Author Topic: Peck "Esaki" Tissue (Read 9282 times)

Tim Wescott · « **on:** October 23, 2010, 05:09:01 PM »

I'm tissuing a model with some Peck Polymers "domestic" tissue, and man is it a disappointment. It's porous, doesn't shrink well, etc.

I recall the Peck "Esaki" Japanese tissue as being darn good stuff -- anyone know if it still is? I'd have some on order now if the computer at a2z corp weren't down, and I'll be calling them on Monday barring some really bad reports here.

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #1 on:** October 23, 2010, 05:45:35 PM »

Don't know about the Peck "Esaki" stuff, but he Esaki I have from Sig is OK------color fades over time from the sun. I have added a bit of color dope to the clear dope which helps add some "depth" to the tissue color.....

Jim

jim ivey · « **Reply #2 on:** October 24, 2010, 12:54:22 AM »

as i recall tissue would always fade after a bit of exposure to sun light. I used it quite a lot. I'm a freak for light airplanes. I've not tried the new stuff. from what you say I'm guessing Its plane old tissue , doesnt shrink well falls apart easy when wet? The old jap tissue was bamboo tissue, easier to handle. Shrunk well and didnt fall apart when you shrunk it with water. The other stuff would sometimes fall apart ehen you wet itand It would never tighten up and get rid of all the wrinkles regardless of how much dope you put on it. Sound about right? I covered that airplane I finished in 2007 with esaki silk, Whoa $50 2 yds. $5 worth of silk ? And the quality was poor. Not what i remember in 1961 last time I used it. jim

Paul Smith · « **Reply #3 on:** October 24, 2010, 06:37:19 AM »

Esaki is VERY popular in the world of high gumbandery.
They don't have to contend with the stresses, sun, fuel, and high finish expectations.

Our club is so "heavy" into this stuff, Mr. Esaki made a personal sales visit to our club meeting. They virtually dropped to their knees. There was no complaining about price.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #4 on:** October 24, 2010, 11:40:44 AM »

Quote from: jim ivey on October 24, 2010, 12:54:22 AM

From what you say I'm guessing Its plane old tissue , doesnt shrink well falls apart easy when wet? The old jap tissue was bamboo tissue, easier to handle. Shrunk well and didnt fall apart when you shrunk it with water. The other stuff would sometimes fall apart ehen you wet itand It would never tighten up and get rid of all the wrinkles regardless of how much dope you put on it. Sound about right?

Yup. Very painful to use. I'm planning on ripping it all off later, but for now I want something that'll fly even if it is wrinkled.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #5 on:** October 24, 2010, 12:11:03 PM »

The tissue from the art & craft stores is not the right tissue. Not even on solid surfaces. Best to go with the good stuff even if it may seem expensive.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #6 on:** October 24, 2010, 01:35:08 PM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on October 24, 2010, 12:11:03 PM

The tissue from the art & craft stores is not the right tissue. Not even on solid surfaces. Best to go with the good stuff even if it may seem expensive.

This is Peck "domestic" tissue, but it's about as bad as shoe box tissue for covering an airplane. If a2z corp didn't have computer problems I'd have some Esaki on order already; I'll be calling them Monday.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #7 on:** October 24, 2010, 02:26:27 PM »

A data point: Easy Built Models sells 'their' tissue and Esaki. Their comments about their own brand tissue indicate that it's not the same stuff as I got from Peck. If I can't find joy with Peck tomorrow I think I'll order from Easy Built instead, and try their tissue.

jim ivey · « **Reply #8 on:** October 24, 2010, 04:15:41 PM »

Tim , I found this online i hope it helps some.http://www.hiromipaper.com/newsletter/Planes.htm. is pleasing to me that the tissue I use on my handmade models is handmade by maybe only one man. Quite a change from years ago when there must have been many more paper makers. Thank you Mr. Ozaki.

For more information please contact: John Morrill 143 Richmond St.,

El Segundo, CA 90245 (310) 322-7858

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #9 on:** October 24, 2010, 04:24:22 PM »

Quote from: jim ivey on October 24, 2010, 04:15:41 PM

Tim , I found this online i hope it helps some.http://www.hiromipaper.com/newsletter/Planes.htm. is pleasing to me that the tissue I use on my handmade models is handmade by maybe only one man. Quite a change from years ago when there must have been many more paper makers. Thank you Mr. Ozaki.

In my searches today I also found the english-language pages for Esaki: http://www.esaki-model.com/english_html/plyspan.html. I really like their "collaboration" page -- too bad I don't travel to Japan, or I'd get my airplane calligraphed!

George · « **Reply #10 on:** October 25, 2010, 08:04:33 PM »

I wonder if we all are speaking the same language? I have often heard of silkspan referred to as "tissue", and many of us apply it wet.

Japanese and other real tissue (at least the kind I've used) is usually applied dry and is usually "misted" lightly to get it damp so it will shrink. Usually the mist is sprayed ABOVE the tissue and allowed to drop onto it.

With all tissue and some silkspan it is very important to get the grain right.

George

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #11 on:** October 25, 2010, 08:36:43 PM »

Yup, I know silkspan. I have some. It's different than the crap tissue that I'm talking about. If you ever pulled the tissue out of a box of shoes, asked yourself "could I cover a model with this?" and tried it -- that's what I'm dealing with. It's not like the super-cool Esaki tissue, or even the tissue that used to come in Comet kits.

At any rate, I've ordered some tissue from Easy Built, both their house brand and some Esaki -- soon I'll know if their $0.60/sheet tissue is worth the pennies!

George · « **Reply #12 on:** October 26, 2010, 03:41:19 PM »

A few years ago someone posted having decent luck with the colored tissue from Hallmark. I have no idea if that's still true or just a "batch at the moment", but I guess it's best to stick with a known source. I did not try it.

