OS LA 25 on a Banshee?

[Kafin Noe’man]

I have just successfully restored my old OS LA 25, it runs smooth on the bench.
Considering its weight, I was thinking to put it into my 'rebuild' Banshee so I don't need to cut the nose that much to get the CG right.

Do you think this engine will give enough power, since the plane is designed for .29 - .40 size engine?
Any thoughts? Or has anyone tried this combination?

[Dan McEntee]

 I have flow LA.25s on Twisters ( not a lot of difference) and they are just adequate to get the plane in the air and beginner stunt type maneuvers. Depending the wood in the original kit, and what ever weight you added in your repairs, it may come out a bit heavy. Try it with a 10-4 APC spinning close to 10,000 and see what you get.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Kafin Noe’man]

Mine is approximately in between 35 and 40 oz.
I still need to glue some parts to have the final weight measurement.

[Ken Culbertson]

I have just successfully restored my old OS LA 25, it runs smooth on the bench.
Considering its weight, I was thinking to put it into my 'rebuild' Banshee so I don't need to cut the nose that much to get the CG right.

Do you think this engine will give enough power, since the plane is designed for .29 - .40 size engine?
Any thoughts? Or has anyone tried this combination?

Keep in mind that the 29-40 engine recommendations are for the older generations.  A good LA 25 is about the same power as a Fox 35 for which this plane was designed.  I agree with Dan though.  The Banshee and Twister do not perform well underpowered or flying slow.  Is your weight, finished or unfinished, w w/o engine?  40oz with everything is about top weight for the 25.  For modern power (LA40-46 for example) the low 50's is about right.

Ken

[Steve Scott]

I flew a mostly stock FP25 on a Fancherized Twister.  The engine ran well (some asked if it was a piped setup) but I'd likely go to a .40 on my next Twister or Banshee - expecially if using kit wood.  I believe I was using a 9-4 APC and a brass spraybar.

I know Sina Goudarzi did very well with a Stuka Stunt-modded FP35 in his flapped Force when he moved up from advanced to expert.

[Kafin Noe’man]

Keep in mind that the 29-40 engine recommendations are for the older generations.  A good LA 25 is about the same power than a Fox 35 for whjch this plane was designed.  I agree with Dan though.  The Banshee and Twister do not perform well underpowered or flying slow.  Is your weight, finished or unfinished, w w/o engine?  40oz with everything is about top weight for the 25.  For modern power (LA40-46 for example) the low 50's is about right.

Ken

Hi Ken, long time no talk to you!

My weight now is for the unfinished with everything else (engine, prop nut, spinner, land gear, fuel tank, pushrod) get weighed as well. The wing is already covered with Monokote, I plan to only dope the fuse just to make it fuel proof.

[Kafin Noe’man]

I flew a mostly stock FP25 on a Fancherized Twister.  The engine ran well (some asked if it was a piped setup) but I'd likely go to a .40 on my next Twister or Banshee - expecially if using kit wood.  I believe I was using a 9-4 APC and a brass spraybar.

I know Sina Goudarzi did very well with a Stuka Stunt-modded FP35 in his flapped Force when he moved up from advanced to expert.

Great to know!

I guess I’m just gonna give it a try with the LA-25 while I’m currently rebuilding my ENYA SS 30 as well.

Hopefully I can restore the ENYA back to life.

This Banshee will be a trainer plane for my friends to learn to fly sport/casual C/L. I will be flying Cardinal and Vector 40 more in order to learn more stunts.

[Paul Taylor]

The Banshee is the sister plane to the Twister. 35-40 size plane.
You will not be happy with the LA 25 unless you can keep it very light.
IMHO put a LA 46 on it and don’t look back. 😉

[Robin_Holden]

Hi from North Yorkshire , England.

My Banshee has an early B40 .
Shortened nose.
10.5 x 5 Bolly prop’.
Around 10,200 at launch.
66 foot lines.

Terrific combo.

[John Carrodus]

Hi Kafin. Sounds like you will not end up with a lightweight plane. The Banchee is a fairly large rig for an LA 25 and it sounds too late now to lighten her without major surgery, turning it into swiss cheese.  Which is an option by the way that can be used, but I can hear the shaking of heads in disapproval 
If you are keen to get your mates flying and short of resources, take Dan's advice on props and go for it. She might stagger about on shorter lines enough to at least get your friends interested. 

