Author Topic: 50's-60's combat history (Read 48187 times)

riley wooten · « **on:** October 01, 2015, 01:58:42 PM »

This was brought up on another thread so I am adding my input. Remember this is from my experience, mostly in my area of West Texas in the early 50's, so I will go from there.. I flew my first combat contest in the fall of 1953. Almost everyone was flying Ringmasters/Fox 35s less lg. I had one so I just entered. It didn't take long to realize I was not a match for the older, more experienced pilots. I needed an advantage so it needs to be lighter.. I trimmed all the excess wood off the fuse and with Sterlings balsa you can guess the difference... Flew much better, but I do not remember what happened to it. Plane number 2 was built with a Veco Brave or Warrior wing (don't remember which) a friend gave me. The name of the game was wing loading so I put the tank in the wing, engine against the LE, minimum fuse, which meant short coupled to keep weight down... It flew much better and with Fox35 power was faster and held speed in turns better..

SIDE NOTE: Before I go on combat at this time had a 12" kill zone (one foot between back of plane and streamer).. In this area all combat when I started was flown on 52-1/2' lines although rules said 60'. This was done because the wind could be quite strong in the spring and we could still fly. Our only outside source of information was model mags. We did not have the advantage of all the clubs and modelers on the east and west coast so we were pretty much trial and error.... My search to build better planes led to getting every book on aircraft design I could find....

Plane #2 was flown in a contest in Amarillo in spring of 54 (my 2nd contest) In my first match I was involved in a mid air which left me with about 1/2 of the outboard wing intact. I wound up winning because the plane would fly in the high wind where others feared to go!!! I then flew in several local contest that year, don't remember much about them but the highlight came when the local hobby shop owner and friend took me and his son to the Southwest Championships in Dallas.. I was in shock as I had never seen anything like this (bleachers, trophy stands, vendors) and C/L was far bigger than any nats of today.
I wound up winning senior combat but don't remember what plane I flew or anything else except I was very impressed with the Whichahawks (sp) club........
About this time we started to see planes designed just for combat showing up..........

This is also the time I knew what I wanted in a combat plane. #1 With parts cut I needed to be able to frame it up in no more than an hour. #2 Material cost not more than $1.00 (remember this is early 50's) #3 It must be light but strong #4 It has to have an airfoil and wing loading to give good turns, but more important hold speed in turns as much as possible......

To be continued: (brain freeze)
RW

badbill · « **Reply #1 on:** October 01, 2015, 02:12:29 PM »

Awesome start Riley, I can't wait for the rest.

Fredvon4 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 01, 2015, 02:24:51 PM »

I wasn't born yet at this point in Riley's memory of 50s 60s combat history and I am fascinated by everything that went into flying in those days

I will be following this recollection closely as many of the names I remember from my youth have already passed and we are loosing a lot of this history

Thank you sir for doing this!

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #3 on:** October 01, 2015, 03:21:57 PM »

Keep going! Keep going!

Dane Martin · « **Reply #4 on:** October 01, 2015, 04:16:44 PM »

Wow! This is awesome. Thank you so much

Andre Ming · « **Reply #5 on:** October 01, 2015, 05:21:07 PM »

Riley:

Wow... 1953... I was ONE year old!!

Amazing span of time/history you're sharing.

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I have already saved this first installment to a folder with your name on it.

Andre

M Spencer · « **Reply #6 on:** October 01, 2015, 08:00:02 PM »

Thanks for taking the trouble to write all this down . Must bring back a few memmories .

file:///F:/Downloads/Demon%20%20CL.pdf

( from here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1288656&page=48 )

Maybe thisll help !

mustve been maybe 12 when I flew the brothers OS 30 one . was on 60 ft lines with a 9 x 6 .
Was clean straight red tissue over silk .Got a scar from that prop . NEVER put your hand on the inside wing l.e. .
Some turkey might jerk the handle .

Mike Keville · « **Reply #7 on:** October 01, 2015, 09:31:26 PM »

1953! Saw my first Combat match at the Willow Grove Nats: Sterling Yak-9 (sans gear) vs. a dMECO Sportwing. Can't recall if either got a cut, but was amazed that they were flying over asphalt (or concrete?).

Many years later, at a VSC, finally met Riley Wooten. Such a nice, humble gentleman!

Please keep the history coming.....

howard shenton · « **Reply #8 on:** October 02, 2015, 08:16:17 AM »

Attached is a list of Riley's published designs.
This list was developed after one of my friends asked me about Riley's designs.
Went to Barry Baxter's site and got most of the information.
The Pirate was the first combat plane I built that was not a kit. Still have fond memories of that plane and am considering building another one.
The Vampire, Sizzor & Shadow were flown by me. Still have the Shadow wing awaiting repair.

