61 for stunt use

[Bradley Walker]

Is there a motor out there in current production that isn't a total boat anchor that could be used for pipe use?

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[Balsa Butcher]

Ro-Jett 61s can still be ordered through Jett Engineering. Enya 61 CXL-s' are still available from some vendors, Shttrman on E-Bay has some, he is the closest and is a reliable vendor. They are not currently in production but since Enya makes engines in "batches" more than likely they will be again and parts support is available.

[Steve Fitton]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ENYA-61CXL-S-PRO-RED-HEAD-REAR-EXHAUST-HIGH-PERFORMANCE-C-L-NIB-/221890907238?hash=item33a9ba8c66

I think Randy has headers for these things, there are a couple of reviews and setup threads in the engine section. 

That, or wait for development to finish and production to ramp up on the Kaz 77.

[Randy Cuberly]

I would add that although those mentioned are all pretty good, in my opinion the ROJett 61 is the most effective of the lot.  Easy to use and a great pipe run.  Ask Brett Buck!

It probably is the most expensive of the lot but well worth it.

I would also mention the Stalker engines from Kaz Minato.  He has a new K77 that is a genuine Jewel...I have one recently acquired from Kaz.  Weighs 375 Grams...

Randy Cuberly

[Bradley Walker]

Pickins is slim.

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[Bradley Walker]

I had a Stalker 77 I bought from the guys in Ukraine and it was a total pos.

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[Walter Hicks]

Brad, What you had was a Stalker 76 which is a completely different motor that the K77. The Stalker 76 is low RPM high prop pitch
motor. The K 77 is supposed to be a replacement for the PA 75. Timing etc is similar, much higher rpm  can be used on a pipe.
K 77 was developed with Stalker and Kaz Minato. If you are not wanting a RO Jett 61 or 67 the K 77 is very possibly a good alternative.

11.9 ounces!

[Balsa Butcher]

Ro-Jett 67 also being produced. It can be used w/or without tuned pipe. Slim Pickins, great actor, loved him in Dr. Strangelove. Wasn't he also in Blazing Saddles, another classic?  IC stunt engines, get 'em while you can.

[Brett Buck]

Pickins is slim.

  There used to be two legitimate choices and now there is one, so it's not like we were ever overburdened.

    Brett

[Bradley Walker]

Brad, What you had was a Stalker 76 which is a completely different motor that the K77. The Stalker 76 is low RPM high prop pitch
motor. The K 77 is supposed to be a replacement for the PA 75. Timing etc is similar, much higher rpm  can be used on a pipe.
K 77 was developed with Stalker and Kaz Minato. If you are not wanting a RO Jett 61 or 67 the K 77 is very possibly a good alternative.

11.9 ounces!

Oh OK.   That's sounds good.   That's a lot of motor though.

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[Bradley Walker]

  There used to be two legitimate choices and now there is one, so it's not like we were ever overburdened.

    Brett

Truth.

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[john ohnimus]

1941... Hollis Wood.

[Bradley Walker]

I am pretty interested in that Enya.   I dont see why that wouldn't be the equivalent of the now so named Brett Buck 61.  Same timing.   Os max timing.   Same as the 40vf.

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[proparc]

Given the intensely fierce price competition for good CL stunt motors on Ebay i.e., $365 for an ST46 and $420 for a ST61, and $ 283 for a Moki .51, you’d think some astute manufacturer would stand up and take notice. I know I had a heck of a time ramping up my I.C. stable, for my up and coming CL stunt competition program.

I know that Bob Brooks of Shtterman Ebay, is practically pulling his hair out because, Enya refuses to make the CL stunt motors that he could sell with no problems. What we need is a good $199.99 dollar CL stunt side exhaust 60 ready to go out of the box.

