A heads up about the Brodak Cosmic Wind Kit

[Mike Griffin]

The Cosmic Wind was the first model i built when i got back in to control line 20 years ago.  For nostalgic reasons, I am building another one.   The wing ribs have tabs on the bottom which I like because it makes it easier to use my magnets to build the wing.  When I had all the ribs in place and was getting ready to drop the top spar in, I noticed that the tip ribs were sitting up higher that the ribs next to it.  The Cosmic Wind has 20 ribs and the wing tapers in chord on a graduated scale.  I looked at the tabs on the bottom of the tip ribs and they were thicker in height than the rib next to it.  I had to take the tip rib (#10) and cut 1/32 of an inch off the bottom of the tabs so it would align properly in the wing.

I am assuming that there is an error in their die that caused this.  As a courtesy I am going to call Brodak and inform them of this but just be aware if you build this kit to be aware of this error.

Mike

[Tony Drago]

Mike you mentioned die. Are we to assume it's a die-cut kit.
If so it could have been one of the older kits that were die-cut  before Brodak switched over to laser cut kits. He sold off all his die-cut kits at a reduced price sometime back.

[Mike Griffin]

Tony, I apologize, that was a misspeak on my part.  The kit is laser cut not die cut.  I honestly dont know where the error lies but it could be that  the laser was off when they ran the ribs and they just cut the bottom tabs wrong.  I am assuming it just was not in the kit I bought and there may be lots of them out there that are miscut.  An inexperienced builder might not notice it and screw the wing up by gluing something in place and then realizing they have a problem after the fact. 

However Tony, I did receive a Lagg 3 kit just a couple of weeks ago from Brodak and it was a die cut kit.

Mike 

[Tony Drago]

Get ahold of John Parker. I don't know what days he is working due to the work restrictions. He's the one that cuts all the kits.
 I hear you on the inexperienced builder.

[Mike Griffin]

Thank you Tony.  I will try to contact him.

Mike

[Mike Griffin]

Get ahold of John Parker. I don't know what days he is working due to the work restrictions. He's the one that cuts all the kits.
 I hear you on the inexperienced builder.

Tony I talked with John this morning and informed him of the problem and he was not aware of it.  He had 18 of those kits in stock that had the problem.  It is a fairly easy fix for an experienced builder but it still needs to be corrected on their end.  I do not know what they will do with the 18 kits they still have in inventory.  Thank you for letting me know who to contact.

Mike

[Dan McEntee]

1/32" who cares.

      1/32" equals .030". If some one was machining something for you and there was a .030" error on a critical component, I think you would care!! If you don't think 1/32" is enough to cause a trim issue, especially if it gets built into the frame work, then that may explain why you have some of the trimming issues that you post about.
   
   Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee

[Mike Griffin]

1/32" who cares.

You know Walter, you never cease to amaze me with your smart ass comments and blatent ignorance.  You have no idea what you are talking about.

Mike

[wwwarbird]

You know Walter, you never cease to amaze me with your smart ass comments and blatent ignorance.  You have no idea what you are talking about.

Mike

 Some of the reasons he made my "ignore" list. 

[Richard Entwhistle 823412]

I am with motorman here..030" too much or too little in the main bearing in my car is a big deal.  The difference in wall studs is unseen.  If you get your microscope out you can find problems in every kit.  Die cut kits  have produced some great flying and looking  product.  Kind of cold to call him out with "trim problems"  Does all your product fly perfect right off the board? Any trimming is fixing a problem.  We have all seen the newbee show up at the field  with the unflyable flight streak but motorman is not that guy. You should try flying clown racing with him and see how well you do.  I think he trims a clown real good.  I would love to spend an afternoon with him sorting out my Nelson powered clown.  It looks to have a little more steam than the OS TZ .18
He is not a caveman because he has not won a prize at the Nats

Richard

[Dan McEntee]

I am with motorman here..030" too much or too little in the main bearing in my car is a big deal.  The difference in wall studs is unseen.  If you get your microscope out you can find problems in every kit.  Die cut kits  have produced some great flying and looking  product.  Kind of cold to call him out with "trim problems"  Does all your product fly perfect right off the board? Any trimming is fixing a problem.  We have all seen the newbee show up at the field  with the unflyable flight streak but motorman is not that guy. You should try flying clown racing with him and see how well you do.  I think he trims a clown real good.  I would love to spend an afternoon with him sorting out my Nelson powered clown.  It looks to have a little more steam than the OS TZ .18
He is not a caveman because he has not won a prize at the Nats

Richard

     To quote the Motorman; "Who cares?"

