Aldrich's Nobler would fly how far?

[jeffindayton]

I have a question....trying to clear some possible folk lore.....How far would Adrich glide his Nobler's after the engine quit.

Was he whipping?

I have heard tales about this and currious about reality.

[Randy Cuberly]

You may be referring to "wind flying".  Doing lazy eights after the engine quits in a fairly stiff breeqe.

A number of "Notables" from the past and present do this for "Fun".

Some seem to be able to do it as long as they like and the wind keeps blowing!

I've done it but it always scares heck out of me!!

[Jim Thomerson]

When I was hanging out with George in the summer of 1955, I watched him build a Nobler from scratch, from the MAN plans, I think, in a week's time of concentrated effort.  When we went out to fly it, there was a pretty good wind. Last flight he did a good bit of wind flying.  I thought he did the full pattern, but I was not flying stunt at the time and was not real familiar with the pattern. I do distinctly remember him flying both vertical 8's and overhead 8's. Needless to say, I was amazed.  In one of him MAN columns, Bill Winter stated that George wind flew a full pattern at one of the Nats.  I think it was an exhibition flight and they eventually made him quit so something else could go on.

When I lived in Lubbock, I wind flew a number of times.  Loops and horizontal lazy 8's are easy if you are young and vigorous. I've seen several people wind fly lazy 8's; one with a 1/2A combat airplane.  Marvin Denny will often wind fly a couple of lazy 8's after he finishes the pattern.  You need a fairly steady wind.

[George]

Since he admitted in a video conversation to only building about 6 Noblers, was this quicky the one he assembled using rubber glue??  I remember  reading about  one he did rather quickly and it fell apart after about a month.  I forget the name of the glue.

Plyobond (Pliobond?) is not rubber glue, it is a contact cement.

You will build only one model with it...don't ask.

George

[Jim Thomerson]

No, this was a standard built Nobler.  He covered it with yellow Jap tissue and sprayed it mostly metallic purple.  He hand lettered all the numbers and so on.  His comment was that judges liked that.  I think George had had some art training; in any case his numbers were flawless, but you could tell they had been brushed, same with the pinstripes around them, when you examined them closely.  The day after George flew that Nobler as described above, he sold it to a rich kid we knew, who promptly crashed and demolished it.   

As I recall, the Pliobond Nobler was yellow and flown at one of the Nats.  I did not see it in the flesh.

[rustler]

Actually, nobody's answered the original question. How far did it glide, and was it whipped assisted? I'm interested as I've recently been flying a bought Freebird which has great landing characteristics, but to get anything like a whole lap from the 5' altitude I seem to end up running round the perimeter of the circle!

[L0U CRANE]

Ian,

Wind flying is a combination of whipping and leading to keep the energy up and use the wind to regain lost velocity. I guess it resembles flying a two-line high maneuverability kite, except there is more mass to maintain momentum once you've got the speed up. Stunt models generally are much cleaner than kites, so there's less drag when not flying at higher angles of attack.

Except for the more recent, hugely powered, models, most stunt fliers have used a few aspects of wind flying: Consider -

...positioning 'off due downwind' to let the wind help keep round figures round and at moderate speed.

... whipping up some added velocity to enter, for example, the Reverse Wing Over or Overhead Eights. The RWO is at the worst time of the flight for a tight turn at the upwind point (full tank, and possibly a richer run than later); the overheads are all above 45°, so a clean and powerful entry climb really helps confidence.

As Randy C mentioned, it can be quite frightening - hence, I, too, have only limited experience with this fine art.

And, being flown on the same roughly hemispherical surface, distance may not be the best measure... Time seems more appropriate. GMA and Marvin Denny were mentioned, and it would seem that they ceased wind flying when they chose, not when it became necessary.

[Marvin Denny]

  To  try to attempt to answer the qriginal question, I have actually glided two full laps and then some and I am certain that with a light aircraft and with no wind to hinder the glide, Four or perhaps more could be possible.  Starting the glide from somewhere around the 45 degree height .

  Bigiron

[jeffindayton]

So...when the engine quits we gain energy by using the wind and altitude to overcome gravity and drag on the lines and plane??? So on the down wind sides we would gain grouns speed and on the up wind sides we should climb into the manuvers?.....Guess I am going to have to build a whip powered to try this out..... Any Amazer plans anyone could send me.

[Jim Thomerson]

The late Gene Hempel and I cooperatively built two #7 Easys.  Gene's came out a couple of ounces heavier than mine. Mine flew better for it, even though still an overweight pig.  Mine would do well to glide a quarter of a lap with my best efforts.  On the other hand Gene's would easily glide a lap or more. Gene was much more the athlete  and that may have been part of it, but his effort was not that obvious.  So I don't know what to tell you.

[Eric Viglione]

I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it in person. John Sylvestro, formerly of Flushing Medows area moved to Florida and showed me some serious wind flying. He took the prop off the motor, had his son stand upwind and toss the plane, and I'll be darned if he didn't take it into a wing over, right across the top better than I've seen some people do under power, and then proceeded to do loops and eights down wind as long as the wind held up.  His weapon of choice seemed to be the little Carl Goldberg profiles (buster, shoestring etc)

It's an amazing sight to see! 

As to glide, medium weight planes with a slightly forward C/G ships seem to glide better than aft C/G ships, and are certainly easier to whip if needed. Starting from 5 Ft, not too many will go more than a lap or two. I see some people like to climb up a bit so they can spiral them in after the motor quits.

EricV

[Russell Shaffer]

Just how much wind is necessary for this?  I am amazed. 

[Joe Messinger]

Is the video you mention still available?  Where?

Thanks!

Joe