Howard Shenton
Mauldin, SC

john e. holliday · « **Reply #9 on:** October 02, 2015, 11:19:28 AM »

Thanks for the start Riley. 53 I was just getting a start in CL with 1/2A stuff. 56 got my first successful .35 CL plane going. 56 was also my first CL contest at a little airport west of Stanley KS that also had FF going. My Dad who did not fly or build models watched the combat flying all day. I was flying or trying to fly Rat Race. Was DQ'd when a wheel fell off. He was amazed also that they rebuilt a plane for the next round. So keep your memory banks in gear and let us know more.

Will Hinton · « **Reply #10 on:** October 02, 2015, 11:26:50 AM »

I ad my thanks for your willingness to do this post, Riley. The trip back is a true pleasure for many of us.

riley wooten · « **Reply #11 on:** October 02, 2015, 12:03:52 PM »

Boy, this is harder than I thought.. Trying to remember events (even highlights) from 60 + years ago is tough. I am trying to take it a year at a time to hopefully get things in the right order. I'm sure I will miss some events and designs of the time......

1955 - The designs I remember about this time are the Halfast by Wild Bill and the Sweet Sweep by the Grogan brothers....... The spring of 55 is also the time I designed the Quickie.. That design didn't last very long before we replaced it with the Quicker.. The Quickie was designed just for the Fox 35 which were the only engines I had at the time.. The wing was the same as the Quicker with a little less cord.. I tried to stick to about a 4 to 1 aspect ratio on most of my planes. The 1/4" spar was located with the top on the rib center line so the motor mounts set on it giving 0 degrees thrust. The trailing edge slid through the two center ribs (fuselage sides) that made a flat box fuselage with the stab/elevator on wing center line. Upright motor with tank mounted behind. Quickies were very light (under 15 oz.) and performed very well. I flew that design most of 55 but don't remember too many details.. At most contest I only had one plane, two at most... This was of course before instant glue and plastic covering.. Covering and doping took a lot longer than building.. Also, if there was no contest we flew each other almost every weekend as long as we had planes.

The highlight again was the Southwestern Championships, Dallas, Labor day weekend. This was always the big one and a lot of fun for this ol country boy.....
I spent a lot of time flying left handed so I could switch hands to avoid line tangles (before safety thongs)...The flight against Bud Tenny of Dallas I will never forget. During the match we started into a tangle so I reached around and switched hands.. Only thing wrong - somehow I took the handle UPSIDE DOWN....
The next 8 seconds was like a bull ride, just off the ground on one side of circle to just off ground on the other, hahoo!!!(sp) Somehow I managed to get enough time to get it back in my right hand and continue the match - think I even won. Do not remember much else about combat the rest of the contest...

My high point of this contest was that I just finished my first "Texan" stunt plane, put decals and wheels on it in motel the night before.. Got up early the next mourning to test fly, trim and practice. I won open stunt and that was one of my proudest moments as there were several name fliers of that era flying.......

I will pause here and collect thoughts for 1956, My first Nats and new designs............
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #12 on:** October 02, 2015, 12:16:20 PM »

An afterthought before I forget... One thing I realized after going to meets in Dallas, ect. is that all of that early flying in West Texas on 52' lines was an advantage.. On 60' lines everything was in slow motion - wow!!
RW

Terrence Durrill · « **Reply #13 on:** October 02, 2015, 05:18:32 PM »

Hey Riley
Please include some information on the 1955 Pirate and article in Flying Models Magazine. I obtained a copy of that magazine and built a copy of the Pirate in 1955 at the age of 16. I am 75 years old at this time. The Pirate was my first real combat plane. I had always planned to build another, but never got around to it. In 1955, I used a K&B .35 greenhead for power and I guess I overpowered it. After a number of flights, the main spar in the inside wing broke at the cutout for the belcrank. The same thing happened to a flying buddy who built the Pirate. I planned to substitute 2 1/4x36 square spars for the 1/8 by 1x36 spar on the plan, should I build another. Other that that, I really liked the Pirate.....it was a fun sport flyer......and I might still get one built one day as I still have that magazine and the Pirate plans. This time, I will use one of my 1955 model Fox .35 stunt engines as you did back then, which might a better power choice for this plane. My thanks to you for the great designs over the years.....I have built and flown most of them. I was flying Vampires with Super Tigre G-21 .35's at Olathe, KS, in 1968 and won the 5th place trophy in Open Combat back behind you.....of course you took 1st place that year in Open flying Vampires using Fox .36x BB's. We are all looking forward to hearing more of your recollections from back in the day when Combat was a great adventure....the 1950's, 60's and 70's.

riley wooten · « **Reply #14 on:** October 03, 2015, 09:01:02 AM »

Terrence,

So long ago I don't remember much about it. I think it may have been my first combat design from the ground up.. It flew very good but proved to take too long to build and was not strong enough. I think it is the plane I used to win the 54 Southwestern Championships at age 20. It did help me decide what my goals for a combat plane should be as mentioned earlier. If you build another, yes beef up the wing.....
RW

Andre Ming · « **Reply #15 on:** October 03, 2015, 10:34:19 AM »

All RW posts copied to folder!

