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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: RC Storick on June 08, 2018, 09:36:50 PM

Title: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: RC Storick on June 08, 2018, 09:36:50 PM: https://youtu.be/ku8ulVRfdCs
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Andre Ming on June 09, 2018, 06:48:28 AM: What a great find! Thanks for posting.

Weren't the '68 Nats in Olathe, KS? Sure wish those combat participants could be identified.

Andre

Edit: Typo
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Frank Imbriaco on June 09, 2018, 06:50:44 AM: Olathe, Kansas. A hotter than hot week. Opening segment there's a kid from Rahway, NJ walking across the camera. I believe it's Wayne Colgan who flew Jr. Stunt.
Dave Gierke and his Novi stand out.
A friend and I took our first airline flight ever out to Kansas City from Newark, NJ and then rode a Grayhound bus to Olathe. We crated our models a week before and pre-shipped them via Greyhound and then caught up with them in Kansas City. The driver asked us what was in the "coffin". We loaded them in the belly of the Greyhound and deposited
them in the hangar at NAS Olathe. Slept in the mercilessly hot barracks and ate every meal at the Navy mess hall-very good chow. We were both 17 and did it all alone as our neither of our fathers had any interest in the hobby.
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Andre Ming on June 09, 2018, 09:22:05 AM: Hi Frank!

As a youth, I was so disgusted to find out the Nats had been at Olathe... just a few short weeks after it was over. Surely would have been able to talk my dad into taking me. (I was too young to drive at the time. Like your dad, he wasn't interested in the hobby, but was supportive of it.)

What friend went with you? Someone I might have heard of? Didn't you fly Fox powered Voodoo's at the Olathe Nats?

Would love to sit down with you guys again and shoot some serious bull about your memories. However, a return this year to NJ for the GSCB Combat Fun Fly is looking very doubtful at this point.

Andre
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Dave_Trible on June 09, 2018, 10:26:27 AM: Thanks for the footage! This was my first Nats- age 13. I live about 15 minutes from there now. A civy airport- no model flying allowed. Yes, the mess hall chow was great. Buy a $5 ticket, eat all week.

Dave
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Brett Buck on June 09, 2018, 10:49:27 AM: Quote from: Motorman on June 09, 2018, 10:34:07 AM
Unwatchable with those film strips scrolling on the sides.

Bob went to the trouble of finding and linking it, you get to watch a slow-mo flight from Gieseke at the height of his powers, and you are worried about a minor distraction? I think you need to adjust your perspective - rookies can really learn something from merely observing the masters.

Brett
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: John McFayden on June 09, 2018, 11:09:35 AM: Unwatchable .... place a narrow strip of cardboard or painters tape along the edge of each side of your monitor. The problem is eliminated.
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: RC Storick on June 09, 2018, 12:40:35 PM: Quote from: Brett Buck on June 09, 2018, 10:49:27 AM
Bob went to the trouble of finding and linking it, you get to watch a slow-mo flight from Gieseke at the height of his powers, and you are worried about a minor distraction? I think you need to adjust your perspective - rookies can really learn something from merely observing the masters.

Brett
I did the best I could with what I had. It was shot from a screen so this is 4th generation footage. I thought it would give the guys some memories. Sorry to anyone who does not like it. There is also one other option for those people, DIY.
Thanks Brett for sticking up for me.
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: peabody on June 09, 2018, 12:49:17 PM: I think you did a great job Sparky!
Thanks
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Frank Imbriaco on June 09, 2018, 02:37:26 PM: Sparky :
First time I ever saw any footage of the 68 NATS. Thanks ! I recall that a local news station was present. They filmed carrier the day I competed. I gotta go back and review it again.

