Author Topic: Acme Rocket Plane (Banjok's Buzz Bomb) (Read 15909 times)

john e. holliday · « **Reply #50 on:** May 02, 2012, 05:54:09 AM »

One was used in a scale plane years ago. If I remember right the person said they should be banned from control line flying.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #51 on:** May 02, 2012, 08:43:06 AM »

I beleive the little turbine jets put out a little more power than a Dyna jet. Look at the size planes they go in. Maybe someone can contact Charley Baur as I beleive he was the person that had the first turbine in a control line plane.

Bill Mohrbacher · « **Reply #52 on:** May 02, 2012, 07:43:29 PM »

I took out my turbine comments. This thread is about Dan's Dyna-jet stunter. When I was at the 1961 Willow Grove Nats, a guy was flying one outside the work hanger in the evening. I seem to remember it had a T tail or at least a high tail. I don't remember any inverted, but I think he did some eights and loops for sure!

Mike Palko · « **Reply #53 on:** May 02, 2012, 09:10:00 PM »

Quote from: Bill Mohrbacher on May 02, 2012, 07:43:29 PM

I took out my turbine comments. This thread is about Dan's Dyna-jet stunter. When I was at the 1961 Willow Grove Nats, a guy was flying one outside the work hanger in the evening. I seem to remember it had a T tail or at least a high tail. I don't remember any inverted, but I think he did some eights and loops for sure!

Bill,

I think the airplane you speak of is pictured in this thread.

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=3677.0;prev_next=prev

Mike

Bill Mohrbacher · « **Reply #54 on:** May 03, 2012, 05:33:34 AM »

That could have been it Dan. After hundreds of gallons of Schmidts and a bit more of microbrews lately may memory of 1961 is a tad foggy.

I can't wait to see Dan's ship at Brodak's.

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #55 on:** May 08, 2012, 10:48:03 PM »

John Glatthorn, one of our Philly Flyer club members, videoed at Reading. He recorded a number of Banjok's Stunt Jet flights as well as Palko's flight. The video is now edited and stored on a DVD, but is too large to upload directly. Can someone outline the steps for posting the video on Youtube (or another website?) so that it can be linked to Sunthanger. Also, how do we do the link. What about compressing the video? Is that a practical option. If so, what software would accomplish that. Perhaps opening a new thread to discuss video postings on Stunthanger would be useful. Many issues are related to this. In addition to the posting process itself, how do we do videos (and video links) in a way that does not stress Sparky's bandwidth.

Elwyn Aud · « **Reply #56 on:** May 09, 2012, 08:17:13 PM »

I don't know what's considered too big over on Youtube. I've watched a few videos that were over 1/2 hour long. That would have to be a huge file. Perhaps
larger files are permitted in some situations. I uploaded a file about 30 seconds long once and it seemed to take the better part of an hour. I believe a certain amount of compressing is done by Youtube.

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #57 on:** May 09, 2012, 09:48:20 PM »

Thanks Elwyn. Guess we'll start figuring this out. Anyone else, ready to offer further insight?

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #58 on:** May 09, 2012, 10:47:10 PM »

The upload limit of You tube has since been altered its now 2 Gig.

You can upload larger files - however they restrict access to those who have accounts which are verified and have good history.

2 Gig is solid.

Currently its only 15 Minutes - however you can also have that extended.

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #59 on:** May 10, 2012, 12:32:08 PM »

Thanks PJ for the heads up. I anticipate a deep technical discussion tonight at our weekly meet. As we chomp health food. Pizza, french fries, ice cream, plus beer.

Mike Palko · « **Reply #60 on:** May 10, 2012, 11:07:16 PM »

Enjoy....

Mike

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #61 on:** May 10, 2012, 11:12:07 PM »

Mike. You forgot the link.

Mike Palko · « **Reply #62 on:** May 10, 2012, 11:15:13 PM »

Quote from: Dennis Moritz on May 10, 2012, 11:12:07 PM

Mike. You forgot the link.

I was trying to embed the video so you could watch it without going to youtube. Although Stunthanger has the youtube icon which allows us to embed videos, it doesn't seem to be working. Oh well, clicking the link is just as easy.