Terrance:

You said...

Quote

We are all looking forward to hearing more of your recollections from back in the day when Combat was a great adventure....the 1950's, 60's and 70's.

I agree 99%! Only thing I alter mentally is the for me it's ... the 1950's, 60's and EARLY-MID 70's. They lost me with the foam w/clear film covered combat planes that begin to appear.

Good to see you posting here, Terrance. I remember you from the RCgroups C/L forum days.

riley wooten · « **Reply #16 on:** October 04, 2015, 02:08:49 PM »

OOPS; before I go on I need to mention a couple of important events in this story.... In the fall of 1955 the LHS got two green head K&B 35s... I bought one, his son, age 15 got the other... Upon running in I noticed a lot of vibration. Removing the back plate I could see etching where the piston was touching it when the engine warmed up. Relieved bottom of piston slightly to stop this. While I had it apart I removed all sharp edges on shaft port. I used crocus cloth to polish crank o.d. for a smoother fit.... At this point I was a rookie on engine work so I don't know how much, if any it helped, but it did wonders for the vibration....... I do know it was a very good running engine, and quite an improvement power wise over a Fox stunt 35...... This led to the design of the Quicker. So named because it was quicker to build than the Quickie... The Quicker had a 9" cord and 36-1/2" wingspan (as plan in MAN).. This became pretty much the standard wing size in combat for quite a while.... What changed other than wing size was the motor mounts (3/8" x 1/2" maple) became the full length fuselage crutch, except for about the front 5" they were thinned to 1/8". This made a quicker building, stronger plane and as good a combat ship as you could find anywhere, and far better than most IMHO................
RW

Lyle Spiegel · « **Reply #17 on:** October 04, 2015, 04:10:08 PM »

Riley, I have remains of my original Quicker that i built from California Models kit. Too far gone to resurrect so I want to build new. I have the plans. I measured wing chord from my kit built and it's 8 1/2 " The plans show 9 inches. Not sure which version should I build? Engine available either my JCS or Fox36XBB. Please comment. Thx. Lyle Spiegel

riley wooten · « **Reply #18 on:** October 04, 2015, 04:26:33 PM »

Quote from: Lyle Spiegel on October 04, 2015, 04:10:08 PM

Riley, I have remains of my original Quicker that i built from California Models kit. Too far gone to resurrect so I want to build new. I have the plans. I measured wing chord from my kit built and it's 8 1/2 " The plans show 9 inches. Not sure which version should I build? Engine available either my JCS or Fox36XBB. Please comment. Thx. Lyle Spiegel

Lyle, for the Fox36XBB or even the large case Johnson I would build the 9" cord, full 36" plus tips...
RW

Dennis Leonhardi · « **Reply #19 on:** October 04, 2015, 09:13:50 PM »

Riley, I'm delighted to see you write this!!! I probably got started a few years after you, but my earliest memories go back to the mid '50s.

I'm really pressed for time now - and have been for a couple of weeks - but the prior combat column brought back a lot of memories!

The courtesy lap, Carl Berryman, Bill James, the '63 Nats - man, I flew against both of those guys and could almost write a book about that year! I purchased my first Sneeker kit from you there, won the first contest (and a few more) with it the next year, later bought many kits directly from you (Flite Line), and got my engines directly from Duke Fox too. I'll write more later this week and put it in another topic so as not to detract from your recollections.

Incidentally, the most "hair, teeth and eyeballs" match I've ever seen was your defeat of a Canadian flying a high aspect ratio machine in the final match of the '68 Nats at Olathe, Kansas. Pity you had to re-glue the covering on one wing tip after that match ...

I could surely be mistaken, but I also seem to recall a match at the Nats where an obviously less-experienced pilot was having trouble starting or setting his engine. So his opponent - whoever he was - had his pit man hold his own airplane (with the engine running), then started and set the engine for the "rookie". Incredible sportsmanship ... reminded me of more typical combat contests when I started in the '50s, something that seemed to diminish greatly over the years.

I wonder who that pilot was?

Thanks Riley, for all your contributions to the event many of us had an absolute passion for!

Dennis

Andre Ming · « **Reply #20 on:** October 04, 2015, 09:45:05 PM »

Thanks for another installment Riley!