[Balsa Butcher]

FWIW: Bobby has 5 61 CXL-S' available at the present time. Horizon Hobbies developed the Evo 60 which was good .61 sized stunt engine for under $150-discountinued recently because of lack of sales. I have bench run an Enya 61. Initial impression is that it runs more like a standard Ro-Jett or VF-46 than the higher RPM BB version or 40VF but further experimentation is called for. Without a doubt it will prove to be a worthy tuned pipe or rear exhaust stunt engine. Get 'em while you can.

[Bob Reeves]

Saito 62, in stock at Horizon

[Brett Buck]

I am pretty interested in that Enya.   I dont see why that wouldn't be the equivalent of the now so named Brett Buck 61.  Same timing.   Os max timing.   Same as the 40vf.

   You can't really tell without actually running it, and developing the system, which will take a season or so, since there is no currently-accepted setup that you can refer to. The "standard" RO-Jett 61 and the PA61 have essentially the same internal timing and they do not run the same, and the cast case RO-Jett does not run the same as the bar stock, even though the liner/piston/crank are identical. Nor does re-timing a PA to match the good version of RO-Jett replicate the same performance.  

   There's *way* more to it than that. The timing definitely matters but it doesn't define everything you need to know. It can certainly be done and maybe it will work better once you figure it out, but you can't really tell until you have spent a season or two developing it and competing with it in a variety of conditions.

    Brett

[Bradley Walker]

  You can't really tell without actually running it, and developing the system, which will take a season or so, since there is no currently-accepted setup that you can refer to. The "standard" RO-Jett 61 and the PA61 have essentially the same internal timing and they do not run the same, and the cast case RO-Jett does not run the same as the bar stock, even though the liner/piston/crank are identical. Nor does re-timing a PA to match the good version of RO-Jett replicate the same performance.  

   There's *way* more to it than that. The timing definitely matters but it doesn't define everything you need to know. It can certainly be done and maybe it will work better once you figure it out, but you can't really tell until you have spent a season or two developing it and competing with it in a variety of conditions.

    Brett

Well of course.

But at the same time,  there are reasonable expectations from a design being in the ballpark.

The RO Jett performance is related to the size of the exhaust port. So,  in that sense if you were to take a low timed version and raise the exhaust port, you would not have the same engine.

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[Bradley Walker]

And the Enya is basically an overgrown os vf....  A bone stock rc engine...   In the beginning of the pipe era,  when people weren't trying to make pipe engines run like a Fox 35, it was said pretty much any OS MAX would work fine when coupled with a pipe to control the run away....

It was said.

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[Balsa Butcher]

Just to keep things legit: The current CXL-S appears to be a C/L specific engine. It has a different (red) head and a true ABC P&L. The R/C versions have do not share the same head and have ringed pistons. They show a higher max RPM than the CXL-S which leads me to suspect they may be timed differently. The previous version of the CXL-S was a ringed engine. This is not that engine. To confuse the issue even more the original (before the ringed version) CXL engines were also ABC but were available only in a side exhaust configuration.

I have run the CXL-S on both a pipe and a RE muffler. Good runs either way. This cannot be said of the OS VF series which, as was stated, must be run on a tuned pipe to control run away. But whatever...being R/C engines first did not hurt VF 40s and 46's from being considered excellent stunt engines.

[Brett Buck]

And the Enya is basically an overgrown os vf....  A bone stock rc engine...   In the beginning of the pipe era,  when people weren't trying to make pipe engines run like a Fox 35, it was said pretty much any OS MAX would work fine when coupled with a pipe to control the run away....

It was said.

No, it wasn't. Some of them work, and some of them don't. What was actually said was that a pipe made it *possible* to run a lot of schneurle engines - not that they were ALL good. And, you have no idea if the Enya is an "overgrown VF" since *no one has developed a known reliable setup for it*.

   I'm done, I won't play gotcha games with you.

    Brett

[Bradley Walker]

No, it wasn't. Some of them work, and some of them don't. What was actually said was that a pipe made it *possible* to run a lot of schneurle engines - not that they were ALL good. And, you have no idea if the Enya is an "overgrown VF" since *no one has developed a known reliable setup for it*.

   I'm done, I won't play gotcha games with you.

