Author Topic: A Couple Questions, Strega ARF / Saito .62, Lines Etc..... (Read 8588 times)

badbill · « **on:** September 06, 2015, 05:36:19 PM »

About to start on this combo, and I have read up a bit so I think I am ready. Even including 45 years ago, I never had a .60 size stunter. Will I need 65 foot or 70 foot lines?
I hear good things about the RMS lines, are they kits or pre-made?

Thanks guys!

Dwayne · « **Reply #1 on:** September 06, 2015, 06:43:02 PM »

Hi badbill, I assume you've been doing some flying recently?

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #2 on:** September 07, 2015, 03:41:02 AM »

I fly my Saito 56/62's on 63 foot Eye to Eye Tom Morris lines. Might want to start with 65's, you can always shorten if needed.
Tom Morris, RSM, Brodak and maybe others all have pre-made lines but if you do not yet know how to wrap your own, now is a good time to start.

Jared Hays · « **Reply #3 on:** September 07, 2015, 10:30:43 AM »

I fly my Strega on 64' lines powered by ST60

badbill · « **Reply #4 on:** September 07, 2015, 10:49:13 AM »

Quote from: Dwayne Donnelly on September 06, 2015, 06:43:02 PM

Hi badbill, I assume you've been doing some flying recently?

I fly all the time, ( Note my avatar pic ) why do you ask?

badbill · « **Reply #5 on:** September 07, 2015, 10:51:11 AM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on September 07, 2015, 03:41:02 AM

I fly my Saito 56/62's on 63 foot Eye to Eye Tom Morris lines. Might want to start with 65's, you can always shorten if needed.
Tom Morris, RSM, Brodak and maybe others all have pre-made lines but if you do not yet know how to wrap your own, now is a good time to start.

Thanks Bob. I have made lines plenty of times before, but I don't enjoy it and feel that the lengths will come out better with commercially made line.
Can I take it then that the lines listed on the RSM site are pre made ?

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #6 on:** September 07, 2015, 10:59:22 AM »

In case you don't already know: remember that the 70' limit is handle to canopy, not eyelet to eyelet.

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #7 on:** September 07, 2015, 11:08:22 AM »

Quote from: badbill on September 07, 2015, 10:51:11 AM

Thanks Bob. I have made lines plenty of times before, but I don't enjoy it and feel that the lengths will come out better with commercially made line.
Can I take it then that the lines listed on the RSM site are pre made ?

Really do not know, never ordered lines from RSM, might want to ask Eric.

proparc · « **Reply #8 on:** September 07, 2015, 12:07:59 PM »

Can't miss with Eric'c lines. I personally think they are the best. A ship that big and powerful for me personally, 70' center to center is the shortest I would go. Get that kinetic energy up.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #9 on:** September 07, 2015, 01:03:00 PM »

Quote from: badbill on September 07, 2015, 10:51:11 AM

Thanks Bob. I have made lines plenty of times before, but I don't enjoy it and feel that the lengths will come out better with commercially made line.
Can I take it then that the lines listed on the RSM site are pre made ?

I don't know if Eric's are pre-made or not. One really easy way to find out.

As a rule, I wouldn't trust the large commercial operations (like Sullivan) to make the ends right. They are always crimped, which is bad enough to begin with, and in many, many cases, they are not crimped "properly". In many cases they aren't within a country mile of the right lengths or of the same length. I always remake them.

The various cottage industries can be counted on to do it correctly, wrapped by hand one-by-one. However, I usually get the bulk cable from either RSM or MBS Model Supply and make them myself, using the Gerry Phelps end-wrapping jig. That way I can make them in the lengths I want (usually 1 foot increments) and make them *exactly* the same length (within 1/4) so they are interchangeable within ~1/64".

Brett

Dwayne · « **Reply #10 on:** September 07, 2015, 01:05:43 PM »

Quote from: badbill on September 07, 2015, 10:49:13 AM

I fly all the time, ( Note my avatar pic ) why do you ask?

