News:


  • April 24, 2024, 12:10:42 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: 4-stroke Era  (Read 2290 times)

Offline Peter in Fairfax, VA

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1109
4-stroke Era
« on: March 07, 2021, 01:29:40 PM »
Were 4-strokes ever tried for stunt?

Am I correct that there was an era where 4-strokes were popular, or at least tried?  When was that?  How did it go?  What airframes were found suitable?  There was a recent inquiry as to what 4-stroke would fit a Nobler, with some thinking in response that a Fox .35 of the Nobler era was too different in weight, that an ignition era design would better suit the power/weight situation.  What designs suit a 4-stroke?  Just how heavy are they?

Thoughts?

thanks,

Peter

Offline Dan McEntee

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6864
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2021, 03:26:56 PM »
  Hi Peter;
   Yes, 4 strokes have been and are continuing to be used for stunt. Exact time span is foggy in my memory, but at least from around 2000 to current date. Look up Paul Walker's NATS Walker Cup record and the year he won with a Mustang painted like Miss America, it was powered with a 4 stroke, Saito .56 also I think. I have a To Flite Score with a Saito.56 in it that is fun to fly. The 4 stroke is a VERY different type of power plant and they handle way different than 2 strokes. I first flew a 4 stroke model at the SIG contest when Keith Sandberg begged me to try his Brodak Legacy with a Saito .56 in it and IU was impressed and that started me on the path the at least try one. I messed with the Score for over a year while I went through the learning curve and could see both sides of the coin, why some loved them and some hated them! I finally adopted the Bob Reeves philosophy of setting them up and read some where else to not use uniflow tanks, but instead use a normally plumbed tank on muffler pressure, and once I did that I had no more problems. I just finally learned that I had to forget everything I knew about running two stroke engines while flying a four stroke. I use higher nitro fuel, but only about 3.5 ounces at a time to do the pattern. The Bob Reeves style of running them is lower RPM and higher pitch props to take advantage of the torque these things put out. In my Scorer, I run Powermaster YS 20-20 fuel, a 13-6 or 13-7 prop and a Saito specific glow plug on muffler pressure. They are very quiet, so mush so that I have a hard time hearing my engine if there is a lot of back ground noise. Like I said, they are a very interesting power plant. I am not ready to sell off all my other engines just yet, but plan to run these every now and then just for fun. They are heavy, and are great for short nose moment designs where you could use the nose weight anyway. The Score is like that, and Keith Sandberg shortened the nose of his Legacy 1" and it was almost perfect. There is a special section here on Stunthanger just for 4 strokes, so you should check that out. I think all the questions that you could have will be answered there.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline FLOYD CARTER

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4458
    • owner
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2021, 06:24:15 PM »
A couple years ago, I designed a stunter for a Saito 60 four-stroke.  60 inch span, light construction--built mostly from little sticks.  I liked the way it flew, but as Dan noted, the engine "sound" took a while to get used to.  It always seemed to sound "underpowered", although the engine had plenty of thrust for any maneuver.  The 4-stroke seemed to be insensitive to needle valve setting, and it ran the same regardless of fuel mixture!

It was named "4-PUTT"  I wanted the name "4 PUTT PUTT" but I didn't have enough letters to do that.
89 years, but still going (sort of)
AMA #796  SAM #188  LSF #020

Offline Steve_Pollock

  • 2019 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 252
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2021, 10:00:08 PM »
Remi Beringer's Caudron C450 was designed around the Saito 50 4s engine.

Offline John Lindberg

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 393
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2021, 06:52:50 AM »
Peter, we had one member that tried 4-Strokes, did not work very well, as far as I remember, at least he went back to 2-strokes pretty fast, was successful with electric before a back injury sidelined him quite awhile ago.  D>K

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13737
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2021, 09:16:05 AM »
I don't really want to get involved in any more arguments, but there were two *very brief* "4-stroke eras", one in the mid-late 80s, then again in the early 2000s (which ended up with Paul Walker winning the 2003 NATs with a Saito 72). In both cases, something better came along pretty quickly (first tuned pipes, and then electric).

   This was all associated with massive amounts of politics, particularly the second time, so it is not something most people look back on with fondness. It is unfortunate in a way, because 4-strokes are a legitimate alternatives to tuned pipe and electric and far better than most 4-break engines. But you have to know the tricks, and if you don't, you will get frustrated pretty quickly. 4-strokes were also subject to a *massive explosion* of misinformation in as short a time as I would have believed possible, like you took all the nonsense people spewed about 4-2 break engines over a period of decades, and compressed it into a few months.

