.  It's happening every day in every branch of Government...best to just ignore the whole thing.   

Randy Cuberly   

[Bill Morell]

What is the definition of "troll"?  The dictionary explains the word, but that doesn't seem to explain what goes on here.

(I want the definition so that I don't accidently become one).

Floyd

For a complete and most likely biased explanation of what is a "troll" go to Charles playground  AKA CFC Graphics and read it. He has a fascination with the term and has kindly posted it so that we can all benefit from it.

[Jim Kraft]

Personally I like Trolls. They taste like chicken. Randy has it right though. The government has gotten so big and full of itself that it is now in every facet of our lives. Instead of being for the people it oppresses the people. We are now governed by the supreme court instead of our elected officials except where one is more PC than the other. Gee, I hope I am not trolling. 

[Randy Cuberly]

For a complete and most likely biased explanation of what is a "troll" go to Charles playground  AKA CFC Graphics and read it. He has a fascination with the term and has kindly posted it so that we can all benefit from it.

Might get contaminated by going there!!!   

Randy C.

[dave siegler]

In five minutes you could have had the answer OR you could post a inflammatory statement making everyone crazy?   

Sorry but that is not cool, and that is trolling by definition.

It only took me 5 minutes. the AMA should have said in the email what they were upset about as well.
from Wikipedia

 In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[3] often for their own amusement.



I think you all need to go out flying more. 
lets be fact based?   

my ignore file gets bigger every week.

 

[Shug Emery]

I am an AMA member and paid my FAA $5 and heard from neither of them.
And the original post is for sure not trolling but rather trying to just inform.
Shug....who flew today.

[billbyles]

In five minutes you could have had the answer OR you could post a inflammatory statement making everyone crazy?   

Sorry but that is not cool, and that is trolling by definition.

It only took me 5 minutes. the AMA should have said in the email what they were upset about as well.
from Wikipedia

 In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,[3] often for their own amusement.



I think you all need to go out flying more. 
lets be fact based?   

my ignore file gets bigger every week.

 

Who put you in charge here, Siegler? Your condescending, pedantic, arrogant approach is not needed nor is it appreciated here - in case you did not notice.  You seem to post little here that is positive and jump in when you feel we should all get the benefit of some of your holier than thou lectures.

[Terry Caron]

Thanks for the update, George, it's much appreciated.
If that's your version of trolling, we can use more of it.

Terry

[dave siegler]

nope not in charge.  Only looking for the truth.

Some times the truth inst pretty.  

sometimes it is easy to find and not so bad.
  
most of the people here just want to sling 1/2 truths and argue.  Spread FUD (Fear uncertainty and Doubt)

And I see the same incendiary comment from the same person on every forum the control line ones and the RC ones.  That is a troll and trolls need to be called out.  

I see people worried about registration but give the corner gas station more info than the FAA wants in hope of a free coffee.  

Personally I am less worried about the info FAA has on me than I am about Amazon or Bass Pro Shop.  
 
I am watching a few RC clubs being completely tor apart by the drone and the FAA thing and so far it's not worth the angst.

Also here I see people that haven't flown since the bush era winding each other like tops.

It almost like they enjoy misery if misery is you game enjoy it. I have better things to do.


I apologize to George my tone was out of line.  




  

[GallopingGhostler]

What is the definition of "troll"?  The dictionary explains the word, but that doesn't seem to explain what goes on here. (I want the definition so that I don't accidently become one). Floyd

http://webtrends.about.com/od/Internet-Culture/a/What-Is-Internet-Trolling.htm

So, according to the Urban Dictionary’s top rated definition for “trolling,” it can be defined as: “Being a prick on the internet because you can. Typically unleashing one or more cynical or sarcastic remarks on an innocent by-stander, because it's the internet and, hey, you can.”

Wikipedia defines it as: "Someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.”

Psychology Today further classifies it as a personality disorder:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-online-secrets/201409/internet-trolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists

Let's start by getting our definitions straight: An Internet troll is someone who comes into a discussion and posts comments designed to upset or disrupt the conversation. Often, in fact, it seems like there is no real purpose behind their comments except to upset everyone else involved. Trolls will lie, exaggerate, and offend to get a response. .... Canadian researchers .... conducted two online studies with over 1,200 people, .... for evidence that linked trolling with the "Dark Tetrad" of personality traits: narcissism, Machiavellianism, psychopathy, and sadism. They found that Dark Tetrad scores were highest among people who said trolling was their favorite Internet activity. .... Trolls truly enjoy making you feel bad. To quote the authors once more (because this is a truly quotable article): "Both trolls and sadists feel sadistic glee at the distress of others. Sadists just want to have fun ... and the Internet is their playground!"