Just wondering, didn't want you to bite of more than you can chew is all,

badbill · « **Reply #11 on:** September 07, 2015, 01:27:16 PM »

Quote from: Dwayne Donnelly on September 07, 2015, 01:05:43 PM

Just wondering, didn't want you to bite of more than you can chew is all,

In this particular instance I don't think you need to worry yourself about it.Thanks though, for being so helpful.

REX1945 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 08, 2015, 03:08:35 PM »

Quote from: badbill on September 06, 2015, 05:36:19 PM

About to start on this combo, and I have read up a bit so I think I am ready.....I never had a .60 size stunter.Thanks guys!

I have a Legacy with a Saito 56 (same as 62); and it is well matched to a plane that has 80 sq in less (63 Oz) .

I have a Strega kit (not built yet), and folks say to blunt the leading edge A LOT ! A blunt leading edge coupled with a 70 Oz
plane might end up needing a Saito .72. In either case, cut about 3/4 inch off the nose. I think Windy said that a 72 was the
correct 4s engine.

Rex

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #13 on:** September 08, 2015, 04:01:57 PM »

Hi, BadBill.
I built and evaluated the first Strega ARF. See my article in Flying Models, September, 2008.
I powered it with the SAITO 62 CL engine and it was a great combination.
I flew it for around 20 flights and then I let MANY people fly it.
The only complaint was somewhat excessive line tension.
I added around 3/4 ounce tailweight and moved the leadouts forward 3/4 inch.
That's all the trimming I did.
I built it exactly as it was sent to me. I DID NOT round off the leading edge but a number of people who did so claimed it improved the performance.
The flights were made with the SAITO turning an APC 13-6 prop, .018" x 65 foot lines, running Brodak 10-23 fuel.
Try and get a hold of the article. It contains a wealth of information, especially the sidebar describing the nuances of the SAITO 62.

As I don't care much for the larger aircraft, I donated it to a raffle at the Fly-In, raising some money for the Brodak Museum.

Bob Z.

REX1945 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 08, 2015, 04:19:08 PM »

Quote from: Robert Zambelli on September 08, 2015, 04:01:57 PM

....The flights were made with the SAITO turning an APC 13-6 prop, .018" x 65 foot lines, running Brodak 10-23 fuel......

The fuel may make a difference; I use 15-23 Wildcat and always throw away the Saito glow plug and replace it
with an OS "F" plug. I'm surprised the 4s doesn't (unexpectedly) quit using 10% fuel. Maybe it's more the plug....

Rex

badbill · « **Reply #15 on:** September 09, 2015, 06:34:33 PM »

Thanks for all the replies guys. The .62 I have has had the carb converted by Lee machine, I have no doubt it will be a excellent performer. My experience in the past with Saitos leads me to start with Cool Power 20% Heli fuel,OS type F plug, and I'll go from there. Going to order some 65" lines from Tom Morris and try those first. On vacation for about 5 days so I hope to get a good start on assembling it.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #16 on:** September 09, 2015, 08:21:51 PM »

Quote from: Robert Zambelli on September 08, 2015, 04:01:57 PM

I built it exactly as it was sent to me. I DID NOT round off the leading edge but a number of people who did so claimed it improved the performance.

Improved the performance, and probably the longevity. As it came it was *going* to get crashed in relatively short order at competitive sizes and corners. ARF-Off Unknown Pilots #1 (as owner) and #2 (as assistant) also built it with essentially no modifications, too with an engine considerably stouter than a Saito 62. In morning conditions of maybe 75 degrees, negligible humidity, and sea level, it would reliably stall and roll 45+ degrees on the third corner of the triangle unless the corners were backed off drastically from competitive sizes, or the shape was compromised. Later in the day, in the low-mid-90s in otherwise similar conditions, it got much worse to the point it was stalling in round maneuvers, particularly, entering the 4th loop of the 4-leaf. It could be avoided but only with significant compromises in the accuracy. Not to be controversial but it wasn't a close call.

