A call for civility

[johnt4051]

After seeing a different thread on this forum devolve into a name-calling exchange among people who should be friends and colleagues in the hobby over a topic completely unrelated to model airplanes, I feel compelled to make the following observation:

A big problem facing this country is not extreme liberals trying to take all our guns away, nor is it right-wing gun nuts trying to make sure that every person is armed to the teeth with lethal weapons.  The problem is people saying things like that without thinking.

We’ve become a society that spouts extremist slogans instead of engaging in informed conversation.  We speak without thinking about what we’re saying, and we react to what others say without thinking about the points they are making.  We are using rhetoric without context, and the result is no movement in the direction of truth or to solutions to the problems we are addressing.

To take the case above, the truth is attainable somewhere between the two extreme points.  No reasonable person would suggest that all our guns be taken away.  No reasonable person would suggest that every criminal and lunatic should be able to carry a military assault rifle.  But people have legitimate arguments to make in favor of measures to control gun violence -- and to preserve our constitutional rights.

Reasonable people hear and consider the arguments on both sides.

And they do it in an appropriate forum -- not in a place where we talk about model airplanes.

If we’re going to think about the Founding Fathers and what they intended when they wrote the Constitution and its amendments, let’s think about the fundamental principal underlying it all: The spirit of informed discourse and ultimate compromise through the medium of a checks-and-balances system of governments based on a written constitution.

An old boss of mine in my first job, 50 years ago, had a saying that applies to the current situation: “Engage brain before activating mouth.”

What we need in this country, and in this forum, is a lot more engaged brains.

[john e. holliday]

One of many reasons this country is in the shape it's in.  People with the gift of gab and voters who don't check for the truth.

[tom brightbill]

Thank you John, spot on.

[david beazley]

Thank the current education system for no longer teaching critical thinking, and logic. 

[Shug Emery]

From my experience on Forums and You tube it seems quite easy to sit and type vitriolic rhetoric from the comfort of a computer keyboard instead of a face to face exchange.
In the words of Woodrow Call from Lonesome Dove......"I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolorate it."
Carry Forth.
Shug

[Ara Dedekian]

  "Reasonable people hear and consider the arguments on both sides.
And they do it in an appropriate forum -- not in a place where we talk about model airplanes."




        Thanks John for your wisdom and bringing a clarity of purpose back to the forum.

     Ara

[Randy Cuberly]

Wise words John.

However I would simply add that some arguments are not worth consideration and when they threaten the very existence of freedom they should be attacked whenever and wherever they occur.  The one you are referring to was one such situation.

Enough said.

Randy Cuberly

[Jim Carter]

   Now I know there will be those who will want to wring my neck for this one BUT ..... Don't uncivil people have the "right" to be uncivil?? Why not?  The rain falls on 'em just like it falls on the civil, right??  Some of the best and most lethal snipers are the ones who cover and hide the best and the same goes for those who post their comments and create havoc, yes??  no??      Sometimes it forces a change in thinking about an issue doesn't it??  Jus' wonderin' 

[proparc]

Very well said John.

Thank You for that!!!

[John Leidle]

   Hey John,
  about 10 years ago I said something like this on Leonard's board,, where pushing your personal views about the  county's problems doesn't belong with Ambroid glue.  The difference  is you are well read & an intelligent speaker I used my own short & get to the point of diplomacy. 
   This was very well said.
                              John

[John Park]

  Don't uncivil people have the "right" to be uncivil?? Why not?  The rain falls on 'em just like it falls on the civil, right?? 

How does that rhyme go?  "The rain, it falls upon the just/And also on the unjust fella;/But chiefly on the just, because/The unjust steals the just's umbrella."  No, I don't think incivility can really qualify as a "right".  It's just uncivil.

[RC Storick]

I have called for civility and I am glad some are speaking out. I don't wish to suppress anyones thoughts or views. The first amendment does not need protection from favorable speech it needs protection from unpopular unfavorable speech. So on some threads I let them run until I get 3 reports. (3 strikes and your out)

I have had enough of the bashing and putting down of people that don't know or have never met each other (keyboard commandos)

Just remember the problem is not "THEM' the problem is "US" and (us-we) are the only ones to fix the issue as a community. I can't do it alone.

[Target]

I must have missed something....
Oh well, I will survive without knowing what it is.
I will say that with the current events happening with the FAA and AMA and all, its a bit harder than it was before to keep politics out of modeling.
I saw a drone fly over a busy 4 lane main road in my LA outlying area today. Kind of caught me by surprise.

Anyway, this is a good reminder to keep things "not personal". We are all modelers, and some will have opposing viewpoints. They can still be our good flying buddies.

R,
Chris

[Allen Eshleman]

Well thought out John.  I am a political conservative who can't hardly bear to hear extreme conservative voices anymore.  Thanks for writing something that makes us think before we talk.

[Serge_Krauss]

John Thompson-

That was eloquently and civilly stated. Everything you said is valid and worthy of real attention. 'wish all of us could see that and not be so intolerant. Alas, the empty rhetoric continues. You have my thanks and support.