Dennis:

You said:

"The courtesy lap, Carl Berryman, Bill James, the '63 Nats - man, I flew against both of those guys and could almost write a book about that year!"

I would LOVE to ready anything you're willing to write about combat at the '63 Nats, especially your impressions of my old (late) friend Bill James.

Andre

riley wooten · « **Reply #21 on:** October 05, 2015, 08:23:24 AM »

Dennis, it's ok to chime in here. I expected other peoples comments and hope it might add to the memories.... Before I am through I may rough a few feathers but I hope not.... I do know there is always someone who has a better mouse trap and/or an axe to grind..... That's what makes the world go around..
Remember, we don't all dance to the same tune..... Off my soapbox!!
RW

john e. holliday · « **Reply #22 on:** October 05, 2015, 08:34:07 AM »

My first NATS was Grand Prairie NAS in 64. I drew you in second round. Boy you were one tall guy and very friendly to this ex farm boy. Heard later you were eliminated next round when engine decided to go its own way. Then the next NATS was 70 at Glenview NAS Chicago. Lost first round because they made emergency ruling that we could not start our own engines. After I got to the engine found out had shorted glow plug. No combat at NATS after that. I still love to watch combat.

The reason I remember this so well is you put your arm around my shoulder and said you wanted to see what I had for power.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #23 on:** October 05, 2015, 10:47:00 AM »

WOW, I never flew Combat but loved watching, just too busy flying FF. This is just amazing to read, I did build a VooDoo to play with and loved it, I have another ready now but haven't flown it yet. Thanks Riley for doing this, it's an open window into a past part of modeling I always loved but never managed to participate in.

Bob Mears · « **Reply #24 on:** October 05, 2015, 02:24:05 PM »

Quote from: riley wooten on October 05, 2015, 08:23:24 AM

Dennis, it's ok to chime in here. I expected other peoples comments and hope it might add to the memories.... Before I am through I may rough a few feathers but I hope not.... I do know there is always someone who has a better mouse trap and/or an axe to grind..... That's what makes the world go around..
Remember, we don't all dance to the same tune..... Off my soapbox!!
RW

Ok Riles, Share the story about the match that you were forced into an unnecessary rematch, and you marked the spot with your tool box where you would plant him. Then did it.

riley wooten · « **Reply #25 on:** October 05, 2015, 03:02:08 PM »

OK, Bob I said I was not going to ruffle any feathers or embarrass(sp) anyone, besides this is way down in the story and may come up later...........
One thing about it some of these people may not still be with us but I think this happened in 66 so they could be much younger.. At any rate if I mention it no names will be included.......
RW

goozgog · « **Reply #26 on:** October 05, 2015, 04:23:11 PM »

This is an Epic!

Thank you so much for
doing this Mr. Wooten!
I'm fascinated.

Cheers!

dale gleason · « **Reply #27 on:** October 06, 2015, 08:38:18 AM »

Riley said memories would be rekindled....

When my Dad was assigned to Tachikawa AFB, the family went along. The hobby shop owner in Ruston, La gave me a "going away" gift...he cut me a kit of the "Quicker". I built it in Japan using a Max 35 for power. It outflew anything over there, including my SweetSweep and Flight Streaks. And was quite different from the Carl Goldberg kit that came along much later...thicker airfoil.

Forty years later, the new Captain I was flying with in the DC-10, Tom Lowe, was featured in Stunt News, his son had rebuilt a PT19 model and taken a pic of it and sent it in a District Report. Tom was heavily involved in full scale Stearmans, had two of'em, but we talked mainly control line (during breaks, of course, of course, never while on duty).

Tom said as a kid he would drive all night, maybe three hundred miles, just to get a chance to fly against Riley. The few times he got to do so, he was lucky to last fifteen seconds, but, it was worth every bit of the effort.

Thank you for this thread, Riley,
dale g

riley wooten · « **Reply #28 on:** October 06, 2015, 08:46:53 AM »

In early 1956 we started building and flying Quickers.. Our LHS had a back room full of woodworking equipment he let me use so he and I cut a lot of semi kits.
Here I must stop and say thanks to Harry Furman the owner of that shop. Without him I may have never started competition flying. He carried me and his son Greg to almost all contest in the early days and paid for most of it. He is now long gone but not forgotten......... Our group was flying in all the local contest in 56 when we heard the Nationals would be held in Dallas... We had to go!! This was our chance to see how the BIG BOYS did it.. I thought we would learn a lot but didn't think we would probably win anything. I actually thought I had a better chance of placing in stunt than combat... Harry and Greg Furman, Curtis Graves, Bruce Brown and I entered and started making plans to attend... OUR FIRST NATS - BID "D" HERE WE COME.... 56 Nats coming up......
RW

