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Author Topic: 2021 CLPA US National Championships  (Read 4692 times)

Offline Dave_Trible

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2021 CLPA US National Championships
« on: January 29, 2021, 08:55:31 AM »
Today we begin the official Nats thread for 2021.
Howard Rush has done the official pilots seeding and will post shortly along with explaining the procedure for any who donít understand how it works.
At this time we are recruiting our staff of judges, tabulators, pit bosses, etc., any and all volunteers are welcome and we ask you let us know your interest in helping ASAP.
Your Assistant Director will be Michele Lee
Your Head Judge will be Mark Overmier.
Doug Patterson will be in charge of Classic/N30 and Old Time.
The official dates are June 20-26, 2021.  Unofficial events will begin on the 19th and the site will be open for practice beginning on the 17th.
Until now I have been pessimistic about holding the Nats this year due to the ongoing Corona virus which is considerably worse than last year.  However now I am much more optimistic as it is likely any of us Ďoldstersí who wish to be vaccinated should be able to in plenty of time so as to make the virus a minimal issue for us.  Even so we will continue the protocol we began last year for safety.

With that-Let the games begin!

Dave Trible
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Online Howard Rush

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2021, 03:39:34 PM »
Here is circle seeding for the 2021 stunt Nats.  I did it using the same seeding formula that was used for previous stunt Nats.  The seeding formula is based on Open, Expert, and Advanced Nats placing for the last 10 years.  US team members not attending the Nats during a world champs year are included, ranked the same as Open Nats winners.  I attached a copy of the seeding spreadsheet.  I put the seeding into the Nats stunt tabulation program.  The tabulation program is too big to attach here, but I'll send it to anybody who wants it.  I encourage everybody to look at these spreadsheets and critique them.  Here are the top 20 seeds:

1 Paul Walker
2 Orestes Hernandez
3 Derek Barry
4 David Fitzgerald
5 Chris Rud
6 Kenny Stevens
7 Joe Gilbert
8 Howard Rush
9 Matt Neumann
10 Robert McDonald
11 Kaz Minato
12 William DeMauro
13 Todd Lee
14 Richard Oliver
15 Chris Cox
16 Joseph Daly
17 Michael McHenry
18 Michael Schmitt
19 James Mills
20 Brett Buck

For the top 20 in Open and Advanced for the last ten years, first place gets 20 points, second place gets 19, and so on.  US Team members who were out of town for the WC get 20 points each.  Scores get multiplied by 10 for 2020, 9 for 2019, and so on.  Advanced scores are then multiplied by .5.  William DeMauroís score includes both his Open and Advanced placings, for example.  I combined the Expert and Advanced placings for 2013 and 2014. 

Top score is seeded #1.  Guys who haven't placed in the top 20 in either Advanced or Open in the last ten years are unseeded.  Their assignment to one of the four groups for qualifying rounds is done by random draw.
 
The tabulation program tosses out seeds that are not entered at the current Nats and moves those who are entered up to fill in gaps.  For example, if Paul Walker doesn't show up for this yearís Nats, the tabulation program will bump everybody else up a notch.

This seeding is only used to distribute contestants among circles for qualifying.  It might make the circles more uniform, but it has little effect on the outcome of the contest.  Seeding is not an indication of one's worth as a person, which is obvious for seven cases above.  Here is a crude analysis I did on the effect of Nats qualification rounds seeding: http://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/nats-seeding/

Although seeding has little effect--none at all on the top handful of fliers-- using a formula published in advance removes any arbitrariness about circle assignment.
The Jive Combat Team
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Offline Gary Dowler

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2021, 09:27:44 PM »
Having never been to the Nats, I am considering going this year, if for no other reason than the experience of the event.  If I can arrange the proper time off. Typically how tight are hotels booked up? 

Gary
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2021, 05:01:36 AM »
Gary right now through February reservations are easy.  Years where the Iron Man competition is happening at the same time it's near impossible and quite high priced.  Best bet is to get in early. 

Dave
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2021, 11:19:01 AM »
Just confirmed Mike Stinson will be again running Beginner Stunt among other duties.  He is currently fighting Covid but is recovering.