SK

[Mike Griffin]

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Abraham Lincoln

[WR Crane aka MrClean]

I go away for a few days and miss all the excitement.

[Andrew Tinsley]

This is a great site for model control line aircraft. Please keep it that way. I get tired of people making cheap political comments mixed in with model aircraft talk. Robert has made the point that this forum is to be non political. It is easy enough to understand this ruling, I wish moderators would delete these irritating political intrusions at the first opportunity. Those that persistently break the rules should be thrown off the forum.
There are plenty of sites that encourage political comment please post on these and NOT on Stunthanger!
 
Andrew.

[Bob Reeves]

It's real easy, simply do not click on the thread and you won't be bothered by what others are posting.

[EJN]

It's real easy, simply do not click on the thread and you won't be bothered by what others are posting.

How would you know a thread has run off the rails without reading it? The subject
line might not give any clue.

[Chuck_Smith]

All you need is love...and a SuperTigre .46.

[Andrew Tinsley]

Bob,
You never know when a political jibe is going to turn up in a thread, so you constantly keep tumbling across them. It seems to be a US thing, the Barton Control line forum has virtually no political comment, so why can't Stunthanger?
We all have our strongly held political convictions, but there is no excuse for it to intrude on the forum, especially as the site has a no politics policy, or am I wrong about this Mr Storrick?

Andrew.

[BillP]

All you need is love...and a SuperTigre .46.

Maybe a well broken in Fox 35?

[Mike Griffin]

Let me see if I can put things in perspective by expanding a little on what Ty said.  This forum, for the most part, is made up of older Alpha males, a lot of us being veterans who served in various branches of the service.  Those who are not veterans and are thinking individuals,  are just as patriotic as the rest of us and love our country and the principles on which Jefferson, Madison and the other founding fathers framed this country.  Not only do we have a fondness for flying model planes, but we also share a common bond which is a love for freedom, liberty and the responsibilities that go with it.  Is this forum a platform for discussing the Constitution and the Bill or Rights?  No it isn't but when someone makes a idiotic statement about the Bill or Rights or an individual amendment or anything that would undermine the very foundation of this country, then don't expect us to keep our mouths shut and not fire back.  Saying the second amendment is "CRAP" is just showing extreme ignorance and that person is living in an intellectual vacuum.

 I do not expect anyone who is not an American Citizen and participates in this forum to fully understand the sacredness of the second amendment or the United States Constitution for that matter but the reaction that Mr. Peabody caused by making such a statement is totally understandable even though this is not a political forum.  

I have shipped kits to socialist and communist countries and you would not believe what the guys ask me to do just so they will actually receive what they are buying and the corruptness you have to circumvent just to get a a model airplane kit to them.  Something we take for granted in this country, like receiving your mail, becomes a huge issue in these third world countries and dictatorships.  If you don't believe me, ask Eric Rule about shipping kits to countries like this and some of the horror stories he has to tell about trying to get merchandise to people.

Robert has created probably the best platform ever for us to share knowledge about model planes and for that I think we should all be very grateful and in an ideal world, we would expect this forum to be about nothing but model airplanes.  However, occasionally somebody is going to say something really stupid that is going to be impossible to ignore and somebody is going to fire back.  Robert has shown great patriotism and the patience of Job on here when these type of threads evolve and I think that says something about his integrity.  If it gets too far out of hand, he will shut it down, and he should.  

One thing I know for sure, I sure as Hell would not want to have his job or administrator of this forum....thanks Sparky.

Mike

[john e. holliday]

ME.

[Dennis Moritz]

Civility helps in most things human. Ideas. What are they anyway. Points of view. Shifting sands. One day there's patriotic fervor to invade a place. Down the road sentiments sometimes reverse. Years ago some of us supported an Alpha male look a like who said an invasion was absolutely necessary. Now many of us same folks support an Alpha male look alike who says the other guy lied and lied.

Personally approaching 69, I discover my Alpha not to be what it was.


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[Dennis Moritz]

Often I have felt the Alpha on these forums. Reminds me of my bad moods brought on by arthritis.


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[FLOYD CARTER]

Whatever happened to Alpha?  I used to be an Alpha Male, but now I'm pretty close to Zeta.

F.C.

[Dennis Moritz]

It takes a while to get down to something simple. True for me even before the onset of shrinking Alpha. Apologies for all those rewrites. One or two folks may have noticed.


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[DanielGelinas]

This is a great site for model control line aircraft. Please keep it that way. I get tired of people making cheap political comments mixed in with model aircraft talk. Robert has made the point that this forum is to be non political. It is easy enough to understand this ruling, I wish moderators would delete these irritating political intrusions at the first opportunity. Those that persistently break the rules should be thrown off the forum.
There are plenty of sites that encourage political comment please post on these and NOT on Stunthanger!
 
Andrew.

This is a great forum but I have to agree with Andrew!
Keep the politics out of the forum, no mater what the remarks may be.
Lets get back to our passion....
model airplanes.
Regards,
Dan