Floyd, by these definitions you are not a troll. OTOH, the shoe fits on at least one poster.

I am so glad I didn't sign with the FAA. I thought it was a farce back when it started and still think its a farce. If the AMA wants to take my license they can have it. I know quite a few people who don't know our AMA is. Have to tell them I'm not a medical doctor. Anyway, I'm going to fly when I want and when I want until the local law says different.

John, what I've been looking for clarification on and have not yet found written is that CL and FF in fact are not included. Thus far, law verbiage does not, considering CL as "tethered UAS". AMA thus far has stated that CL registration was not required. Some have alluded that FAA stated similar. Problem is, verbiage is left up to interpretation. It would be good to have written codification.

At work my supervisor used to tell me, "George, set your expectations low, so that when they are met, you are elated." At this point I don't have my expectations high. However, I agree with you. We fly, behave ourselves, have fun, enjoy the activity. At the time the local authorities put a kibosh on things, then we do differently. I'm not losing sleep over it.

[Mike Griffin]

ARGH

[Steve Helmick]

I'd stay out of this thread altogether, but I think we should come up with an alternate definition for "UAS".  Might want to add "TROLL" to that short list. Might be a fun name for at least a sport model, if not a killer new PA plane.  Steve

[GallopingGhostler]

This is interesting. I rarely post any more on forums. I occasionally lurk, read what is interesting. I see how one innocent post on this forum all of a sudden brings up people calling it a troll. This tells me people have too much time on their hands, and in really who their master is. Reasonable people don't do this type behavior.

You know who you are. All you've done is derail what started out to be for informative and intelligent discussion, but a few of you are incapable of this.

And David Siegler, you mention seeking the truth and "And I see the same incendiary comment from the same person on every forum the control line ones and the RC ones.  That is a troll and trolls need to be called out." Why the subtle lie? I rarely post in ALL forums these days, and the last time I posted regarding AMA was a while back, may be a year ago. Those were certainly not trolls.

It is folks like you and several others that make this forum an unpleasant place to be. You know who you are.

[dave siegler]

Again I apologize my tone was over the top.   

I still do not agree with posting opened ended messages that invite controversy.  it winds people up.  Call it what you will.  And civilized people can agree to disagree.

I am not wasting my time with UAV, or the FAA anymore.  CL isn't going to show up on a congressional approbation. 

None of us can change the behavior of the drone pilots and how the FAA and public reacts to it.  It's just noise and the bitching about it here seems to be in favor. 

[GallopingGhostler]

Again I apologize my tone was over the top. I still do not agree with posting opened ended messages that invite controversy. it winds people up. Call it what you will. And civilized people can agree to disagree. I am not wasting my time with UAV, or the FAA anymore. CL isn't going to show up on a congressional appropriation. None of us can change the behavior of the drone pilots and how the FAA and public reacts to it. It's just noise and the bitching about it here seems to be in favor.

Apology accepted. Dave, it was not my intent to bring up bad feelings, far from it. Will all the crazy things going on in our nation, there is a lot of strong feelings, but I digress as these are not CL related and to even mention them would be not conducive to the promotion of CL.

OTOH, I noticed several other replies, which were troll digs toward Charles, who in my opinion is a genius. He has some of the greatest CL builds with his techniques in finishes. I don't know what motivates people to attack him. Jealousy?

Need to complete my 1960's era OK Models Pilot hardwood 27" Cessna 177 build with same era Enya .09-III engine. I mounted it inverted to clean up the nose looks and get the left hand exhaust on the outside of the circle. This is what CL is about, fun.

[Randy Cuberly]

Again I apologize my tone was over the top.   

I still do not agree with posting opened ended messages that invite controversy.  it winds people up.  Call it what you will.  And civilized people can agree to disagree.

I am not wasting my time with UAV, or the FAA anymore.  CL isn't going to show up on a congressional approbation. 

None of us can change the behavior of the drone pilots and how the FAA and public reacts to it.  It's just noise and the bitching about it here seems to be in favor. 

Dave I think you're probably a very nice guy... however open discussion and controversy is one of the major ingredients in FREEDOM.  Surely you must realize that!  If not I suggest you study some history!

Randy Cuberly