Andre:
Too bad we didn't know that you were just around the corner. Mike Agranoff had his VW bus and drove us around locally- never saw so many corn fields. Mike was a character at all the meets, always dressed in a jumpsuit , even on the hottest day - he's currently a musician.
My high school buddy and fellow UMACer, Dan Domina , went along. We flew Carrier and combat, but didn't place. Dan was also into indoor and as I recall that he got a lift to some venue 30 miles away to fly stick. Years later, he was on the World's Team in Czech- competed in an abandoned salt mine !( lol.)
Too bad you can't make the Combat Festival this time around. Scarinzi slowing down( really, who ain't) but we get him pumped and the fun is non-stop just like when you and your wife were out. The peanut gallery still the same. We do all the entertaining with our flying antics and they laugh or critique.
Hope we can all re-connect !
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Brett Buck on June 09, 2018, 03:04:23 PM: Quote from: RC Storick on June 09, 2018, 12:40:35 PM
I did the best I could with what I had. It was shot from a screen so this is 4th generation footage. I thought it would give the guys some memories. Sorry to anyone who does not like it. There is also one other option for those people, DIY.
Thanks Brett for sticking up for me.

No problem, it was a very good effort and it has the Bear in it. Nobody asked for critical review.

Motorman demands superior quality and we are not in his league. Clearly we are in the presence of (exceptionally well-hidden) greatness and we don't measure up.

Brett
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Sean McEntee on June 09, 2018, 04:00:56 PM: Quote from: Brett Buck on June 09, 2018, 03:04:23 PM
No problem, it was a very good effort and it has the Bear in it. Nobody asked for critical review.

Motorman demands superior quality and we clearly are not in his league. Clearly we are in the presence of (exceptionally well-hidden) greatness and we don't measure up.

Brett

Give him the reel and see how it turns out....

Awesome Sparky! Thanks for posting!!
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Ted Fancher on June 09, 2018, 04:17:00 PM: Well, I know I spent a half hour or so with a big grin on my face! What looked at times like repetitionS of Bob's flights I don't think was--even though the starting sequence and take-offs were very similar (Bob's flights almost always looked the same from beginning to end...that's pretty much how you won a bunch of times then and now!). The second sequence appeared clearly under much windier conditions. The Nobler was flying faster, the little Fox was workin' harder and the team got a bit more corner into those tricks with angles in 'em too!

Loved it and loved the man. Thanks Sparky.

Ted

p.s. the pix of Dave Gierke (sp?) and his Novi and All American Eagle brought back fond memories of the '67 Nats that we had both attended in Los Alimitos. I spent a lot of time ogling the man's eye candy which might have been a factor in my later affair with red, white and blue paint jobs on semi-swoopy looking stunters.
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Eric Viglione on June 09, 2018, 04:33:43 PM: That was totally worth the time spent watching! I like the slowed down playback too, usually old film movies are a hair fast on playback because recording on a slow wind spring, heh. Awesome footage. Love the plain white tee's, the well dressed crowd in dress shirts, all the converse sneaks. Man that was fun to watch. Thanks Sparky.
EricV

Ps: watching on my IPad, you can just pinch zoom to a large enough size to eliminate the film cogs and it looks great.
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Dan McEntee on June 09, 2018, 04:40:23 PM: Who took the original Super 8 footage? Makes me wonder what other treasures might be laying in people's attic and basements??? There was a guy here in St. Louis avid free flight flyers may know, Carl Fries, who took color home movies of the Stix, Baer, and fuller meet here in St. Louis back in the early 30's, and they were just fantastic! I only saw them once at the first Kirkwood Thermaleer's club meeting I attended. It had footage of the indoor portion of the meet held at the old Arena, where the Blues used to play, and it was brand new at that time, the worlds largest un supported dome at that time. I would pay dearly for some copies of this kind of stuff.
Let's see, I think Picked out the following: Al Rabe and his Mustang, someone's Super Ares, gierke and his All American, Novi III and , Kostecky's Formula S, Palet's Playboy (????) a movie crew shooting perhaps an AMA film, and the WIND! Some times the rags hanging from back pockets were horizontal!

Sparky : I have some 8mm stuff that I don't remember where I got it but should have some stunt stuff on it. Would you want it to at least view it and see if there is anything worth copying to digital? I have no way of playing them short of finding a projector on Craig's List or something. Might be fun to watch.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: jose modesto on June 09, 2018, 04:52:46 PM: Did I see Jerry epteriz or the usa1. Thought the USA was 1969
The Bears flight was great. Consistent bottoms
Thank you Robert Great job

Jose modesto
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Trostle on June 09, 2018, 05:17:02 PM: Quote from: jose modesto on June 09, 2018, 04:52:46 PM
Did I see Jerry epteriz or the usa1. Thought the USA was 1969

(Clip)

Jose modesto

I am pretty sure that was Jerry Worth with his design, now called the Apterix. Bill Werwage was flying his red Super Ares. Werwage took some design cues from the Worth airplane that later went into the USA 1.

