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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Perry Rose on April 02, 2020, 02:14:29 PM
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How many competitors fly or have flown profile planes in the world champs?
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In what event?
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Precision aerobatics.
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I have been to most since 86, and have never seen a profile plane, not even a juniors!
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In 1960, the FAI adopted the AMA pattern, though they used a different set of maneuver descriptions and used a K-factor in the scoring of maneuvers. The K-factor thing was probably a holdover from the earlier period where a different pattern was used for what the FAI then called the world championships. The whole format for the CL World Championships was changed and it became a real world competition instead of being a competition for Europeans. This is when the F1B (speed), F2B (Aerobatics), and F2C (Team Race) categories were so named. (I think F2D, Combat, as well as the Junior category for each event were added some time later.)
Aeromodeller magazine provided extensive coverage of these early years of the World Championships with many pictures for each event and detailed descriptions of how each event progressed and many pictures. The American model magazines only gave cursory coverage of these events except for the outstanding write-ups that Doc (Laird) Jackson (many times Team Manager) wrote for the magazines.
I have a binder that contains the articles I have on these World Championships. There is no reference to anyone flying any kind of profile at these World Championships.
There were Championships in Europe prior to that time though a different format and pattern. Magazine coverage at that time (based on what I have from Aeromodeller) the stunt event was flown usually with smallish type airplanes powered wit 2.5cc engines, often diesels. By 1960, the Europeans were trending to the larger size models.
Keith
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,,,,, This is when the F1B (speed), F2B (Aerobatics), and F3C (Team Race) categories were so named. (I think F2D, Combat, .....
That should read
"This is when the F2A (speed), F2B (Aerobatics), and F2C (Team Race).... "
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FWIW
F1B Wakefield rubber models
F3C Heli precision aerobatics
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Not control line, but I flew in a support event at the 1988 World F3E Champs, here in the St. Louis area at Parks College in Cahokia, IL. The championships were for electric models and it was the second ever held. There was F3E that encompassed duration, speed and distance tasks, just like in the sail plane event. There was also scale and pylon racing. They had a support event called SunUp-Sun Down or Sunrise to Sunset or something like that. It was for teams with 7 cell electric models. I think we were limited to 5 airplanes, and the purpose was to keep at least one model airborne from official local sunrise to official local sunset. It was an interesting event, with lots of different design airplanes. Electric R/C was still pretty much in it's infancy, but rapid progress had been made in those days. It was quite fun, and our club,( that was the Mississippi Valley Soaring Association and the host club,) was sponsored by Airtronics and we were given 5 kits of their Edlipse 2 meter electric powered sailplane to use. We really didn't have much time to practice or evaluate the airplanes and mechanics, we just had time to build and finish them and a few test flights. The CD, Cal Ettel, had contacts wit Astro Flite and they supplied our batteries, if I remember correctly. First launch was at sunrise as noted and about 4 hours into the day, we lost the gear box in one airplane, and then a bit later, another. We had to change our tactics a lot in order to make the other gear boxes last. The best thermal pilots flew, tried to get as skied out as we could, and we were VERY careful on the throttle when powering up for a climb out. At Sundown, we finished with two airplanes still functioning. we placed, but I forget where. The neatest thing about a World Champs is meeting the people. I got to meet many legends of model aviation that week, like the Polk brothers, Mr. Graupner from Germany, Joe Beshar, Dave Brown (who was US Team Manager) and Walt Good was there and I got his autograph on the cover of the Model builder magazine that had the article in it about him and his brother. Another memorable thing was that I think this was the only FAI contest where there was a major rule change right in the middle of the contest! Technology was advancing rapidly and the US was way behind the Europeans in air frame design and equipment . At the start of the event, you were allowed only one climb out for the distance task, and they were flying newer, smaller models in Europe with bigger batteries that were designed from the start for multiple climbs and they came here equipped for that. They convinced the jury that it was a safety issue and the rule should be changed, and it was allowed. The US team was furious, and needless to say was not equipped or prepared in any way for this, and I think they flew the rest of the event under protest. It was an immense amount of fun and a whole hell of a lot of work. We beat out bids from California and Florida to hold the event, and worked for two years straight as a club practicing the timing and lap counting procedures until we could do it in our sleep. In the whole weeks worth of competition, there were no protests (other than the US over the rule change) and there was only one reflight given due to a local news station helicopter flying through our air space when it was closed, and almost had a head on collision with an Italian team model. We had no foul ups or mistakes in timing or officiating of any kind. I have some VHS video of the event I need to get converted to digital someday, and lots of photos also. The crowning event was the awards presentation, and the after party in the dorm that didn't break up until the next morning and some teams needed to get to the airport for their trip home! An experience that i'll never forget.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
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That should read
"This is when the F2A (speed), F2B (Aerobatics), and F2C (Team Race).... "
Bill,
Thanks.