C.T. Schaefer · « **Reply #29 on:** October 06, 2015, 04:58:43 PM »

This is great stuff! I would be interested in hearing what motors you guys used, as the years progressed, and why. Including strong and weak points of motors from each era. I have been having fun getting to run these motors in appropriate planes for a couple of years now. Mostly Foxes but also a Greenhead (pulls like a tractor!) and G-21. Thanks TS

riley wooten · « **Reply #30 on:** October 06, 2015, 10:34:42 PM »

August 1956 we get to NAS, Grand Prairie !! WOW, I can't believe this; a great big hanger full of models and modelers. This is above anything I could imagine and way above what I expected....If you never got to attend a Navy Nats you do not know what you missed...As a 22 year old from rural west Texas I was so overwhelmed ... It was just a feeling I can't describe, the hanger, the people, the Navy barracks (hot as hell in Texas in August but fun), sos breakfast, lots of water and salt pills.... Met all the people I read about in mags, got our equipment ready and did some practice flying... Greg, our junior and a brash kid was always starting something, they were trashing our Quickers............ The interaction was unbelievable, but something special........

Can you believe going to a Nats with only one engine you would call competitive? Unheard of today but that is what I had, the one Green head K & B.....
We will get into some of the designs present next post.
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #31 on:** October 07, 2015, 08:13:35 PM »

There was a large group from the Chicago/Indiana area flying the new Midwest Omega kit (or soon to be a kit). Not flying but leading the charge was Frank Garcher, president of Midwest. All the money was for this group to win it all with the new design.... Met Frank and got to know him over the years and did business with him until his passing.. Big Stoop, as he was known was a great guy and a big promoter of modeling, all modeling...... Years later we shipped containers of balsa to him from the plantation in Ecuador...

The combat models I remember other than the Omega were Sweet Sweeps and Halfast. Most of the rest were profiles of various shapes, most of which I do not remember.... They made fun of our Quickers with remarks like "looks like they were run over by a truck" because they were flat except for the big shark rudder.......... The competition begins and we were flying over concrete runways, and did I mention it was HOT... Saw my first flyaway when a handle was pulled from some ones hand. Plane (Sweet Sweep I think) circled around the handle/lines until out of sight...Silence and finally we see plane coming down, still circling in a glide. It actually landed in the circle from which it departed.. Not even a broken prop!!!!

I don't remember much about any of our flights, but Harry and I pitted for all our group so we were quite busy..... When all the smoke cleared I won open and Don Bucanan from Amarillo was third... Bruce Brown won senior and Greg Furman was second in junior...With tongue in cheek I will say Greg was very aggressive and it cost him first.. All the guys were flying Quickers and it was almost a sweep.. I could not believe it...... We had won and won big......
I had won, over concrete using the same plane, prop combo the entire time.............

After my win Hi Johnson asked me if I would be interested in running Johnsons if he supplied them.. For a guy with only one combat engine you know my answer.. Only if I can win with them I added. That started a long friendship and good times to come which I will touch on later....
RW

Mike Keville · « **Reply #32 on:** October 07, 2015, 08:30:14 PM »

Ah, yes...the Navy Nats. My favorite subject. As Riley said, if you weren't there, you've no idea what you missed!

riley wooten · « **Reply #33 on:** October 07, 2015, 09:31:47 PM »

For those who wonder, I have to keep post short or lose my attention span.. I still have to go back and pickup something I missed or will add later as is...
Also, I keep doing something stupid or by accident deleting post which I have to then do over. If I keep them short I have less double takes.........

In my next post I want to tell about my stunt experiences at my first Nats, and hope someone has records of scores of that event.. I would like to know if they are as I remember......
RW

M Spencer · « **Reply #34 on:** October 07, 2015, 10:56:19 PM »

Nothing cheers you up like having three quarters of an hour of an epistle DEMATERIALISE .

Might pay to use a pencil to throw an outline on a pad , and fill it in from that , as you go . Like a Author .
Whenever I get something down that I think should win the Booker Prize , it either dematerializes or they think im on the turps .

.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #35 on:** October 08, 2015, 10:52:32 AM »

Yes, nothing like spending 10 minutes typing something to have it disappear into cyber space never to be seen again. Where's that old Smith-Corolla typewriter?

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #36 on:** October 08, 2015, 03:52:31 PM »

Quote from: Mike Keville on October 07, 2015, 08:30:14 PM

Ah, yes...the Navy Nats. My favorite subject. As Riley said, if you weren't there, you've no idea what you missed!