   I was only an observer, but I learned a lot from watching others (both the knowledgable, and the "promoters"), and there is something there.  Of course, today, there are still better alternatives.

   Brett

Offline Peter in Fairfax, VA

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1109
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2021, 10:04:35 AM »
FYI, according to this post, it was a Saito 56:

> Paul Walker
I used a Saito 56 4 stroke to win the US CLPA Nationals in 2002. The plane was designed for that weight motor. They work OK....just OK.

Offline Dan McEntee

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6864
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2021, 01:01:37 PM »
I don't really want to get involved in any more arguments, but there were two *very brief* "4-stroke eras", one in the mid-late 80s, then again in the early 2000s (which ended up with Paul Walker winning the 2003 NATs with a Saito 72). In both cases, something better came along pretty quickly (first tuned pipes, and then electric).

   This was all associated with massive amounts of politics, particularly the second time, so it is not something most people look back on with fondness. It is unfortunate in a way, because 4-strokes are a legitimate alternatives to tuned pipe and electric and far better than most 4-break engines. But you have to know the tricks, and if you don't, you will get frustrated pretty quickly. 4-strokes were also subject to a *massive explosion* of misinformation in as short a time as I would have believed possible, like you took all the nonsense people spewed about 4-2 break engines over a period of decades, and compressed it into a few months.

   I was only an observer, but I learned a lot from watching others (both the knowledgable, and the "promoters"), and there is something there.  Of course, today, there are still better alternatives.

   Brett


      Well, I don't know why I got interested in them, I just wanted to try them and see if I could be competent with them. At a SIG contest years ago, Keith Sandberg MADE me fly his Legacy set up with a Saito .56 and I liked it immediately. I had a chance to acquire a Top Flite Score with a Saito.56 in it at a good price so jumped on it and started to read up on the subject. After a life time of operating two stroke engines from model airplanes to lawn mowers, to chain saws, motorcycles and go-karts, your mind tends to relate performance with a certain sound and feedback so when I first fired up that Saito and flew the model, I wasn't prepared for what it was going to take to be relatively successful with one. Like I mentioned, I messed with it for almost two years before I finally found what I needed to know and since then I have had pretty good luck with them and acquired a few more for further fun and enjoyment, but still not wanting to get rid of my Tigers and OS engines! Their biggest draw back is weight, I think, so you have to have a model design that lends itself to it. I have Walt Brownell's Hawker Typhoon that he built back when Windy did his with the Z-Tron control, and Walt didn't quite get to where he understood them, but that was pretty early on the second go around of interest in them. But that airplane lends itself well to a heavy engine due to it's short nose, and Walt designed the model around a OS FS.72. They don't come any heavier than that engine I think, a whopping 22 ounces I think for engine, props, spinner and such, but the airframe painted ready to go is only 52 ounces I think, so no way to even drop a ST.60 in the nose with out having to add weight to balance and you will still be at the 80 ounce flying weight that is weighs. But it balances perfectly, and is a huge model so it carries the weight well, and flies amazingly well at that weight. Winter set in and interrupted prop experiments but I think I was getting close with a 14-7 prop and will get back to it soon. Even that big beast is amazingly quiet, and like the score, flying around level you have to wonder if it's going to pull up and over in the wing over!! If you look at my Saito .56 in the Score with who knows how many flights on it, it still looks like new, and only the muffler gets to show the effects of heat. I have seen other guy's engines in both C/L and R/C with 4 stroke engines that look like an  old frying pan with so much carbon and baked on crap it's unbelievable, and they are the ones trying to prop them and run them like a 2 stroke, and I just don't think you can do that. I run Powermaster YS-20/20 all synthetic oil fuel except in the Typhoon, as the tank isn't big enough and I can't get a bigger one in the model, so I dropped down to 15% nitro Cool Power . Take off RPMS are in the 7800 to 8200 RPM range. I have gotten a lot of good comments from people about both, but like I said, I am not going to clear out my two stroke collection of engines!!  But for those that can understand them and the type of power they make, they can be a viable type of powerplant if that is what a guy likes, I think. I agree there are better options available, but you have to understand them and feel comfortable working with them or you will never realize those advantages.  If you just want to have a unique and reliable powerplant for some satisfying flying, it is very capable of delivering that for you.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Skip Chernoff

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1445
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2021, 02:49:34 PM »
Dan...Ya wanna see the world champion of burnt on castor oil....look no further than one of Dan Banjock's Fox 35s.....