[Kafin Noe’man]

Here’s the video of my flying practice with Banshee and OS LA 25.


Prop is 10x6
Fuel is Byron 5% Nitro

[Dan McEntee]

Here’s the video of my flying practice with Banshee and OS LA 25.


Prop is 10x6
Fuel is Byron 5% Nitro

    What brand of prop? The engine sounds like it's over loaded. On my LA.25's I see this when I go higher than 4 inch pitch. I mostly run APC 10-4 props and if it's a smaller model such as the Ringmaster I just cut the prop down 1/4 to 1/2" . Fuel should be OK. It looks like it's pulling the model but running a 6 inch pitch prop will tend to make it run lean and bog the engine down. Gather up some different 10X4 prop sand experiment to see which one works best. You will be in the high 9000 to 10,000 RPM range but the engine will make more power and be happier.

  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[John Carrodus]

Kafin I'm impressed with your progress. I see you are stretching out the top of the loop almost into a short burst of inverted flying. Perhaps mentally practice a lazy 8 and give one a go soon. Take Dan's advice on the prop. I'm pleased at how well she flies with an LA 25. Great stuff.

[Ken Culbertson]

You are ready for a lazy 8.  Do a loop a bit more into the wind than you would do otherwise then as it is coming around from the top just go from up to down.  I would give in nearly full down the first time.  It will flip over pretty quick so as soon as you are upright again level off wherever you are, fly out the rest of the tank and pop open a beer!  You are a stunt pilot!

Ken

By the way, your LA25 is plenty of power for now.  Pulls it real nice.

Ken Again

[Brent Williams]

Good progress! 
What is the weight of your Banshee?

[John Park]

Kafin I'm impressed with your progress. I see you are stretching out the top of the loop almost into a short burst of inverted flying. Perhaps mentally practice a lazy 8 and give one a go soon. Take Dan's advice on the prop. I'm pleased at how well she flies with an LA 25. Great stuff.

And of course, the lazy 8 is the gateway to confidence in inverted flight - it ensures that you automatically apply 'down' if you feel the model getting away from you!

[Kafin Noe’man]

    What brand of prop? The engine sounds like it's over loaded. On my LA.25's I see this when I go higher than 4 inch pitch. I mostly run APC 10-4 props and if it's a smaller model such as the Ringmaster I just cut the prop down 1/4 to 1/2" . Fuel should be OK. It looks like it's pulling the model but running a 6 inch pitch prop will tend to make it run lean and bog the engine down. Gather up some different 10X4 prop sand experiment to see which one works best. You will be in the high 9000 to 10,000 RPM range but the engine will make more power and be happier.

  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

The prop brand is JF.
With this 10x6 prop, the RPM was at 9500-ish.

Okay, I will try putting 10x4 prop and see the difference.

[Dan McEntee]

The prop brand is JF.
With this 10x6 prop, the RPM was at 9500-ish.

Okay, I will try putting 10x4 prop and see the difference.

    If you have access to a pitch gauge, check the prop you are using. In my experience, going from a 10-4 tp a 10-5 APC makes for serious RPM reduction, and I have questions on whether you could even get to 9500 with out the engine leaning out and bogging. I have learned to always check a prop to make sure the pitch is what it is supposed to be. I just dealt with a RSM 10-6 that would not rev on a OS MAX-S .35 like it should and found one blade that measured over 7! This might not be the fault of who ever made the prop. Lots of things can make a wood prop change. Just make sure that bot blades measure the same, and if you can't access a pitch gauge, try several of the same make of prop to see if they all perform the same.. Most plastic props are as they are advertised, with the exception of Master Airscrew. It will measure 1" less on a Prather pitch gauge, as Windsor Propeller has a different way of measuring pitch. I'm trying to keep in mind that you may not have access to the props and tools that most of us do.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
  Type at you later,

[Colin McRae]

The OS 25LA manual mentions an acceptable prop range from 9-4 thru 10-5. Maybe try a 10-5 prop and see what you think.

I have an OS 40FP on my Banchee and run an 11-4 prop. The 40FP is overkill for the banshee, but I run it a bit rich (lower rpm) and it flies fine/w plenty of power for maneuvers. Also 4-2-4's.