   While attending welding school, years ago, my first year instructor was teaching us about tolerances. Some one in the class was working on a project  and something was not according to the drawings. To make a point about making sure measurements are what they should be, he told us about his time working at a jail bar manufacturing company. Hi pointed out that if the distance between bars was too close it would leave an accumulated error and gap at the end of the length of the bar section of 10" or so, and if 1/32" at the beginning of assembly didn't seem like much to worry about, you could damn well count on a desperate man being able to squeeze through a 10" gap if it was presented to him. I'm sure that John Brodak took pride in his products, as evident in the many stories presented here of him standing behind and replacing defective products, and would appreciate hearing from someone informing the company of any potential problem. That is called quality control. The quality of the kit should be of such a level that it would give anyone building it the best possible chance of assembling it to a satisfactory level of precision depending on the level of a person's own experience and skill levels. Even for a sport profile kit, 1/32" error can be a problem. That was Mike intent with his post, I believe, and did not need any kind of sarcastic editorial.
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee

[Mike Griffin]

Thank you Dan, that was exactly my intent.  I actually called Brodak and talked to the gentleman who does the Laser cutting and he was very appreciative that I called.  He has made the correction so that kits that go out in the future will not have that error.  The way that the wing of the Cosmic  Wind profile is designed to taper in chord thickness, the spars will not seat in the tip rib notches, they will be too high. 

I Guess the old saying of no good deed goes unpunished holds a lot of truth.

Mike

[Richard Entwhistle 823412]

Mike

That was great what you did with Brodak.  Now anyone from 12 to 80 can build the kit correctly.  Maybe Motorman's dog had just chewed his slippers.  You used the "Art of kit building" to get around the problem.  Some people will never learn that.  In truth I do not think I have built a STOCK kit in 30 years.  There is always something to add or subtract.

Later
Richard

[Chris McMillin]

Are we speaking of the Scale kit, or the CG profile sport model?
Chris...

[Mike Griffin]

Chris, it was the profile model.

Mike

[Steve Scott]

Early in my modeling career I built kits as they came out of the box.  Some flew well, some flew like doo-doo.  I was probably on my 4th Ringmaster when I took the care to 'blueprint' the kit and ensure everything was assembled @ 0-0-0.  Turned out to be one of my better flying models.  I discovered a slightly heavy, straight model would always fly better than a light, crooked one.

[ericrule]

Hi Mike:

Now you understand why I keep telling you that "No Good Deed will ever go Unpunished"! There are some people out there that would correct the spelling in a love letter they received from Christy Brinkley.

[Steve Scott]

Hi Mike:

Now you understand why I keep telling you that "No Good Deed will ever go Unpunished"! There are some people out there that would correct the spelling in a love letter they received from Christy Brinkley.

When I was a cadet in my 6 week AFROTC field training program, we would get letters from young women of 'Angel Flight'.  I got probably 3 but never wrote any of them back - the spelling and grammar were so poor.   Of course, most of the women of Angel Flight were no Christy Brinkleys but I did meet and marry another officer I served with years later on active duty.  She was salutatorian of her HS class and had received a full scholarship.  I should mention she is a terrific cook.

BTW, the Angel Flight designation was dropped many years ago and became silver wings.  Both were affiliated with Arnold Air Society.

[Geoff Goodworth]

G'day Eric, my old colleague.

Loved your comment about Christy Brinkley — although I suspect that it ages us a bit.. I trust all is well, Geoff.

[ericrule]

G'day Eric, my old colleague.

Loved your comment about Christy Brinkley — although I suspect that it ages us a bit.. I trust all is well, Geoff.

Well "old" is the operative word. Since I am now retired it seems that the most exciting thing each day is that I get to wake up! (LOL) All is well, I trust it is the same for you too.
Eric

[Mike Griffin]

Well "old" is the operative word. Since I am now retired it seems that the most exciting thing each day is that I get to wake up! (LOL) All is well, I trust it is the same for you too.
Eric

You aint old, you just a "seasoned citizen".

Mike