Dave
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2021, 10:21:31 AM »
Official daily schedule:

Saturday June 19
Practice on grass fields and L pad 7 am till dark  (also likely Friday as well)

Sunday June 20
Beginner and Intermediate  Aerobatics
Location; grass circles
Practice 7 am
Registration 8 am
Pilots meeting 8:30 am
First flight 9 am

Monday June 21
Practice 7 am till dark.
Pilot/airplane processing/appearance judging begins 1 pm,  closes precisely 2:30 pm
Location: Tent at the L pad.
Pilots meeting to follow at the tent.
The Concourse walk and voting will follow.  Since this is outdoors, in the event of rain the walk may be delayed until the following day.  Any change will be posted on the scoreboard.
Judges classroom session TBD
Pilots will receive circle assignments and flight schedules
ENTRIES FOR CLASSIC/N30/OLD TIME will be done at the Pavilion before and after the Pilots Meeting (preferred) and at the field Tuesday morning.

Tuesday June 22
Practice 7 am till dark
Classic, Nostalgia 30, Old Time Stunt
Location; grass circles unless washed out due to rain-then the L pad.
8 am Pilots meeting
8:30 am first flight
Judges flight training TBD

Wednesday June 23
Judges warm up flights Circle 4, 7 am
Practice 7 till 8 am on the L pad.
Open, Advanced Aerobatics
Location: L pad, and for all remaining events
7 am Judges warm up flights Circle 4
8 am Qualifying round 1 begins per circle assignments
After lunch break round 2 will begin

Thursday June 24
Judges warm up flights Circle 4, 7 am
Practice 7 till 8 am
8 am Qualifying resumes rounds 3 and 4
Announcement of Qualifiers follows conclusion of flying
Circle and flight order assignments issued

Friday June 25
Judges warm up flights Circle 4, 7 am
Practice 7 till 8 am
8 am Advanced Finals, Open Semi-Finals ( Top 20*)
Presentation of Winners Advanced and Open Top 5 assignments follows the conclusion of flying
Junior and Senior processing and appearance judging at the Pavilion.



Saturday June 26
Judges warm up flights Circle 4, 7 am
Open finals begin 8 am, Circles 3 and 4
Junior and Aerobatics Circle 2
Awards presentation follows the conclusion of flying

Notes:
* If the Open and/or Advanced entry level is below a certain threshold it is possible:
     1. There may be a reduced number of pilots moving forward into final rounds.
     2. The number of circles used could be reduced. This could also occur with a shortage of judges.
Please stay aware of your circle/pit assignments and get there early.  DON'T make the staff come track you down.  We do not have time or manpower to do this.  If you are not in place and ready to fly on time you MAY be called with an attempt.  Be aware in later rounds some pilots choose to 'pass' which will move your flight time forward rapidly, be prepared. We suggest you get into the pits when the fourth flight ahead of you is airborne.  If you have conflicts with other events let the management know ASAP and we may be able to work around them with limitations.
Further instructions will be given at the Pilots Meeting.
We will be monitoring any foul weather closely and will shut down operations for safety if necessary.  Pop-up storms are common in Muncie.
Please be virus-conscious and respectful of other's space.  Cleaning materials will be made available.

Thank You

the Management


« Last Edit: February 01, 2021, 10:46:20 AM by Dave_Trible »
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2021, 12:19:38 PM »
Today Iíll present the covergirl for the Official 2021 ďI made the cut ď T shirts for Nats Open and Advanced Qualifiers:
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Offline Paul Walker

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2021, 06:57:40 PM »
Today Iíll present the covergirl for the Official 2021 ďI made the cut ď T shirts for Nats Open and Advanced Qualifiers:

Gee, maybe I'll get one!  😈😈😝😂😂

Offline Gary Dowler

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2021, 08:37:59 PM »
Dave, thanks for the details. Is there any detail available for scale ? Specifically, sport scale?

Gary
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2021, 04:57:45 AM »
Gary I'm sorry I don't keep up with that.  Keep an eye on the scale section here.  Allen Goff will add details there.   Paul the shirts were a hot commodity last year-you may have to really work for one.......;-)).

Dave
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2021, 12:56:42 PM »
Nats registration is NOW OPEN  on the AMA website!!!

Dave
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Offline Shorts,David

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2021, 01:27:24 PM »

  Seeding is not an indication of one's worth as a person, which is obvious for seven cases above. 

 LL~ LL~ LL~
Thanks for a good laugh today, Howard.