You can also try 10 (or 15) nitro for a bit more power.

[Kafin Noe’man]

Hi all,

I just wanna share my stunt training progress here.
Still focusing on Wingover and Inside Loop — trying to make two and three consecutive loops before going to learn the Lazy 8.

The video is highlighting the stunts only.




Best,
Kafin

[Dan McEntee]

    The loops near the end of the video looked to be about the proper size. In the beginning of the video they were a bit small and the consecutive loop was getting smaller yet. This is common for people learning the pattern. Making them too small kills your speed and loses line tension. Keeping them the correct size helps maintain your speed. The speed of the model looked OK, I think I timed a lap at 5.4 seconds. A little faster would not hurt, just a tenth of a second or two, if you think you need it. Now you need to learn outside loops to unwind your lines! Getting the lines too twisted from too many inside loops can make them get stiff and bind. This is the reason why the official pattern is the way it is, so that you wind and unwind your lines as you go through the patterm
   Keep it up!
   Dan McEntee

[Kafin Noe’man]

Thank you, Dan.

That’s what I thought as well.
At the near end of the video, I was feeling more comfortable and confidence, yet I could calm down myself when doing it.

I’m getting to know the trick on how to do it better now. One lesson I learned was I need to know the right tempo, especially when trying to do the consecutive loops, don’t give input too early for the second and the third loop — try to do with the same tempo like the first loop.

My next flight after the video was much better, I managed to do consecutive loops with the same size between the first loop and another.

Thanks a lot for all the inputs I’ve received so far from the Stunthanger community.
It really helps!


Best,
Kafin

[john e. holliday]

When I first started doing the full pattern I started talking to my self.   I was asked a few times who I was talking to.  My answer- myself.  I have a tendency to get hyper when I fly.  Doesn't matter if before the judges or just flying.  Ant keep making it fun.

More.  I see the wing over being done.  Try giving down control as you go past the top of the circle.  Make turn on the way down.  That is how I taught myself to do square out side loops.  Also start doing lazy 8's and work on making the loops round or bigger.  There is so much to learn .  Especially when you have no one to fly with.

[Dan McEntee]

Thank you, Dan.

That’s what I thought as well.
At the near end of the video, I was feeling more comfortable and confidence, yet I could calm down myself when doing it.

I’m getting to know the trick on how to do it better now. One lesson I learned was I need to know the right tempo, especially when trying to do the consecutive loops, don’t give input too early for the second and the third loop — try to do with the same tempo like the first loop.

My next flight after the video was much better, I managed to do consecutive loops with the same size between the first loop and another.

Thanks a lot for all the inputs I’ve received so far from the Stunthanger community.
It really helps!


Best,
Kafin

   I think you are starting to get it. There is nothing automatic about flying a C/L model even when flying strait and level. When doing the maneuvers, you are making subtle control inputs all the time. Good line tension is important for that and also placing the maneuver properly down wind is important also. Just keep up the practicing and doing things the same way each time.
   Out of curiosity, what prop were you using in this latest video?
  Have fun!!
  Dan McEntee

[Ken Culbertson]

Let me piggy back on Dan.  I was typing nearly exactly what he said when my dog decided it was time for a walk.  You don't say no to my Dog. My concern was the wrapping of the lines.  Anything over 3 is noticeable and over 5 starts to become dangerous.  You need to start going outsides, not so much for the lines as for the muscle memory you are building up.  You have to train your brain to accept upright and inverted exactly the same if you ever want to become competitive in stunt.  From what I saw on the video, you are ready.  However, from what I saw on your earlier video's trying an outside loop is not where you want to start.  It should be the lazy 8 or what I thought was a super suggestion from Dan to give it some down at the top of a wingover.  It is important for you to know that your plane will turn outside, and fly inverted just like it does upright.  That is not a given until you try it. 

If you are going to try the lazy 8, and I hope you do soon, do it for the first time on a day with a mild wind.  One of the reasons we like it is that the plane does not slow down much which makes that 1/2 outside loop back to level easier for the plane.  It also gives you a cushion, especially with a little wind, should the engine not want to run well inverted, or the tank is flawed.  You won't know either for sure till you try it.

Good Luck - Keep us posted!

Ken