Jerry Worth had a tool box finished as well as his model. In a letter I wrote to a friend after that Nats, I mentioned that Jerry should have won the tool box appearance award.

Also, for the record, that was Al Rabe's first Nationals. He qualified in the top ten for the finals but had to depart before the finals started the next day - but that finals is another story.

Great to see the movie. Thanks Robert for your effort

Keith
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Frank Imbriaco on June 09, 2018, 05:26:19 PM: Yes, Jim Kostecky and Formula S were present. Eve before the Stunt finals, I wandered out to some far away runway after dinner at the mess hall as I noticed stunt patterns way in the distance.
To my delight , it was Kostecky and Gierke ! I must have read the 67(?) Novi III article in Flying Models a zillion times and here it was, right before my eyes and he looked just as he did on the cover of Flying Models. Not a hair out of place. Both guys were so nice to me and didn't mind one bit the pesky 17 year old kid drooling and chatting away.
True story : while inspecting the Novi, I noticed that one Luxon line clip was reversed. I said to Dave, "did you know that clip isn't locked that way ". He asked that show him what I meant and acted very appreciative. I believe he really knew which way it locked,but missed that detail that eve. But in true class form, he made me believe that I actually gave him advice. All of that a half century ago...
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Norm Faith Jr. on June 09, 2018, 09:46:41 PM: Quote from: Motorman on June 09, 2018, 10:34:07 AM
Unwatchable with those film strips scrolling on the sides.

Hmmm! I never gave it a thought. I was too mesmerized with Mr. Bob's flying and seeing Dave's Novi. (Notice my avatar?) H^^ H^^
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Charles Carter on June 09, 2018, 10:55:12 PM: Does anybody else see that this Nobler had a little down incidence in the landing gear arrangement. It appears to me the tail wheel wire is taller causing the front of model to be lower then the rear.

Charles
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Dan McEntee on June 09, 2018, 11:11:35 PM: Quote from: Charles Carter on June 09, 2018, 10:55:12 PM
Does anybody else see that this Nobler had a little down incidence in the landing gear arrangement. It appears to me the tail wheel wire is taller causing the front of model to be lower then the rear.

Charles

That's Bob Gieseke and that may be his original Gieseke Nobler? The story I got directly from George Aldrich at VSC on year is that Bob crashed his best Nobler a month before the NATS and called George in a panic to ask if he had a Top Flite Nobler kit he could buy. george told him he only had one and wanted to keep it but would lend it to him so he could make patterns and scratch build one. he traced the wing ribs with a ball point pen and that made them come out a little thicker. And Bob asked him what he could do about landings. Noblers have the landing gear a little too far forward and can tend to bounce on landing. George told him to just make the tail wheel a little taller so that the model sat level on the ground. And while he was at it, square off the top of the rudder to help make it present bottoms a little better. And the rest as they say is history. This might have been for the 68 NATS?? I don't know for sure.
Type at you later,
Dan McEntee
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: RC Storick on June 10, 2018, 01:50:07 AM: I think this is the Nobler they are restoring right now

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171214/f635c855036c3247ff1680e6ac28f7bc.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171214/198bad1de3843c805696a2642a0244bb.jpg)
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: M Spencer on June 10, 2018, 02:56:45 AM: Thanks for posting the movie , Robt.

Theres actually a trick with those old Bic Ball Pens , where you half engauge it , go out half a clik , that gets the required ' fat line ,
said in the day to be 3 / 32 . Which is what it gets , all round . If I remember right . Had sort of a stepped head at the end .
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Mike Griffin on June 10, 2018, 08:52:37 AM: Robert thank you for posting this and ignore the snide remark. If he received a love letter from Raquel Welch he would grade it for spelling errors.