Mike( and others) :
By no means am I trying to high jack this thread - but since Riley brought it up and you commented, I couldn't resist.
Perhaps had the Navy kept the NATS going, participation in the hobby would be significantly higher than it is today. And, I don't mean with quad copters.
Now- back to another installment of " Riley's Recollections".
Hey, word is Riley "cut" the chow line at Olathe !(lol)

Bob Reeves · « **Reply #37 on:** October 09, 2015, 03:53:02 AM »

Riley, use your email client to do the drafts then copy and paste into the forum. Put you own email address in your address book, create an email to yourself and do your typing in the email text editor. You can then either save it or even send it to yourself. Much less chance of loosing everything due to an internet glitch.

Randy Ryan · « **Reply #38 on:** October 09, 2015, 07:59:47 AM »

MAN!!! I am lovin' this thread!!!!!

Gerald Arana · « **Reply #39 on:** October 09, 2015, 08:45:24 AM »

Quote from: Bob Hunt on October 09, 2015, 05:09:18 AM

Hi Riley:

You mentioned the Lester Grogan-designed Sweet Sweep in your recollections. Can you give us any more information about this plane, when it was designed and how it flew? I've heard that Lester was confined to a wheel chair. Did someone else fly his design? I've also heard that this ship was protested by a competitor for having streamer catching devices on the wing (the wing fences). The story I've heard indicates that when the fences were directed by AMA to be removed, the plane lost a lot of its performance. Is any of this true? I'm building one (albeit electric...) and would like to know more about the ship and its designer.

Thank you for taking the time to write about your life in Combat. It's important that we all chronicle those days to fill in the fabric of history of our sport. Kudos on doing this extremely well here!

As a side note, I flew nothing but Quickers back in the day, and even flew one that had a flame paint job designed by Red Rinehardt! Red hand sketched the flames onto the wing of my freshly covered, red quicker using a soft pencil, and then I filled in the flames with a brush and yellow dope. The red was made from a dye that I put into clear dope. When I brushed on the yellow, some of the underlying red came through the yellow and augmented the flame look very nicely! Happy mistake. Then Red did some more detailing to the edges of the flames.

Since I lived only a few miles north of Willow Grove in 1961, I naturally flew in that year's Nats that were contested at the Navel station there. One of my school friend's father was a high ranking officer who was put in charge of Nats promotion for the Navy. He asked my father if I could be used for promotion of the Nats in our Philly area. One of the things that I was asked to do was to pose with my flamed Quicker for newspaper photos. I still have that "Official Navy Photograph" somewhere and I'll try to dig it up and post it on this thread.

Another promotion was to have me appear on the "Morgan in the Morning show on Philly TV. I've written a piece about that day in an autobiography that I'm working on. I'll post that section here now...

We were still living in the Doylestown area in 1961 when the AMA Nats returned to Willow Grove, as they had every four years since 1953. One of my schoolmates was the son of one of the base big wigs, and he also had an interest in model airplanes. His father was apparently put in charge of helping to promote the Nats in the region, and he asked me if I would consider appearing – along with a couple of other local youths – on the “Morgan in the Morning” television show that originated in Philadelphia. Wow! A chance to be on TV! That was pretty impressive to a young man in those days.

The big day arrived and we were driven to the television station in an official Navy staff car. I was asked to bring along an airplane and all the necessary items I would need to start the engine on the sound stage. Remember, there were no mufflers in those days. I chose to bring my prized Quicker (described earlier) with the flame paint job. It was fitted with a Johnson .35 engine, and those of you who have run them know that it is by far not the quietest engine on the planet. I remember mentioning that to the person who was assigned to direct us, but he said not to worry.

The big moment was nearing. The Morgan in the Morning show was what everyone in the entire area watched when they got up in the morning. I was about to have my few minutes of everlasting fame. Everyone would see me on TV, and I’d be the envy of all my friends. I was told to fuel the model and be ready to crank it up when the program returned from commercial. I remember being cued to be ready to flip the prop. I had the battery leads connected to the engine, and got a bump on the prop. And then . . . Well, you probably won’t believe this next part, but I swear it’s true. At just the moment that we were supposed to come back on air, the program was preempted for coverage of Gus Grissom’s Mercury space flight!

The host (I forgot his first name) Mr. Morgan personally apologized to us for not being able to get us on air. We were not re-scheduled, and that was that.

I had many Quickers in that era, Riley, but that flamed paint job version was by far my favorite. Great design and one that will live on in my heart for the span of my life.

Bob Hunt

Agggggghhhh! What a let down Bobby. But what a great story! I can't wait to read more of this on going saga.

Cheers, Jerry

riley wooten · « **Reply #40 on:** October 10, 2015, 03:49:52 PM »

Bob R
I don't know enough about computers to even know what you are telling me, sorry....