    Brett

Oh good lord.

I really think I should just not stunt.   It's really not for me any more. 

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[Bradley Walker]

The very concept that discussing modern airplane engines could get used as a gotcha game for a supposedly grown man is foreign concept  to me now. I think I've grown up.

So yall have fun.   I think I'm going to do something else.

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[PerttiMe]

Sounds like all engines have been done in so many variants that it is hard, if not impossible, to know what you have until you try it.

[Steve Fitton]

If this is still about the T Rex 600, why not just put an LA-46 in it, fly the crap out of it and not bother with the forums.  Its a forum problem you have, not a stunt problem.

[Doug Moon]

Oh good lord.

I really think I should just not stunt.   It's really not for me any more. 

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Just to be clear stunt is NOT and NEVER has been about arguing or agreeing on discussion forums on the Internet.

It's getting out and building and flying your plane.

Go fly a plane and it won't take but a nano second to remember what it's really all about. 

[Bradley Walker]

If this is still about the T Rex 600, why not just put an LA-46 in it, fly the crap out of it and not bother with the forums.  Its a forum problem you have, not a stunt problem.

It's not a forum problem.

It's a I don't forget problem.

But to your point I was considering the LA 46.   Brian Eather said he would make me a pipe,  and I used to use the Eather green cut down on the LA 46 and it was super excellent.   Of course they stopped making those too.

I think my favorite stunt run ever was the "mistake timed"  RO Jett 65 and if Richard,  Dubb,  and their little fanclub hadn't been such colossal you know what's about me telling everyone that the timing was not as advertised (God forbid) I would still be running one.   There won't be any Jett motors in my future.   Unless it's the one Richard still owes me from before he stopped answering my phone calls...

The Enya appears to be very close to the RO Jett.  The mistake timed motor was very close to an OS max clone.   That was my point.   I never said they were exactly the same.   And it's made in Japan.   By a Japanese guy I don't know, and doesn't owe me money.

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[Brett Buck]

The very concept that discussing modern airplane engines could get used as a gotcha game for a supposedly grown man is foreign concept  to me now. I think I've grown up.

  You are trying to play "see you told me something in 2002, now you say something different, hah hah". Just like you have always done. And then act like you have been deeply wounded when someone objects. The Dirt nailed it before- the Eddie Haskell of stunt.

   I told you the right answer to your question above - just like 2004 when you asked, just like 2006, and just like I told Doug on the phone in late 2003 or early 2004. It's not like it is any sort of secret, and it would be real tough to claim it doesn't work.   You just don't like the answer because you have burned your bridges, spectacularly, with Richard and Dub. 

    You could just admit you were wrong, straighten it out, and get an engine from them. But you can't bring yourself to do that, so you reject the advice, and then try to discredit it by claiming I am changing my story. And effectively demand another solution. Numbingly predictable. Well, I don't know a better answer than the one I gave you.

    BTW, you aren't likely to get better results with any other engine, if you approach it like you did with the Jett.

    Brett
 

[Bradley Walker]

You need to watch calling me names Brett Buck....   Something I doubt you would do in person.   Which make  you the worst kind of coward.

In fact, you and I were speaking on the phone in the "pre Brett Buck model Jett", and you act like you were aware of everything before everyone else and anything I would say is simply common knowledge,  that doesn't make your imagination the truth.   
Taking credit for others people ideas and discoveries is something you and your little buddies seem to do a lot.  You were at the time trying to figure out the same things  I was trying to figure out.   We were on parallel tracks to the same conclusion.

Yah...   I remember what happened.   I remember Jett completely freaking out when he put a set of calipers on the sleeve...  Which he had never done before (certainly not with Brett)  Because I was on the phone with him at the time.  He seemed so upset but in a genuine way.   He was interested in fixing the mistake and was very polite. He said he would call me back.