Mike
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Les McDonald on June 10, 2018, 10:14:29 AM: I know for fact that Wynn Paul has dedicated his life to trying to find all those photos and films that were tucked away long ago so when something like this pops up it's just special for all of us.
That video is pure gold and I can't thank Sparky enough for putting it up.
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Jim Carter on June 10, 2018, 10:28:33 AM: ;D Wonderful! :) H^^
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Dennis Adamisin on June 10, 2018, 10:37:53 AM: What a treasure, THANKS for converting & posting.

Pretty sure that was Shultzie holding his Sting Ray. Kept looking in the background for people & airplanes. Gerry Phelps & Avian(?) chatting with Jim Kostecky, Norm Whittle, what looked to be Charlie Reeves' Messer-Shark... Looked like they were processing airplanes on the field - NOT nostalgic for that..!
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: john e. holliday on June 10, 2018, 07:40:47 PM: What a find Sparky and thanks for posting. 1968 was a steller year for as you guys will see in another tread why I only got to the Olathe NATS one day on a Wednesday. Visited with the Gerbers, Willman and Johnson Navy Carrier flyers as that was the event I would have been in if not for things that happened. Told my wife if the boss called I would have my excuse ready for him Thursday AM. I watched some of the stunt that day also. D>K
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Trostle on June 11, 2018, 12:06:10 AM: I am not trying to detract from the significance of the film that Robert has provided to us from the 68 Nats. However, I thought some would find it interesting about the notes that I sent after I attended that Nats in Olathe to a friend who was at that time a serious competitor in the LA area . These notes are somewhat edited from the original letter that I sent in August, 1968. (I was a bit younger then, this was my third Nats.)

"...Not considering the Los Angeles area, the only names that were not there were Silhavey, Wooley, Hemstrought, Sheeks and Ash. Gialdini is still retired from competition. Bud Tenny ran the event, is an indoor flyer and apparently did not know much about stunt, at least National competition type stunt. The way he ran the event left a lot to be desired and he made a few decisions that were obviously bad. Jim Van Loo is trying to get to be the event director next year. Part of the problem was not enough days, not enough Navy personnel to judge, hot high enough quality personnel to work the event, and Bud Tenny. The weather as probably you have already found out was WINDY. I put in a practice flight on noon Monday, the day of Senior, and was never so glad to get my airplane down in one piece. Gieseke watched me fly and decided that it was too windy for him to try. I know why Norm [Whittle, then a Senior] dinged his Playboy. On the outside squares, you start hauling full down and hope it makes it around. (This next week in Kansas, the weather is fine.) I am sending the results of the two circles used for qualifications. The order of the names is not necessarily the order the people flew. Processing was done on the field. This let some people get in their second attempt before some had even processed. After lunch, Gierki was in first place in out circle and I was 2nd or 3rd, Gierki's score was in the 390's. When flying started again funny things started happening. Some high scores ere posted on the board for really bad flights. Vornholt had a flight of around 416 which was all over the sky. Scores started being checked and different numbers were put on the board, so you did not know really where anybody stood or what the judges were looking for. (The general consensus was that the Navy judges liked the really low stuff. In fact, I think that is all they really looked for. The board showed me in 5th place so I needed to fly again even though I was pretty sure I would make the cut. My score did not improve any on my second flight. (It really was not as good as the first.) Gierki's score of around 394 was changed to 368 after recalculating. Vornholt's score was changed to 345. I do not think he was very happy about that. A couple of other totals were changed (not mine) and I ended up in 2nd place on my circle. Worth had a good flight. There was a flyer there that had a Nobler with monoline that clobbered on his second flight that was supposed to have over 400 points but it did not get on the board. I watched the monoline fly the night before and was not particularly impressed. (It did not groove.) Other funny things happened too. I do not know yet how assignments to the two circles were made. It looked like it was the way you got in line to process. Anyway, one circle started filling up with names like McFarland, Kosteky, Gieseke, Werwage, and Mathis without any names to speak of in the other circle I think I was lucky not to get in that circle. Tenny should not have let it happen that way, but I do not think he know really what was going on. Don Shultz flew there too and almost made the finals. People were talking about his flying which was supposed to have been pretty good. The only flying in the other circle I saw was Mathis and Gieseke and then not all of their patterns. They both looked good to me, particularly Mathis.

