A .40 size Williams Ringmaster

[Mike Griffin]

Before I ask this question, I am aware there has been discussion about whether enlarged sizes of the Williamson Ringmaster would be Old Time Legal or not and that is an issue that I do not want to get into by posting this question.   Please put that aside for a moment and just give me some feedback on this question:

Is there any interest in a .40 size Williamson Ringmaster kit?  

Thanks
Mike

[Allan Perret]

So, what is a "Williams" Ringmaster ?    Any pictures ?

[John Stiles]

So, what is a "Williams" Ringmaster ?    Any pictures ?

I agree, I guess I've never seen one...did a web search; no joy.

[John Craig]

http://www.builtrightflyright.com/New_Web_Pgs/kits/WilliamsonRingmaster/WilliamsonlRingmaster.htm

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2765

Here they talk about what size might be legal in OTS

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=18498.0

Sounds legal to me.

[Allan Perret]

The Umland link shows the Williamson Ringmaster was designed in '47. 

Does that put it before the Matt Kania S-1 ?

[Mike Griffin]

Ty the original size was a .25 size which is fine however based on sales (I am told) , .40 size kit models sell much better than the .25 size. One exception being the S1 Ringmaster which is kinda in a class all by its self.  This post was just get input from the possible availability of producing the Williamnson Ringmaster in the more popular .40 size.   There are plenty of the original 25 size out there I would guess.  This would be for the people who might say "Gee I like that design...I just wish it came bigger." 

There may not be a single person in the Control Universe who will want one, that is what I am trying to find out.  I thought the Stingray kit would sell like hotcakes and I got one taker for a kit... so what do I know...

Mike

[EddyR]

I built one long ago. Poor performer.

[Mike Griffin]

Here is another picture of it..

Mike

[Bob Whitely]

Those look nothing like a Ringmaster. Ringmasters have a tapered wing trailing
edge and a round stab. This thing just looks like an ugly Jamison. 

[rustler]

I think the Williams Ringmaster is in the Pampa Vintage Anthology.

[Mike Keville]

Actually, I believe that's "Williamson", not "Williams".  There have been a couple of those seen at the VSC in years past.  In fact, I seem to recall that Larry Foster once won OTS there with one of those.

As for an enlarged version being eligible for OTS competition: not unless photo or other documented proof can be shown that such a version existed prior to 1953 (as with the Madman 56).

[L0U CRANE]

I built a Williamson Ringmaster many years ago. Williamson also designed another model  -?Attacker?- also published in MAN in the OT era. Very similar, built-up fuselages, but different canopy placement and a diagonal spar andfar aft leadout placement in the Attacker wing, as I recall...

The problem with both was vertical weight distribution. Note the wart lifting the outboard wing in the second image of the ?purple? one? The wing was low, at the bottom of the fuselage. The upright engine's mounts were above the top of the wing. Made for a very small tank bay volume, too...

It needed more power than the ENYA 19 I used, and without the wart, the roll attitude in upright and inverted was so severely different that a good setting couldn't be found. The wart would probably cure that, but my model still seemed underpowered. Ted Snow flew an (?)Attacker at a VSC, with plenty of power. It did pretty well.

The pictures don't do it justice. It is a "cute" sporty-plane looking model, on the ground and from the handle. It would probably be much better balanced, vertically, with an inverted engine. That would allow a larger tank and reasonable vertical CG. ...OR, outboard leadouts with tip guides raised above the top of the wing... Either mod would be a long way from a decent representation of the originals.

Harry Williamson wrote several articles, mostly in MAN if I remember right. At least one article discussed vertical CG... Wonder what made him think about it...

[Jim Thomerson]

The Williamson Ringmaster is sometimes referred to as the "original Ringmaster" because it came before the later, well known Ringmaster.

[EddyR]

The purple one is mine and LOU is right on about how they flew. I had a Fox 35 and a spinner on it. I gave up on it and put the OK 29 in it to hang on the wall. It was clear silk when new.
Ed

[Mike Keville]

. . . LOU is right on about how they flew . . .
Ed

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Larry Foster might dispute that, since - as pointed out above - he once won Old Time at the VSC with a Williamson Ringmaster.

[Bill Morell]

Harry Williamson also designed the "Hotfoot" bipe. Don't know much about it but it looks cool. Got parts to build a couple of them..........some day.

Mike, as far as "kitting" one goes? Remember our phone conversation a few weeks ago? I say build one for yourself, forget the kit and just have some fun.

[Mike Griffin]

Bill I think you are probably right.  Eric and I had some conversation about enlarging it to a .40 size and the kit (if it was kitted) was going to be sold by him, not me ... I think he has a CAD file on it so I will probably just have him cut one for me in the near future for me to play with...  I think it is a cute looking little sporty plane as someone else said earlier in this thread....

Mike

[Trostle]

 Williamson also designed another model  -?Attacker?- also published in MAN in the OT era. Very similar, built-up fuselages, but different canopy placement and a diagonal spar andfar aft leadout placement in the Attacker wing, as I recall...

Lou,  You might be thinking about the Williamson designed Gyrator.  Same size and configuration and proportions, same upright engine, the canopy on the Gyrator was moved forward and the LG was mounted in the wing with much better placement of the wheels relative to the CG.  It had a slightly thinner airfoil.

I flew mine with an OS 25 FP.  It flew really well and I did not notice any "vertical CG problem" or else I was insensitive to it.  Placed in a number of OTS contests, including several VSC's.

Keith