Offline john e. holliday

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 22773
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2021, 11:17:44 AM »
I think almost every type of power has been used in aerobatics.  My first 4-stroke was when I was playing with RC.  First step was to read the instructions.   Used electric finger on first run.  After that it was hand started usually on first or second flip.  Remember comber compression is every other rotation of the prop.  I did build and fly the plane Bob Zambelli designed with a 4-stroke.  As stated you have to get used to no loud noise.   Also I discovered that if you went in with the needle too far it would quit.  May nave to dust it off again.

But, when you pick a power source for your flying take time to figure it out.  Even the old Fox took time to get right. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Dan McEntee

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6864
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2021, 12:04:17 PM »
I think almost every type of power has been used in aerobatics.  My first 4-stroke was when I was playing with RC.  First step was to read the instructions.   Used electric finger on first run.  After that it was hand started usually on first or second flip.  Remember comber compression is every other rotation of the prop.  I did build and fly the plane Bob Zambelli designed with a 4-stroke.  As stated you have to get used to no loud noise.   Also I discovered that if you went in with the needle too far it would quit.  May nave to dust it off again.

But, when you pick a power source for your flying take time to figure it out.  Even the old Fox took time to get right. H^^

    Just flipping one through to prime it takes some learning!! You can't get to the venturi on most installations! And that extra revolution with no compression tends to mess with your mind a bit. You have no rhythm developed for it I can usually start my Saito by hand, but always have the electric fingers handy for when it won't. Several years into this program and still figuring that part out!  My motorcycle buddies that are really into 4 strokes say, "It's really simple! The cycles  Suck, Squeeze, Bang and Blow!!" The OS .70 that is in the Typhoon always gets the electric fingers, Too much prop and too much of a beast!!.

   About the time I started to get with the program, I was able to meet and talk with Gilbert Berringer when at Oshkosh for KidVenture. He is one of the leading experts in these things and been running them since the early days of interest in them. His son Remi won the 2006 World Champs I think it was using one? I let him fly my Score on a couple of occasions and he confirmed that I was on the right track and liked the airplane. He makes his own wood props just for 4 strokes but I never thought to ask him if he sells them or not to try. at the time his business was making brake systems and parts for competition motorcycles and full size aircraft. Since then he has sold off the motorcycle part of the business and concentrated on and expanded the full size aviation operation and they make some beautiful components. They are exhibitors at Oshkosh and come out to help and fly model demos at KidVenture.  Nice people !!
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline Bob Reeves

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3415
    • Somethin'Xtra Inc.
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2021, 04:16:39 AM »
Did someone say 4 stroke   :D
I really believe 4 stroke Saitos would have been a much larger player if electrics hadn't taken over just about the time we figured out how to really make a 4 stroke work. My Saitos 56's and 62's never let me down. 2 Advanced wins at Brodak against pipes and electrics. Remember one local contest whear the wind was blowing 15 to 20 and I was the only one in advanced that completed the full pattern. I also believe they would have taken me to the top of expert had I chosen to devote the time.

Yes they do work, go to the 4 stroke section, all the tips and tricks have been posted. Oh and don't get too worried about having to shorten the nose, I flew a Twister that had the cg on the wing leading edge with a Saitos 40 that would turn with the best. My Latency was actually a Legacy as far as numbers. For some reason nobody has been able to explain a nose heavy 4 stroke powered stunt ship doesn't act like it does with a 2 stroke.

Offline Scott Richlen

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2083
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2021, 06:49:15 AM »
Hey Peter!  So, you must have gotten your hands on a 4-stroke?   y1

Windy came to Brodaks one year with his Typhoon that was 4-stroke powered (and also throttle controlled with his Z-tron system).   I thought that it flew quite well but he kept fooling with the throttle during the flight which got sort of annoying and made it hard to get a read on it.

I don't recall seeing too many flights using 4-strokes that looked all that good - I guess a lot of guys felt that they had to fly them fast so they could maintain speed in the maneuvers.  As some of the guys here noted, they apparently take a lot of tinkering with to get everything set up right.   HB~>

Brett noted that 4 cycles came around twice.  I think this is a pretty good example of the "Stunt Lemming" syndrome that affects many participants in the PA community.  It is sort of a combination of leadership or notoriety envy and confirmation bias.  It sort of works like this:

Usually it starts with a top flyer (but it doesn't have to - sometimes it starts with someone's posting or other spread of hear-say) who tries something new and different.  Let's call this something that is new and different "X".  Performance in the PA field being quite subjective, due to confirmation bias he considers this new "X" the best thing since sliced bread (it may or may not be).  And tells his friends.  They, not wanting to be left behind in the race to the Walker Cup, immediately adopt "X".  Their own confirmation bias ensures that it is well received.  At this point it really takes off because, well "you can't be considered a serious stunt flyer if you are not using "X".  Generally,  anyone pointing out the resemblance of "X" to the Emperor's New Clothes is ridiculed.  So "X" hangs around until it is replaced by a new "X".  A major symptom of "Stunt Lemming" syndrome is denial: "Oh no, that's not me."   ;D