The difference in the results can probably be attributed to the Unknown Pilots, with 5 national championships between them, were able/willing/knew to fly it closer to competitive dimensions that your other test pilots. Unknown Pilot #1 in particular is known as a real "stick man" and was better able to fudge around the issue than Unknown Pilot #2. Unknown Pilot #2 won, narrowly, because he was willing to risk crashing it, even though it came close to crashing outboard-wingtip-first at the bottom of every square maneuver.

Rounding off the LE seemed to completely remove the issue in similar conditions a week or so later. It is possible that it could have been corrected in other ways, like turbulators to get the air around the high point of the strangely-shaped airfoil, but that wasn't what we tried. A few weeks later I compared the ARF to the Strega Kent Tysor flew at the Team Trials and it was drastically more blunt. The ARF comes essentially to a point, Kent's was more like 1/2" or more radius, which is very blunt by almost any standards. It flew fine.

It's a minor issue to fix. You already didn't spend months building the airplane, 10 minutes to round off the LE isn't a huge problem.

Brett

badbill · « **Reply #17 on:** November 10, 2015, 09:16:20 AM »

As is typical for me, I am just now getting a good start on the plane. The motor mounting went well, but what are folks doing about the crankcase vent ? It ends up in quite an inconvenient place...

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #18 on:** November 10, 2015, 09:27:36 AM »

Put a piece of fuel line on it to vent it outside the fuselage. This is also where you should squirt a little after run oil when you are going to put it up.

badbill · « **Reply #19 on:** November 10, 2015, 01:07:09 PM »

Quote from: Bob Reeves on November 10, 2015, 09:27:36 AM

Put a piece of fuel line on it to vent it outside the fuselage. This is also where you should squirt a little after run oil when you are going to put it up.

Have you assembled one of these ARF's Bob? It isn't going to be quite that easy. The nipple ends up pointing straight up into the balsa nose block. Having the tube go straight up out the top of the plane doesn't appeal to me very much, plus it really would leave the top of the plane a mess. There really isn't even room to make a hole and run tubing down to the bottom or side. FYI, about the 20th Saito I have owned and flown.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #20 on:** November 10, 2015, 01:28:01 PM »

I don't have the ARF, but i believe the kit ends up very similar in that spot. I gently pushed the engine up to indent the wood. Then i put a little sanding drum on my dremel. I just made a little "bath tub" that clears the vent without touching anywhere. Then a little clear dope to seal it up.
Hope that helps!

badbill · « **Reply #21 on:** November 10, 2015, 01:43:12 PM »

Quote from: Dane Martin on November 10, 2015, 01:28:01 PM

I don't have the ARF, but i believe the kit ends up very similar in that spot. I gently pushed the engine up to indent the wood. Then i put a little sanding drum on my dremel. I just made a little "bath tub" that clears the vent without touching anywhere. Then a little clear dope to seal it up.
Hope that helps!

Dang Dane, that is EXACTLY what I have done right now! I just wanted to do something to keep it from just spewing all over the inside of the compartment. Guess I'm looking for a magic bullet what ain't there

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #22 on:** November 10, 2015, 01:55:02 PM »

That nipple unscrews, I have cut them off and soldered in a piece of 1/8 tubing bent in a 90 to give me clearance for the fuel tubing. If you mess it up they are available from Horizon.

Dane Martin · « **Reply #23 on:** November 10, 2015, 01:56:50 PM »

Good point. I'm useless to an answer for that!

Did you see the twister i got from you after i finished it up?

badbill · « **Reply #24 on:** November 10, 2015, 02:16:15 PM »

Quote from: Dane Martin on November 10, 2015, 01:56:50 PM

Good point. I'm useless to an answer for that!

Did you see the twister i got from you after i finished it up?

Man, that is sweet! Dang, you are just a young pup!