[There were two qualifying circles with no apparent method of assigning who would fly on what circle. It ended up that there were 17 pilots on one circle and 21 pilots on the other circle.]

Back in our circle, Bambrick had a new airplane. It was pretty and impressive in the air. Van Loo had a new Chipmunk that was about 10 oz lighter than last year. It looked a lot better in practice, but his officials were not as good. He was not happy with only the 26 points he got for appearance [out of 40]. I met Al Rabe there..[the start of a long friendship]. He had a semi scale Mustang in Cavalier colors that really looked like a Mustang. Dihedraled detachable wing. The airplane was really impressive. He is from the Dallas area. He said he flew it the first time at Olathe on Sunday, the second time Monday. It turned well and he did a good job flying it. [I got to fly that airplane in Olathe and was impressed.]

Jerry Worth had probably the best looking airplane there. At least, it was the best of the white airplanes with red and blue stripes. It had a conventional gear but somehow gave the impression it had a trike gear. 720 squares, 62 in span, Super Tigre 40 with rings - the old S.T. It did not like the wind as it yawed a bit.

Dave Gierke did not fly his Eagle with the throttle and brakes. Used his same Novi III from last year. He said that the Eagle just did not turn in the hot thin air. (Nothing did really) So, we did not get to see his thing. He was having engine problems and lost his bonus 5 points on both flights for qualifications. I really appreciated what he did for Norm Whittle. Norm had dinged his airplane, had it in the car and was not going to fly his second flight in Senior. Dave had him get the airplane out and led a team to get the thing glued together for his second flight that placed him in second in Senior. {a postscript here - There is a picture in the Flying Models magazine that covered this 68 Nats that shows Norm getting ready to start his engine for an official flight. There is a hand (mine) in the picture holding the tail up, supporting the stabilizer in the hope that the epoxy holding it together would set well enough to hold it together for the flight. The tail stayed together, but it was flexing a lot at the end of the flight.}

Charles Reeves was using the same Shark as 2 years ago. He is a good flyer but somehow did not perform as well during the finals.

Vornholt was flying a twin boomed swept I-beam affair. He can fly low.

Worth had the best tool box, then Gierke.

Gierke made a comment and it appeared to be true. You cannot use the same pretty white shiny airplane two years in a row. Somehow, they do not look as good. His Novi just was not the same.

[Note here - Qualification flights and finals were scheduled to be on the same day!!]

Finals were finally started about 5:00. We were at least an hour late getting started because of several mix ups. Too may people were on one circle so it took longer to get them through. And then all of the confusion of the score totals. Anyway, Tenny at least wanted to check all of the scores and it took time.

[Because of the unbalanced number of pilots on the two circles, it was decided that there would be 5 finalist taken from the one circle and 6 finalist from the other circle so there would be 11 finalists.]

Names were drawn for both rounds. I drew first to fly in the first round and last to fly for the last round. I started to get ready for my flight when a couple of the finalists came up and asked if I would be in favor of approaching Tenny to let us use our own judges. All of the flyers agreed but Tenny said no. So away we went. My flight was bad and was probably in the worst wind that evening. I ended up with the low score for that first round, which finished at 7:00 at which time, the Navy people left, including the judges. Tenny left too eventually and said he no longer had anything do to with the Open stunt finals. It all ended up that we would start all over on the finals the next morning using a different set of Navy judges.

Art Adamison volunteered to take over and did a creditable job. We drew for flight rotation for both rounds and I drew 8th and 5th. This whole thing worked to my advantage because I was in a lousy position and condition the night before. [NOTE: Jerry McMillan was with me that week at the Nats and helped me with my flights and did some coaching.) The scoring on the first round went pretty well. Jerry was able to guess the total scores within 2 or 3 points on most of the first round after he saw the first three flights. My flight went well but I have done better, ending up in 3rd place in that first round. There was a good point spread in the leaders. Gierki went up on his second flight and did not get started right away, so took an attempt. Worth put in a nice flight but do not know if it was better than mine but outscored me just the same. Werwage put in a so-so flight but got a good score. Reeves forgot to signal, at least the judges did not see him do so. My second flight was probably the best I have ever had in competition. It felt good. The wind was no problem, everything was right, both Jerry and I thought it would be several points better than the first but they scored it 20 points less. Kostecky flew by far a better pattern than his first but was scored less. McFarland had a lot of catching up to do and put in one of the best flights I saw that day and was not given what he deserved. Mathis was not up to par on either of his flights. He did not look like the same flyer from the day before. Gieseke's second flight was not as good as his first but still got a good score.