Offline Chuck_Smith

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 685
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2021, 06:57:40 AM »
I'd like to see gas in stunt.  Cheap, oil is not a problem, very little fuel required and lots o' torque.
AMA 76478

Online Steve Berry

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 449
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2021, 10:25:04 AM »

Offline SteveMoon

  • 2013 Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 773
    • www.ultrahobbyproducts.com
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2021, 10:35:31 AM »
I flew 4S motors for several years in the early 2000s and thoroughly enjoyed using
these motors. I had my best luck using the OS 52 FS; runner-up would be the Saito 56.
4S motors are very smooth and consistent when run properly. I flew a Bob Hunt designed
Saturn with the OS 52 FS for several years and really liked it. I did not change the nose
moment, tail moment, or any other numbers of the plane. The weight of the 4S motor
was more than a 2S motor of similar power, but the 4S motor used about 4 oz less fuel,
so I did not feel that any changes needed to be made.

Steve

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13737
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2021, 11:12:59 AM »
Brett noted that 4 cycles came around twice.  I think this is a pretty good example of the "Stunt Lemming" syndrome that affects many participants in the PA community.  It is sort of a combination of leadership or notoriety envy and confirmation bias.

   There is no question that "fads" happen, but in this case, the first serious 4-stroke experiments were looking for a replacement for the ST46, which had been discontinued. The ST60 was the obvious alternative, but it had also been discontinued, and some of the ST60 promoters were so off-putting that quite a few people wanted to avoid that entire scene, and the airplanes that seemed ideal for it were also huge and took a lot of muscle to fly. 4-strokes couldn't "run away" like the schneurle wars engines, because of the extremely limited high-RPM breathing. So it was a good alternative, if you could fix the issues, which seem in retrospect to all be related to fuel flow restrictions and air leaks in the stock RC carbs.

    This was all in the 1985-86 time frame, but a much better alternative came along in a few years, so it dropped again until the promoters came back with 4-strokes in the early 2000s. That was a fad for sure, but it definitely works to some degree, in the right hands, and is a train wreck in the wrong hands (just like everything else).

     There's nothing wrong with watching what other people are doing and trying to evaluate it for yourself - in fact, you really *should* pay attention to people who really know what they are doing, otherwise you never learn anything. But simply copying people without knowing why or what problem they are solving usually just winds up with "followers".

    To take advantages of the differences between systems, you have to be able to assess the pros and cons, which are sometimes pretty subtle. So there are a lot of bandwagon-jumpers who adopt a particular engine as "their thing" and stop being objective. If they can get it to run pretty well, it's the best thing they ever had, so they are very enthusiastic about it. That something else that also was set up optimally might be better, well, you have to have had that experience to have a basis for comparison. There were a few days where I thought the ST46 was the greatest thing possible in stunt, what else would you ever need? Because I didn't know any better.

    That evaluation disappeared in about 1/4 lap with a 40VF.

     Unfortunately many, many people have very basic issues with just running engines at all, and the simplest basic setups, despite the fact that a lot it the necessary details were known more than half-a-century ago. You see thread after thread like this in the Engine Setup forum - basically, that is all it is. Not that anyone should feel bad about it, but if you can't (for example) figure out what venturi to use just to get it started and running reliably, and jump around by factors of 2 or more at random, you have no hope of evaluating the merits of a perfectly-configured ST46 VS a perfectly-configured Saito 56.  Again, this is not something to be ashamed of, but this is a function of the *huge* range of skills we deal with here and in stunt in general - from the most novice sport fliers to world champions.

    Brett

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3997
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2021, 07:52:57 AM »
I had a Flite Streak with a Saito 30. The nose was shortened to get the cg right. As such the tank was mounted inboard.

In the air level flight would be running rich, but in maneuvers it leaned out giving me a 4/8 break 👍
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13737
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2021, 10:52:29 AM »
I had a Flite Streak with a Saito 30. The nose was shortened to get the cg right. As such the tank was mounted inboard.