Bob H
That is a great story and reminds me of my colors on Quickers. A club member, Bobby Levine's, family owned the Levine department store chain and he came up with all this great yellow silk.. He gave me an almost lifetime supply so all My Quickers had clear doped yellow wings with "pink" fuselage/tail section by using what I thought was a red dye in clear dope that came out pink....... It was so different that I sort of used it as a trade mark.......... Bad thing is the dye faded very quickly in the sun, but it was light....

BTW; I am at team trials watching some good flying!!
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #41 on:** October 12, 2015, 02:55:55 PM »

Bob, Lester Grogan was wheel chair bound but I did not know him well.. He was a speed team member who I believe was the engine man and plane builder..
Their team was good. I saw him fly a couple of times with someone helping position the wheelchair.. How or when he happened to design the Sweet Sweep I do not know but think it was around 55. Maybe one of the Dallas area guys can fill us in. I have been told it did not fly near as well without the fences..... The only one I flew had them and flew well but not what I would call a great combat design, besides it was too hard to build..............
RW

dale gleason · « **Reply #42 on:** October 12, 2015, 09:29:29 PM »

"Sweet Sweep" was designed by Lester Grogan and Ken Hale, the plans drawn by Leland Morton. When the Ruston Hobby Hawks went to Longview in about 1956, they got their clocks cleaned by "Sweet Sweeps". Cliff Stinson and Chuck Anderson brought a kit back home with them after the contest, which they quickly built. It was powered by the new "Combat Fox" 35 (silver head). Sweeps were far ahead of anything we had, but, what we had were "Halfasts" and "Ringmasters" sans landing gear, maybe an occasional "Reactor". I ordered a kit from L&H Hobby Shop in Seagoville, Tx. I was lucky to receive it as I wrote Sea Gull Ville on the envelope. $5.50. The Grogan brothers (who I think had MS, flew from wheel chairs, there were news articles about them) cut the kits on a band saw, the stories and flyers who hung out at L&H Hobby shop would fill a book.

The junior combat kid to beat in the Dallas area at the time was Kenneth Knotts. His yellow Sweet Sweeps with Torp Green heads on pen bladder pressure against guys like me were like fighters shooting down C-47s. Cannon fodder. (I think Kenneth may be the President of the Benbrook RC club now, not positive about that). Another kid about that time was Dee Rice, who flew Bud Tenney designed combat ships. (Tennyplanes?) They were about equal, I'm told.

The "Sweep" had four "aerodynamic dams" that added line tension overhead. They also stuck out in front of the leading edge and helped snag streamers. AMA quickly added a ruling that disallowed "protuberances" forward of the leading edges of combat planes' wings. That's where I learned to spell "protuberances"
I mentioned earlier I took a "Quicker" kit to Japan, I also took a Sweep. If one looks up Junior C-D Speed at the Baton Rouge Contest in 1957, or was it '56, one will discover that a Fox 35 powered "Sweep" placed Third with a speed of 77.22 mph, half the speed of First and Second place....

That's about all I got, Riley...dg

riley wooten · « **Reply #43 on:** October 13, 2015, 10:34:11 AM »

I am going to get away from combat for a moment to finish my experience of my first Nats in 1956 in stunt... I was in the company of all my heroes and what an experience. Palmer, Aldridge, et all were all there.. I only remember flying one flight. Maybe I was at combat, don't know or just forgot....... Anyway that flight I remember well. About 1/3 of the way through I had the feeling I was nailing it and as I looked around the circle I saw that all the other fliers were watching........ I knew it was a good flight but I had to land. Since I flew from grass all the time the gear was too far forward and it was hard to land on hard top.. Anyway I screwed up the landing really bad and was told I received 2 points on it... If I really only received 2 points my moment of glory was ruined.....
I wound up in either 5th or 6th place about 6 points out of first. I remember the scores were very close and I was told I had scored the highest flight score, except for landing. If someone knows where to find the records from the 56 nats or if they exist I would like to know how to see them..... I would love to see if all this is as I remember it.......

We will get back to Hi Johnson, Carl Berryman and the birth of the Quicker kit next..........
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #44 on:** October 14, 2015, 12:22:47 PM »

After the 56 nats I talked to Hi a lot and he sent me a couple of engines to try.. They ran and started good but did not have the power of my green head K & B.
The first thing I did was to ream the venture until it was paper thin.. All of my test records and specs were lost in the LS fire so I can't give you any numbers... I filed the bottom to make as much of a rectangle as possible. The shaft opening was made longer to the rear and the shaft retimed with extended opening and closing times.. (do not remember the numbers and they were probably changed over time) Took weight off crank throw side, lightened rod and relieved piston skirt. Smoothed all sharp corners then ran it in rich but at high rpm. It was now better than the green head with more torque, but have to try it against a really good plane/pilot in competition.. That chance will come soon..........
RW

De Hill · « **Reply #45 on:** October 14, 2015, 07:25:12 PM »

Hi Riley,

Is this the stunt flight you finished and George Aldrich walked over and said" Who the hell are you?"