On Reeves' last flight, the judges did not score some of his last maneuvers. Charles said he did the whole pattern. The judges did not even agree on what maneuvers he did not do. Some people saw some of the ones the judges say he left out. He did not get to fly again. Gierke's last flight was not impressive. His engine was not running right for him.

For a national stunt contest this one left a lot to be desired.

Werwage was flying his Super Ares. [This was the first time I had seen Bill.] That airplane looked huge for the 40 he said he had in it. He looked good in practice. Watched him in practice Monday night. He broke a propeller blade on take off, engine still running, Werwage chases after model, catches model, tries to stop engine, breaks other blade off, engine still running, Werwage jams spinner into concrete, breaks off flap, finally gets engine stopped.

McFarland had built a new airplane but used his old Shark.

Kostecky had a shiny red airplane. Looked good in the air. Mathis was using his same Chizler. McKinney and Rabe had to leave Tuesday night so they missed finals.

Bambrick, Worth, and Kostecky got 37 points on appearance. I got 34 so cannot complain about that.

The Navy judges admitted to Adamison after it was all over that they did not have the experience to do a proper job to really determine the winner. As far as Gieseke winning is concerned, he deserved it as much as anyone. It is just that it looked like that McFarland put in a flight just as good. The next three places would be up for grabs and I will not complain about my placing.

1. Gieske
2. Kostecky
3. Worth
4. McFarland
5. Trostle
6. Gierke (tie)
6. Werwage (tie)
8. Mathis
9. Reeves

10 and 11 were Rabe and McKinney who had to leave.

[Note: If anyone is interested, I have the scores for the qualifying rounds, the aborted first finals round and then the actual final two rounds.]

Keith
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Dave_Trible on June 11, 2018, 05:50:43 AM: Keith that was a great read! It's amazing you still have, or could find it. This jogged my memory about the monoline Nobler-I'd long forgotten it. Never knew who that was. Any chance Dale Kirn? I'm wondering since you have Open results by chance do you have Junior and Senior? I flew Junior with my Ruffy, but have no memory of how I placed (low I'm sure). I think it was the second contest I ever entered. It sounds like one of our Kansas 'wind events' was going on. Every few weeks we have a patch of about three days in a row where the wind is merciless. Then it subsides and is decent for a while. Having one right now in fact. Of course they usually happen the week before the Nats.

Dave
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Out of the Loop on June 11, 2018, 06:52:02 AM: I went down and dug out this image from American Aircraft Modeler, December, 1968. It was their only image from the stunt circles.
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Trostle on June 11, 2018, 09:24:23 AM: Quote from: Dave_Trible on June 11, 2018, 05:50:43 AM
Keith that was a great read! It's amazing you still have, or could find it. This jogged my memory about the monoline Nobler-I'd long forgotten it. Never knew who that was. Any chance Dale Kirn? I'm wondering since you have Open results by chance do you have Junior and Senior? I flew Junior with my Ruffy, but have no memory of how I placed (low I'm sure). I think it was the second contest I ever entered. It sounds like one of our Kansas 'wind events' was going on. Every few weeks we have a patch of about three days in a row where the wind is merciless. Then it subsides and is decent for a while. Having one right now in fact. Of course they usually happen the week before the Nats.

Dave

Neither Dale Kirn nor his son were entered in Open stunt. I do not know the name of the person who flew the monoline. We saw Dale's son fly the pattern at VSC with a Nobler using a monoline some time ago.

1968 Nats Jr. Stunt 1968 Nats Sr. Stunt
1. Tommy Morgan 1. Robert Howard
2. Dennis Adamisin 2. Norm Whittle
3. Mike Gearhart 3. Phil Granderson
4. James Smith 4. Sidney Rowe
5. Tom Hartvigsen 5. Harold Theriot

I grew up in central Kansas. It seemed like there were only 2 or 3 days a month where the wind did not blow, and never on a weekend.