Mike

Michael Boucher · « **Reply #63 on:** May 11, 2012, 06:41:50 AM »

Amazing flight Dan

Tom Niebuhr · « **Reply #64 on:** May 11, 2012, 07:15:53 AM »

Thanks for sharing the video. The flight was longer than I expected.
Knowing Dan, he will be the first to do the complete pattern with the jet.

Please say hello to him.

Eric Viglione · « **Reply #65 on:** May 11, 2012, 08:29:31 AM »

Amazing! I know that might not have looked like much to people expecting a full pattern right off the bat... but to anyone who knows jet's, that's quite an accomplishment.

I expect Dan's wheels were turning the whole time with mind toward what it would take to get more stunts out of the thing. You could see him stretching the inside loops longer and longer at the top inverted to see if the engine would stay lit... and progressively harder corners to see if the fuel slosh would shut it off in a square.

The trim discussion afterwords about outboard wing being up is probably also why we never see that outside attempted... but hey, we always want to take the plane home in one piece after a maiden flight, and I think this was one heck of an accomplishment in that respect as well.

I just know, if it can be done, Dan will get it to do a full pattern!
(maybe OTS pattern might be easier to try first, with only one square, limited inverted and no harsh outside corners, less total run time needed, etc. hint hint)

Great job guys! Definately want to see this thing in Muncie!!!

EricV

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #66 on:** May 11, 2012, 12:43:03 PM »

At 18 oz for 2 minutes of run I seriously doubt that enough fuel could be carried to get it through any pattern. Still having been there it was really fun to watch and Dan is to be congratulated for once again showing that the hobby should be about having fun.
Dennis

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #67 on:** May 11, 2012, 01:52:29 PM »

Danny, as it turns out, only burned 4 ounces of 87 octane on his last flight. On that basis we estimate he could run 5 to 6 minutes when tank feed (pressure?) is improved. Fuel consumption is way more efficient burning pump gas. Initial flights were made on witches brew. Propylene Oxide, methanol, and unnameable chemicals. (I just don't remember what they were.)

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #68 on:** May 11, 2012, 02:18:46 PM »

Wait, I think the jet used 6 ounces last flight, about 20 laps. 12 ounces to go. Pattern, 14 maneuvers, plus 12 2 lap, non maneuver laps, 36 laps minimum needed to do George's ritual of shapes. Getting close.

Mike Palko · « **Reply #69 on:** May 11, 2012, 04:44:05 PM »

Quote from: Eric Viglione on May 11, 2012, 08:29:31 AM

Amazing! I know that might not have looked like much to people expecting a full pattern right off the bat... but to anyone who knows jet's, that's quite an accomplishment.

I expect Dan's wheels were turning the whole time with mind toward what it would take to get more stunts out of the thing. You could see him stretching the inside loops longer and longer at the top inverted to see if the engine would stay lit... and progressively harder corners to see if the fuel slosh would shut it off in a square.

The trim discussion afterwords about outboard wing being up is probably also why we never see that outside attempted... but hey, we always want to take the plane home in one piece after a maiden flight, and I think this was one heck of an accomplishment in that respect as well.

I just know, if it can be done, Dan will get it to do a full pattern!
(maybe OTS pattern might be easier to try first, with only one square, limited inverted and no harsh outside corners, less total run time needed, etc. hint hint)

Great job guys! Definately want to see this thing in Muncie!!!

EricV

Eric,

Dan was being conservative not only because it is a new airplane, but because everyone expected the jet to shutoff at any moment. After a few flights he was doing continuous wingovers, round loops, squares, triangles and then finally flipped it inverted. Once the jet is running at the correct setting it doesn't show any signs of shutting off which is very promising.

The reeds always fail prematurely on Dan's jets for some reason. We're not sure if it's the starting procedure, the setting (rich or lean) or something else all together. Fortunately when the jet quits it gives enough warning to prepare for the landing. You can hear a distinct change in tone as the head pressure changes in the video.