Quote from: riley wooten on October 13, 2015, 10:34:11 AM

I am going to get away from combat for a moment to finish my experience of my first Nats in 1956 in stunt... I was in the company of all my heroes and what an experience. Palmer, Aldridge, et all were all there.. I only remember flying one flight. Maybe I was at combat, don't know or just forgot....... Anyway that flight I remember well. About 1/3 of the way through I had the feeling I was nailing it and as I looked around the circle I saw that all the other fliers were watching........ I knew it was a good flight but I had to land. Since I flew from grass all the time the gear was too far forward and it was hard to land on hard top.. Anyway I screwed up the landing really bad and was told I received 2 points on it... If I really only received 2 points my moment of glory was ruined.....
I wound up in either 5th or 6th place about 6 points out of first. I remember the scores were very close and I was told I had scored the highest flight score, except for landing. If someone knows where to find the records from the 56 nats or if they exist I would like to know how to see them..... I would love to see if all this is as I remember it.......

We will get back to Hi Johnson, Carl Berryman and the birth of the Quicker kit next..........
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #46 on:** October 14, 2015, 07:32:27 PM »

Pick up on Labor Day, Dallas, Southwestern Championships, probably around 60 entries and a lot of good combat fliers.. I was still flying a Quicker with that green head because it was as good or better than the competition. Remember the K & B mounted upright had the exhaust pointed in, was loud and sounded mean...... The Johnson on the other hand was much quitter and just did not give the same impression..... The fastest and best looking plane there was a flying wing design out of Houston called the Wingmaster, I think, powered by a hot green head... Do not remember his name but he was looking good as was the plane.. The bracket wound down and we were to meet in the next round.. Decision time; do I keep flying the green head, or put the Johnson to the test..... It was the right decision as the Johnson had 3 to 5 mph level and really showed up in the turns, out pulling the GH badly..... I was sold and never ran the GH again....

The 57 Nats was in Philly. I could not afford to go but Hi Johnson who was also not going asked me to come and stay with him for a few days. It was a great time, I learned a lot and he introduced me to Bill Baker of California Models.. After visiting with Bill he decided to kit the Quicker and that is how the kit version came about. My only regret is that we did not use the original version... This is also the time Hi asked me to work with him on R & D.. This was a lot of fun and led to the big case Johnson CS, BB, and SS as well as the RC versions............
RW

riley wooten · « **Reply #47 on:** October 14, 2015, 07:43:38 PM »

Quote from: De Hill on October 14, 2015, 07:25:12 PM

Hi Riley,

Is this the stunt flight you finished and George Aldrich walked over and said" Who the hell are you?"

De,
No, unless my memory has completely left me that was the year before at Southwesterns in Dallas when I won open stunt.........
RW

De Hill · « **Reply #48 on:** October 14, 2015, 07:52:39 PM »

Riley,

A good story; I've remembered that one over the years.

riley wooten · « **Reply #49 on:** October 15, 2015, 02:28:11 PM »

The time frame gets a little fuzzy but I think it was either fall of 56 or spring of 57. We had a contest in Lubbock with it's usual large turnout of good combat fliers. Most were flying Quickers but one guy I did not know was flying a Halfast. He did not do well and some time in the mid afternoon he came up to me and said " I am Carl Berryman and I have to have plans to that airplane". Needless to say at 6'8" Carl is an imposing figure.. I explained that at this point no plans exist... He said I have to have something so I can build Quickers if I am going to fly combat....Basically, in a nice way he said I am not leaving Lubbock without them. My response was "follow me to my house after the contest and I will get you what is necessary to build them"... He and his wife and 2 young kids followed me home.. Our wives got along great and as they fixed something to eat I sketched a set of working plans as we talked models and combat....
It felt like I had known him forever and I remember thinking "what a neat guy"... Our personalities matched just right and we became great friends. I told him a lot about my thoughts on combat, important do's and don'ts, where he lives and let's get together and fly and so on.. Turns out he had just moved to Amarillo so any contest in the direction of Lubbock or beyond he would come down and go with me... Over the next few months we went to either 7 or 8 contest in the area together and wound up flying for first in every one.... As I said earlier I did not go to the Philly nats in 57 but Carl and I started making plans for Glenview (Chicago) in 58.........
RW

PS: Another great guy by the name of Marvin Denny also lived In Amarillo at the time and always flew with us......

Author Topic: 50's-60's combat history (Read 48187 times)

Dennis Leonhardi