Keith
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Hi All,
At the last world champs in France, the junior pilot from Sweden, Emil Palm flew a profile model. It's the first time I've seen a profile at any world champs.
Keith R
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The only top-level (National or International) C/L stunt contest I've ever heard of that was won with a profile model was the first-ever Gold Trophy at the British Nationals in 1948. The model, the splendidly-named Kan-Doo, was designed, built and flown by the equally splendidly-named Pete Cock, who in those days looked like everyone's idea of a mad young scientist. To fly a Kan-Doo with a 2cc ED diesel, on 50ft. piano-wire lines, and actually perform aerobatics, he must have been a brilliant pilot - I flew one on 40ft. lines in 1976, and could barely manage a single loop!
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What is the main reason that no one flys a profile? A stigma of some sort? an unwritten rule?
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Perhaps it's just that they just don't perform so well. Both structurally and aerodynamically. L
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Not control line, but I flew in a support event at the 1988 World F3E Champs, here in the St. Louis area at Parks College in Cahokia, IL. The championships were for electric models and it was the second ever held. There was F3E that encompassed duration, speed and distance tasks, just like in the sail plane event. There was also scale and pylon racing. They had a support event called SunUp-Sun Down or Sunrise to Sunset or something like that. It was for teams with 7 cell electric models. I think we were limited to 5 airplanes, and the purpose was to keep at least one model airborne from official local sunrise to official local sunset. It was an interesting event, with lots of different design airplanes. Electric R/C was still pretty much in it's infancy, but rapid progress had been made in those days. It was quite fun, and our club,( that was the Mississippi Valley Soaring Association and the host club,) was sponsored by Airtronics and we were given 5 kits of their Edlipse 2 meter electric powered sailplane to use. We really didn't have much time to practice or evaluate the airplanes and mechanics, we just had time to build and finish them and a few test flights. The CD, Cal Ettel, had contacts wit Astro Flite and they supplied our batteries, if I remember correctly. First launch was at sunrise as noted and about 4 hours into the day, we lost the gear box in one airplane, and then a bit later, another. We had to change our tactics a lot in order to make the other gear boxes last. The best thermal pilots flew, tried to get as skied out as we could, and we were VERY careful on the throttle when powering up for a climb out. At Sundown, we finished with two airplanes still functioning. we placed, but I forget where. The neatest thing about a World Champs is meeting the people. I got to meet many legends of model aviation that week, like the Polk brothers, Mr. Graupner from Germany, Joe Beshar, Dave Brown (who was US Team Manager) and Walt Good was there and I got his autograph on the cover of the Model builder magazine that had the article in it about him and his brother. Another memorable thing was that I think this was the only FAI contest where there was a major rule change right in the middle of the contest! Technology was advancing rapidly and the US was way behind the Europeans in air frame design and equipment . At the start of the event, you were allowed only one climb out for the distance task, and they were flying newer, smaller models in Europe with bigger batteries that were designed from the start for multiple climbs and they came here equipped for that. They convinced the jury that it was a safety issue and the rule should be changed, and it was allowed. The US team was furious, and needless to say was not equipped or prepared in any way for this, and I think they flew the rest of the event under protest. It was an immense amount of fun and a whole hell of a lot of work. We beat out bids from California and Florida to hold the event, and worked for two years straight as a club practicing the timing and lap counting procedures until we could do it in our sleep. In the whole weeks worth of competition, there were no protests (other than the US over the rule change) and there was only one reflight given due to a local news station helicopter flying through our air space when it was closed, and almost had a head on collision with an Italian team model. We had no foul ups or mistakes in timing or officiating of any kind. I have some VHS video of the event I need to get converted to digital someday, and lots of photos also. The crowning event was the awards presentation, and the after party in the dorm that didn't break up until the next morning and some teams needed to get to the airport for their trip home! An experience that i'll never forget.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
Dan,
I can assure you that those dorms were very well “broken in” and ready for your after party H^^
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What is the main reason that no one flys a profile? A stigma of some sort? an unwritten rule?
As you see from Keith’s picture, they do, but nobody notices because they are camouflaged.
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I think this is a kind of questions, as "why bear all Japonese and Chinese contestants white gloves and white, freshly ironed white trousers, during
their fligths?? "
There is no materialized reason, but some psychologic aspects: how to message that: "I am so precise in the air, as myself in my clothes, and my model is a state-of-the-art one... :)