Keith
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Paul Walker on June 11, 2018, 09:30:47 AM: Thanks for taking the time to do this. Great to watch.
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Frank Imbriaco on June 11, 2018, 09:34:25 AM: Don't know if it was archived anywhere, but for 68 there were two Junior Stunt events. May have been the only time ? The usual with appearance points and one without. The one "without" had fewer entries, but a decent turnout non the less.

Wayne Colgan from Rahway, NJ won the" without" appearance points. I was there, helped pit him and remember him receiving the award. He flew a drab tan Kostecky Talon .
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Out of the Loop on June 11, 2018, 03:40:58 PM: There is more to the story of Bob Gieseke than just the Nats in 1968. He led the USA CL Aerobatics team to the team title in Finland that summer BEFORE the Nats. That little red Nobler was just about everywhere that year. The entire 68WC report is in the October 1968 issue of Aero Modeller. You can read it here starting on page 520. https://rcbookcase.com/data/media/6/10AeroModeller_October_1968.pdf
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Jim Kraft on June 11, 2018, 03:57:07 PM: That was my first NATS where I did not fly, but my whole family went and my four kids swam in the officers pool. What a great week. My folks still lived in Rowland Park so we had a place to stay. And my mom was a great cook.

Thanks for the memories. What a great week. I remember the last day we were watching the R/C pylon races when a strong storm blew in. If I remember right, they got all the planes down in one piece. But it was really windy. Pylon racers penetrate the wind pretty well and it is a good thing they do that day. We left shortly after as there were tornado warning out.
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Ken Culbertson on June 11, 2018, 04:25:12 PM: Quote from: Motorman on June 09, 2018, 10:34:07 AM
Unwatchable with those film strips scrolling on the sides.

Than don't watch it. If nothing can be gained by watching Gieseke fly then there is no longer anything to be gained. Obviously you did not know the man. I wish there was more.

Ken
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Doug Moon on June 11, 2018, 04:33:00 PM: 1968! That was the year I was born. ;D ;D ;D

This footage is awesome!! That really made my day! :) :) Thank you so much taking the time to get this on the site. Thank you!!!
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Ken Culbertson on June 11, 2018, 05:51:17 PM: Quote from: Charles Carter on June 09, 2018, 10:55:12 PM
Does anybody else see that this Nobler had a little down incidence in the landing gear arrangement. It appears to me the tail wheel wire is taller causing the front of model to be lower then the rear.

Charles
It was. He used a stooge a lot when practicing which will pull the tail down.
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Bruce Shipp on June 11, 2018, 09:28:34 PM: Three things caught my attention watching the Bear’s flight:

First, he used alligator clips on his glow battey and it appears he had a remote glow plug lead on the left side of the nose. Watch when he removes the battery leads and his left hand never leaves the side of the fuselage. There does not appear to be a battery lead connected to the glow pug. I looked back at the restoration thread and saw no remote glow plug leads but it sure looks like he was using one. Maybe it is just the poor resolution of the video...don’t know.

Second, when he walks to the center of the circle he turns his back to the plane and takes his pipe out of his mouth. Perhaps a final pre launch pipe smoke wind check?

Third, even though it appears to be blowing a gale and his landing rollout is down wind, he actually lays the handle down and starts walking to the model before it even stops rolling...it rolled an entire ship length after he put down the handle. Now there is a confident man who knows his equipment.

I only met Bob once at contest in Dallas. I did not know him well, but he paid me a tremendous compliment at the last contest we both attended while talking with my then teenage son. That will always be one of my best stunt memories. A true gentlemen.
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Dave_Trible on June 12, 2018, 05:03:42 AM: Very common in those days was to use a two volt wet cell telephone battery -military surplus I think- and put in really long wire leads. Just about everyone in my area used them. You used either alligator clips or the clothes pin type clip. The battery wasn't small or light so it stayed in the box. Likely Bob was using a tank vent as a contact point, wired to the engine inside. He may have rigged the other contact to something sticking out the side, with a lead to the glow plug.