George

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #13 on:** November 03, 2010, 07:27:16 PM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on October 24, 2010, 02:26:27 PM

A data point: Easy Built Models sells 'their' tissue and Esaki. Their comments about their own brand tissue indicate that it's not the same stuff as I got from Peck. If I can't find joy with Peck tomorrow I think I'll order from Easy Built instead, and try their tissue.

Update:

Esaki tissue is still Esaki tissue. I just finished covering a Comet Gull wing (I know -- not CL), and it works as well as I remembered.

I also made up a little 12-inch span test wing to cover with the Easy Built 'cheap' tissue. It's way better than the other stuff I have -- it doesn't shrink up nearly as nicely as the Esaki, but it does shrink up where the stuff from my LHS barely shrank at all, and repeated applications of 70% isopropyl alcohol gets a bit more shrinkage each time.

The Esaki tissue is probably three times more expensive, and their white isn't really fully white, but I'll probably use it anyway -- I build for fun, and it's a joy to work with. But I'm not sneezing at the stuff from Easy Built -- it's nice tissue, it's just not great tissue like Esaki.

Kim Mortimore · « **Reply #14 on:** November 04, 2010, 03:46:01 AM »

Here are some interesting looking tissues, Japanese and synthetic:

http://www.faimodelsupply.com/FAI6-COVER.htm

I'm curious if anyone has experience with Lite Span. I like the idea of a lightweight, dopeless, heat-shrink, fuelproof covering for open bays that looks like tissue rather than plastic film. I asked if it is similar to Coverlite, which a few people have tried without great success, but they hadn't heard of it.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #15 on:** November 04, 2010, 07:52:22 AM »

I cover all my 1/2A models with Coverlite. It is tough, easy to work with and totally fuelproof. Yes, you do need to know proper shrink-film covering techniques. Fay Stilley's books are excellent tutorials (Get them from Model Airplane News) I have one model that is 4 years old, and the covering is still good...and tight! Lite Span is the same stuff. Don't dope Coverlite, it makes it brittle.

AirSpan is similar, but lighter and a bit porous, you need a coat of dope to seal it.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #16 on:** November 04, 2010, 08:53:03 AM »

Quote from: Kim Mortimore on November 04, 2010, 03:46:01 AM

I'm curious if anyone has experience with Lite Span. I like the idea of a lightweight, dopeless, heat-shrink, fuelproof covering for open bays that looks like tissue rather than plastic film. I asked if it is similar to Coverlite, which a few people have tried without great success, but they hadn't heard of it.

I've used Polyspan, which has a smooth side and a fibrous side. The fibrous side looks a lot like doped tissue.

Quote from: Larry Renger on November 04, 2010, 07:52:22 AM

I cover all my 1/2A models with Coverlite. It is tough, easy to work with and totally fuelproof. Yes, you do need to know proper shrink-film covering techniques. Fay Stilley's books are excellent tutorials (Get them from Model Airplane News) I have one model that is 4 years old, and the covering is still good...and tight! Lite Span is the same stuff. Don't dope Coverlite, it makes it brittle.

AirSpan is similar, but lighter and a bit porous, you need a coat of dope to seal it.

I recently got turned on to covering all-solid 1/2A models with tissue to quickly seal the wood grain. It works a treat with Esaki tissue, but the crap stuff that I got from the local HS wouldn't even do that. This tissue is probably going to find it's way to small RC and freeflight models more than control line, because for them I'm probably going to use Polyspan (or Lite Span or Coverite).

Kim Mortimore · « **Reply #17 on:** November 04, 2010, 08:41:44 PM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on November 04, 2010, 07:52:22 AM

I cover all my 1/2A models with Coverlite. It is tough, easy to work with and totally fuelproof. Yes, you do need to know proper shrink-film covering techniques. Fay Stilley's books are excellent tutorials (Get them from Model Airplane News) I have one model that is 4 years old, and the covering is still good...and tight! Lite Span is the same stuff. Don't dope Coverlite, it makes it brittle.

AirSpan is similar, but lighter and a bit porous, you need a coat of dope to seal it.

Larry,
Thanks for the info. I appreciate the help. I have contacted Model Airplane News about the tutorial books. Questions:

The Coverlite instuctions say use either Coverlite Adhesive or Balsarite. I have also heard that thinned aliphatic resin glue works well using the same method: let it dry, then iron on. What adhesive do you use?

Do you use trim colors on Coverlite? If so, is there a paint other than dope that works, or do you use iron-on trim?

PS: Congratulations on your election to the AMA Hall of Fame!

Larry Renger · « **Reply #18 on:** November 05, 2010, 12:55:59 AM »

Thanks for the good wishes!

I haven't found the ultimate answer for trimming Coverlite. I think that a good mask with sprayed Lusterkote may be the answer, and that is what I will try next. Andy Clancy, he of Lazy Bee fame, used Balsarite brushed on his trim material to iron it down over the basic covering. I have not had great success with that myself. Neither have decals decided to stay attached for long. Labels lasted longer, but eventually started to pull up and needed CA to keep them down.

If anyone out there has an answer to the deco problem, eager minds want to know!

I stick the stuff down with Balsarite smuggled in from Arizona. However I have heard that thick Nitrate dope and aliphatic glue work. I haven't tried them, but a test panel or two would certainly be easy enough to make. Let us know!

Kim Mortimore · « **Reply #19 on:** November 05, 2010, 01:12:33 AM »

Quote from: Larry Renger on November 05, 2010, 12:55:59 AM

...I stick the stuff down with Balsarite smuggled in from Arizona. However I have heard that thick Nitrate dope and aliphatic glue work. I haven't tried them, but a test panel or two would certainly be easy enough to make. Let us know! S?P

Will do. Thanks.