In the air level flight would be running rich, but in maneuvers it leaned out giving me a 4/8 break 👍

  It's not a 4-8 break, but, you don't need to change "phase" , i.e. include misfires, to have the same effect, that is, coming closer to ideal firing under load. Same thing with a 40VF - it runs in a constant 2-stroke, but the power variations in a 2-stroke can be adjusted from too little to too much pretty easily. Same again with a 20FP run as recommended - its running medium 2 in level flight, and hard 2 in the maneuvers. Set it too lean and it goes "over the top" "lean".

   The same effects happens even with ignition engines with a constant fuel supply pressure - like a LawnBoy lawnmower! It runs with no misfire under light loads, so it's not 4-stroking, but when you hit heavy grass, it slows down but runs more cleanly, inhibiting further RPM drop.  It's essentially a thermal effect.

    As far as I can tell, this - firing cleaner as  load is applied - is *required* for a successful stunt engine. 4-2 breaks were only one case, but there are clearly others. It's also why putting a 9-4 on an ST46 doesn't fly the airplane nearly as well as the same prop on a 20FP. The 46 has to be too lean to get the necessary RPM, same with any other engine from the 4-2 break era (aside from maybe the Veco 19bb).

    One of the early issues with 4-strokes in stunt was that if you didn't run it rich enough, or anything restricted the fuel flow to the same effect, you got *nothing* in the maneuvers. And it was very difficult to tell when it was set too lean or leaning out because "slow because it is too rich" sounds about the same as "slow because it is too lean".   In several cases I saw  remarkable improvement from running clunk tanks. At the 2001 or 2002 NATs , on the advice of Brad "Godzilla" Walker, Uncle Jimby was flying his 4-stroke airplane at 4.8 second laps just to get enough overhead tension. Switch to a clunk tank, and he could run it *half a second* slower with no other changes because it wasn't sagging lean overhead any more. I think that is the important thing about YS 20/20 "4-stroke" fuel - it's not the chemicals or the chemical reactions, it's just lower viscosity since it is all synthetic.

   David was not there at the time, but David and I have since spending a lot of time on the fuel supply and intake system on our 2-strokes to tremendous effect, particularly on the 75 - which is sucking 8.5 ounces per flight, operating on the theory that the difference in the 4-stroke case was fuel flow restrictions.

     Brett

Offline proparc

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2391
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2021, 02:59:59 PM »
   
     Unfortunately many, many people have very basic issues with just running engines at all, and the simplest basic setups, despite the fact that a lot it the necessary details were known more than half-a-century ago. You see thread after thread like this in the Engine Setup forum - basically, that is all it is. Not that anyone should feel bad about it, but if you can't (for example) figure out what venturi to use just to get it started and running reliably, and jump around by factors of 2 or more at random, you have no hope of evaluating the merits of a perfectly-configured ST46 VS a perfectly-configured Saito 56.  Again, this is not something to be ashamed of, but this is a function of the *huge* range of skills we deal with here and in stunt in general - from the most novice sport fliers to world champions.

    Brett

Absolutely, totally, irrevocably true!!!
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline Bob Reeves

  • 2016 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3415
    • Somethin'Xtra Inc.
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2021, 03:09:34 AM »
Just for the record, I went with 4 strokes simply because I could be competitive with a $100.00 engine against pipes and $400.00 engines. Like new Saitos 56s could be bought off an RCer all day for $100 - 150.00, I used $5.00 wood props and 4 ounces of ys20-20 for the patten.

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3997
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2021, 08:25:38 AM »
  It's not a 4-8 break, but, you don't need to change "phase" , i.e. include misfires, to have the same effect, that is, coming closer to ideal firing under load.

     Brett

Come on, Brett it was a joke!

Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Scott Richlen

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2083
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2021, 10:08:21 AM »
Quote
Come on, Brett it was a joke!

What?  Noooooo!

I was going to get a 4-stroker just so I'd be the only guy with a 4-8 break at the field!

Way to crush my dreams..... :'(

Online Brett Buck

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 13737
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2021, 02:19:49 PM »
Come on, Brett it was a joke!

  You might know better, but I know for absolute dead certain that a lot of others didn't get it, and also, they don't get the other aspect. A lot of people think the classic 40VF 2-stroking is a "constant speed" run, for example.

    The idea that the engine needs to be set to fire more strongly under load is *absolutely critical*, and as far as I can tell, nearly a mandatory condition for a successful stunt engine. So I took this opportunity to elaborate.

     Brett

Offline Larry Renger

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3997
Re: 4-stroke Era
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2021, 05:05:05 PM »
Well, it did work as well as if it was really a 4/8 break and sounded like it if you could hear the engine over the 2 strokes at the field.

The first time I flew the plane in competition, the judjes thought my engine had quit until the second half of the reverse wingover. They couldn’t hear it! 🤪
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here