The reason there were no outside loops was engine reliability, not line tension related. It has plenty of pull whether the outboard wing was up or not. That's 70oz flying a ~4.2 - 4.3 second lap (I'll try to get an accurate speed from some of the other video footage) It's needs the .021 lines it's being flown on!

Quote from: Dennis Moritz on May 11, 2012, 02:18:46 PM

Wait, I think the jet used 6 ounces last flight, about 20 laps. 12 ounces to go. Pattern, 14 maneuvers, plus 12 2 lap, non maneuver laps, 36 laps minimum needed to do George's ritual of shapes. Getting close.

Dennis,

I agree, it used 5oz to 6oz of 87 pump gas on my flight. Dan said last night over pizza the reed was damaged which may have contributed to the early shutoff or it may have even been the sole reason. With the quick laptimes the pattern shouldn't be too much of a stretch. I hope eliminating the change in head pressure cures the run. If that's the case look out!

Mike

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #70 on:** May 31, 2012, 01:31:53 PM »

Some additional history. I found these while doing research for my model building class: I was at the Air & Space Museum's library. I don't have a scanner, so I'll just quote the photo captions (someone remind me to bring the copies of these to Brodaks to give to Dan)...

Air Trails 1952:
"Dyna-Jet stunt model had all agog! Chuck Parsons, Redfield, S.D. flew good portion of pattern with special craft which had Super Zilch wing and half-pint fuel tank."

Air Trails 1953:
"Dyna-Jet stunter flown by James Beecraft, 14, St. Paul. Five ft.; 720 sq. in.; 12 oz. tank wedged at rear; symmetrical wing; 5 1/2 lbs."

Air Trails, December 1955:
on page 7 is a quarter page advertisement: "Introducing the Martin "Thunderhawk" Full Stunt Jet Trainer. After 8 years of experimentation Martin Jet Models of Houston Texas introduces to the U-control field, the fabulous Martin Thunder Hawk jet powered stunt plane and the exclusive Martin "constant flow jet fuel tank" $14.95." They also have a little box in the add saying: "June 3, 1955 Ellingston Air Force Base contest, Houston Texas. A Martin Thunder Hawk powered by Dyna-jet won 2nd place in the open stunt division, competing in the AAA event."

Did any of you guys attended that contest and remember this?

Dan oughta like this stuff.

Scott

Jeff Traxler · « **Reply #71 on:** May 31, 2012, 02:19:20 PM »

It's nice to see the Philly Fliers' mad(Crazy in a good way!!!) scientist is hard at work.Good thing he's on our side

.Can't wait to see it at Brodak.

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #72 on:** June 01, 2012, 06:22:59 PM »

Thinking some more about the 1952 Air Trails picture: does this mean that if we could get (first find!) the plans for that jet, we could build it and enter it at VSC?

Whoa!!!!

Scott

Mike Keville · « **Reply #73 on:** June 01, 2012, 06:34:24 PM »

Quote from: Scott Richlen on June 01, 2012, 06:22:59 PM

Thinking some more about the 1952 Air Trails picture: does this mean that if we could get (first find!) the plans for that jet, we could build it and enter it at VSC?

Whoa!!!!

Scott

Well, sure.....except that pulse jets are not allowed at our park (the VSC flying site).

Scott Richlen · « **Reply #74 on:** June 01, 2012, 07:13:41 PM »

Curses! Foiled again! Another great scheme down the tubes....

Larry Renger · « **Reply #75 on:** June 01, 2012, 10:06:53 PM »

How about an electric fuel pump? Or is that part of the R/C hardware I see? So, who is going to do a Dooling .29 or McCoy .60 Roadrunner?

Mike Palko · « **Reply #76 on:** June 13, 2012, 10:15:50 PM »

Will Davis updated the performance in a Brodak thread, but to keep all the info contained in one place I will post it here as well.

The jet now does wingovers, inside and outside round loops, inside and outside square loops, triangles, inverted flight, horizontal eights and possibly more. The flight tonight was a solid 3.5 to 4min. Although it was late in the day there was plenty of light to fly. Even with all of the available light the jet still was a very bright orange! It used about 13.5oz of gasoline for the flight.

Now to try to convince Dan to enter it in PA on Friday/Saturday!

Mike