Dane Martin · « **Reply #25 on:** November 10, 2015, 02:22:38 PM »

Lol, well get that stunt ship done and come to las Vegas. I need some one to fly combat with... !

peabody · « **Reply #26 on:** November 11, 2015, 06:12:30 AM »

Bill....remember that the Strega, in almost ANY permutation, is a big, heavy, plane. Flying it too slowly will result in a crash....Windy usually flew on 64' eye to eye lines, and did about 5.1 or 5.2 second laps.....
Have fun!

badbill · « **Reply #27 on:** November 11, 2015, 07:06:04 AM »

Quote from: peabody on November 11, 2015, 06:12:30 AM

Bill....remember that the Strega, in almost ANY permutation, is a big, heavy, plane. Flying it too slowly will result in a crash....Windy usually flew on 64' eye to eye lines, and did about 5.1 or 5.2 second laps.....
Have fun!

I got some 65' eyelet to eyelet lines. With the Saito .62 I think it will be just fine

Quote from: Bob Reeves on November 10, 2015, 01:55:02 PM

That nipple unscrews, I have cut them off and soldered in a piece of 1/8 tubing bent in a 90 to give me clearance for the fuel tubing. If you mess it up they are available from Horizon.

Best suggestion yet, I think I'll give it a shot! Thanks.

badbill · « **Reply #28 on:** November 13, 2015, 08:52:07 AM »

Hey, I saw mention on one of the threads about using a 5 oz clunk tank in this plane, but it seems like a real tight space... what tank will fit good?

Thanks in advance!

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #29 on:** November 13, 2015, 09:09:03 AM »

I use a Sullivan 4 ounce for my 56's and 62's, do not use the one with the slant front, it only holds about 3 1/2 ounces even though it's sold as a 4 ounce tank. The one that looks like a bottle works well. I use an old crank fuel pump and usually take 4 to 6 cranks back out after it's full.

badbill · « **Reply #30 on:** December 19, 2015, 01:56:50 PM »

Well, all the little issues are solved. Everything is done and ready to go fly! Balance is dead on where the manual indicates with no added weight. Turned out pretty good.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #31 on:** December 20, 2015, 06:29:28 PM »

If she flies as well as she looks, you have a winner.

badbill · « **Reply #32 on:** March 07, 2016, 08:14:02 AM »

Well, I finally got the chance, and flew this yesterday. Awesome plane motor combination, it flew very well. The 65' lines seem just right, and everyone who said it pulls like a horse were right too

Still running rich and it has great power. Love it!

Shug Emery · « **Reply #33 on:** March 07, 2016, 08:29:15 AM »

Quote from: badbill on March 07, 2016, 08:14:02 AM

Well, I finally got the chance, and flew this yesterday. Awesome plane motor combination, it flew very well. The 65' lines seem just right, and everyone who said it pulls like a horse were right too Still running rich and it has great power. Love it!

Great to hear that. Got mine out to get done by Spring. Got an Enya .61 for it.
Shug

badbill · « **Reply #34 on:** March 07, 2016, 09:16:18 AM »

Quote from: Shug Emery on March 07, 2016, 08:29:15 AM

Great to hear that. Got mine out to get done by Spring. Got an Enya .61 for it.
Shug

Shug, don't forget to blunt the leading edge. I actually started on the bottom, cut and peeled the covering back. Carved, shaped and sanded, cleaned it up the ironed the covering back down. Turned out good.

Shug Emery · « **Reply #35 on:** March 07, 2016, 10:55:16 AM »

Quote from: badbill on March 07, 2016, 09:16:18 AM

Shug, don't forget to blunt the leading edge. I actually started on the bottom, cut and peeled the covering back. Carved, shaped and sanded, cleaned it up the ironed the covering back down. Turned out good.

Yessir....done did!
Shug

badbill · « **Reply #36 on:** March 07, 2016, 01:50:25 PM »

That's the ticket Shug! BTW, it was pretty cool after hearing about everyone chopping the noses off, adding tailweight etc., that mine balanced great with the Saito