Dave
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Keith Renecle on June 14, 2018, 03:46:26 AM: Thanks so much for posting this video Robert! I've been searching for some good movie coverage of the old stunt events. There are a few of bits of world champs that I've seen but none really show how good the guys flew back then. I particularly look for good flat pull-outs and neat bottoms but so far I have not seen any decent footage, so thanks very much for doing this for us. Even that short piece of Bob Gieske's flight shows just how good he flew.

The problem with the old cine film was that each roll only ran for about 4 minutes and that meant that you had to be quite selective with shooting a full flight for example. I have some old film of our '73 Nats here in Johannesburg South Africa and I bought 4 rolls of 50 ft. Super 8 film. It shows so little! These days we are so spoilt with shooting incredible video in high quality even on a cell phone! Copying the old movies onto video is a challenge because not only is the picture very low resolution, but the frame rate is totally different. Most of us shot movies at 18 frames per second. That was the standard silent film speed and at 24 frames for sound. Now, when you convert this to video running at 25 or 30 fps then you get some strobing which causes that flicker.

There are places that can convert movies to really good video and just lately I've seen a few home gadgets that you can make that shoot the movie frame by frame and the results are really very good. I have two old projectors and I will convert one of them when I get a chance. The best one I saw uses a USB microscope that shoots the frames directly from the film gate. The projector lamp is replaced but a household mains LED globe to give an even light. The motor is replaced by a stepper motor and the whole prociess is run off a pc. I have a box full of old family movies so this project is worthwhile.

In the meantime, I played with Robert's video a bit and used the slo-mo footage with the speed increased until it was just a little slower than real-time speed. This reduced the strobing to a more tolerable level for me. I also zoomed in slightly to remove the rolling film effect for those that did not enjoy it. I included the rat racing and combat. Here is the video link on YouTube below:

https://youtu.be/N2_E2U3KFsc

Keith R
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Steve Thompson on June 14, 2018, 05:49:05 PM: Gee, that Super 8 makes everybody look skinny and young...
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Keith Renecle on June 15, 2018, 11:43:34 PM: Quote from: Steve Thompson on June 14, 2018, 05:49:05 PM
Gee, that Super 8 makes everybody look skinny and young...

Yeah............they had great lenses in those days! Maybe we can find some and use them again?? #^
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Ken Culbertson on June 16, 2018, 04:41:47 AM: Quote from: Steve Thompson on June 14, 2018, 05:49:05 PM
Gee, that Super 8 makes everybody look skinny and young...
That is because in 1968 we were skinny and young!
Title: Re: 68 Nats silent footage taken from super 8mm
Post by: Chris McMillin on June 16, 2018, 09:06:27 PM: Even at my age at that time, I was amazed at the variation in scores when I had seen guys flying during the week when watching and launching for people. The judging was poor and once I caught on to the inconsistencies in scoring compared to the flights and knowing that they didn't give you a break for wind you could see the judges were over their heads. The night the Navy guys left I thought it was so wrong they walked away before one flight was over! ( I thought the Navy guys took their judging job was as seriously as the flyers did!)

Olathe was fun for me on a human level, pool, barracks, mess hall, but I just could not watch some flights when it was windy because of my 9 year old fear of seeing a crash! Dad talking Keith into practicing in a gale was horribly stressful, learning how to fly in Chicago i knew about the wind coming up and what landing it was like! Final Senior Stunt was traumatic for me because defending Champion Rick Loomis crashed his Two Bits push pull twin with an inverted flat whuump right in front of a bunch of us kids. CL Scale was a crash fest which entually became enjoyable after some of the kids lightened up the mood with witty jokes, one Curtiss biplane did the wingover into the asphalt vertically and the sticks and tissue nearly disappeared downwind it was so windy at times.

Personally, my AMA Dart was flattened by the wind when I carried it to the big event in the rubber flying hangar, I rebuilt it and came in 4th (out of hundreds!!) and got a knife, glue and miter box. I was about 200th in the brand new event 1/2A Profile Proto when Keith helped get me up to 55 mph after Dad bought me a new Tee Dee .049 for my Lil Wizard!

Wow, 50 years flies by...

Chris...