I remember the phone call I got from Richard immediately after telling me that he knew it all along, and didn't think it was important,  and he had never measured it because it ran fine.   And then he took on a very threatening tone and hung up.   He was literally panting like a dog he was so mad.  Then he kept my RO Jett 76 and my money and never returned my phone calls again.  He instead took to the Internet to deny the fact he had no idea it had happened and I was some kind of trouble maker with and axe to grind.   Richard and I used to talk on the phone nearly every day,  and I flew with him and Al Rabe on occasion.   

We were friends...   That's why I flew the Jetts...   Something I'm not sure a lot of people in this hobby even comprehend.

I just wanted to know why the pipe was acting like it was short.   So I timed the sleeve.   It was that simple.   My friend Bill Wilson had the first run bar stock from Richard at a contest and it was closer to 155 degrees than the advertised 136.

Yah,  that's right the Texas guys got the first run engines.   Before the California guys even knew they were on the market.   But hey.   Don't believe me.   I'm just Eddie Haskell.

I didn't burn my bridges you spectacular...   Grrrrrrrrrrrr.   They were burned for me.   And I did not enjoy the experience.  And screw them and the horse they rode in on....

And I wasn't wrong.  Obviously.  I never said it didn't work...  If you would learn to read,  I just said it was my favorite motor.   But it won't run well with the pipe about an inch or more too short .

I think I can develop just fine....   Brett.   I am pretty sure I could get the Enya to work.   I did pretty well in the past if I chose too.  I just don't.  And Brett you don't know @#$% about me or any of the people you claim to know except what you read on these stupid forums.   

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[Bradley Walker]

You need to watch calling me names Brett Buck....   Something I doubt you would do in person.   Which make  you the worst kind of coward.

In fact, you and I were speaking on the phone in the "pre Brett Buck model Jett", and you act like you were aware of everything before everyone else and anything I would say is simply common knowledge,  that doesn't make your imagination the truth.  
Taking credit for others people ideas and discoveries is something you and your little buddies seem to do a lot.  You were at the time trying to figure out the same things  I was trying to figure out.   We were on parallel tracks to the same conclusion.

Yah...   I remember what happened.   I remember Jett completely freaking out when he put a set of calipers on the sleeve...  Which he had never done before (certainly not with Brett)  Because I was on the phone with him at the time.  He seemed so upset but in a genuine way.   He was interested in fixing the mistake and was very polite. He said he would call me back.

I remember the phone call I got from Richard immediately after telling me that he knew it all along, and didn't think it was important,  and he had never measured it because it ran fine.   And then he took on a very threatening tone and hung up.   He was literally panting like a dog he was so mad.  Then he kept my RO Jett 76 and my money and never returned my phone calls again.  He instead took to the Internet to deny the fact he had no idea it had happened and I was some kind of trouble maker with and axe to grind.   Richard and I used to talk on the phone nearly every day,  and I flew with him and Al Rabe on occasion.  

We were friends...   That's why I flew the Jetts...   Something I'm not sure a lot of people in this hobby even comprehend.

I just wanted to know why the pipe was acting like it was short.   So I timed the sleeve.   It was that simple.   My friend Bill Wilson had the first run bar stock from Richard at a contest and it was closer to 155 degrees than the advertised 136.

Yah,  that's right the Texas guys got the first run engines.   Before the California guys even knew they were on the market.   But hey.   Don't believe me.   I'm just Eddie Haskell.

I didn't burn my bridges you spectacular...   Grrrrrrrrrrrr.   They were burned for me.   And I did not enjoy the experience.  And screw them and the horse they rode in on....

And I wasn't wrong.  Obviously.  I never said it didn't work...  If you would learn to read,  I just said it was my favorite motor.   But it won't run well with the pipe about an inch or more too short .

I think I can develop just fine....   Brett.   I am pretty sure I could get the Enya to work.   I did pretty well in the past if I chose too.  I just don't.  And Brett you don't know @#$% about me or any of the people you claim to know except what you read on these stupid forums.  

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I called randy and he said get an LA 46 so I'm going to do that.   If I do anything at all.

[RC Storick]

this thread has run it's course.