David

Offline Matt Piatkowski

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2021, 11:37:48 AM »
Hi Dave,
Where exactly I have to go to register for the Advanced Stunt during the 2021 NATS?
Thank you,
Matt

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2021, 12:13:24 PM »
Matt go to the AMA website.  Peck your way into the Ďeventsí section and you should find the on-line entry form.

Dave
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Offline Matt Piatkowski

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2021, 01:33:55 PM »
Dave,

The AMA website did not allow me to use the on-line entry form without login.

I have tried to register myself using my email address and newly created password but it did not work.

Now what?

 

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2021, 01:53:09 PM »
If you are a member and then a registered on line user it should work.  If is a computer issue then Iíd just call AMA tomorrow.  I havenít had reason to try it myself this year but maybe will try to ďenterĒ myself and see if itís all working.  Yolanda was tweaking it just a couple days ago and I had her make a small correction.  Iíd still assume itís live.

Dave

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Online Alan Buck

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2021, 02:56:50 PM »
i had to call to register  tried web site not up March 1
ALAN E BUCK

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2021, 03:03:53 PM »
I just looked at it.  It seems to be up and going..

Dave
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Offline Matt Piatkowski

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2021, 07:37:26 AM »
Hi again Dave,
I am Canadian from Toronto, Ontario.
My MAAC # is 89300.

Do I have to become also the AMA member for one year for $ 75 USD to participate in the Advanced Stunt contest during 2021 US Nats?

Technical question: I know that people flying electric stunt in the US Nats must have the "Safety Plug" in their models.
This plug, in my opinion, is redundant and I can explain why.

I know that AMA electric stunt rules were created many years ago when the timers were a bit shaky. It was understandable then to have a "Safety Plug" to prevent an accidental motor start.
Now, the timers are rock solid and the "Safety Plug" is just another 1/2 oz.

Can you connect me with somebody who can discuss this issue with me?
Thank you,
M


Online Brad LaPointe

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2021, 09:40:29 AM »
Matt,

MAAC members can fly in the United States without AMA membership. AMA members can fly in Canada without MAAC membership.

The big question is will you be able to go to the U.S. anytime soon . My guess until we achieve much lower infection rates and 70 - 80% vaccination rates the border will remain closed except for essential personnel. You can fly to the U.S. (for now) but it will cost you $2000 for a quarantine hotel room upon return .

Brad LaPointe
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2021, 10:10:52 AM »
The big question is will you be able to go to the U.S. anytime soon

Just say you are an asylum seeker and come in through the Mexican border.  Everybody gets in again and there is no Covid-19 check or quarantine.
May have a hard time explaining the models but you could ship them to someone in Muncie.

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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2021, 10:16:52 AM »
Matt,  Brad knew something I didnít about not needing an AMA license across the border (thanks!).  However the software program might still be looking for an AMA number to proceed electronically.  You better just call them to inquire. 
Brad may also be correct about how things go with virus.  Time will tell us.
Your last issue about the safety plug is totally non-negotiable.  These rules are put in place by the Controline Contest board and a discussion with Ďanyoneí about that is pointless.  Having witnessed an electric airplane stop and start on its own four or five times in one flight at our last team Trials I completely understand why the rule. 

Dave
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Offline Matt Piatkowski

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2021, 10:40:07 AM »
Hello Brad,
This is what I thought but I will call AMA tomorrow to be absolutely certain.

Going or not going there because of Covid is another issue - the next three months will show.

Hi Dave,
Ok. I will have the "Safety Plug" installed in my planes.

Comment: there are many rules, not only in the C/L Stunt World, that were valid and needed when they were created many years ago.
                 I know also that the people involved in the C/L Stunt in the US, Canada, and F2B in the EU are very traditional and do not like changes.

It is not that scary to evaluate the merit of the rule. Nobody will "lose face" in the process.
The main problem may be a lack of technical knowledge in the particular area.  In other words " we do not know therefore it is better to do nothing".

Regards,
M

 



 



Online Brett Buck

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2021, 11:01:22 AM »
Technical question: I know that people flying electric stunt in the US Nats must have the "Safety Plug" in their models.
This plug, in my opinion, is redundant and I can explain why.

I know that AMA electric stunt rules were created many years ago when the timers were a bit shaky. It was understandable then to have a "Safety Plug" to prevent an accidental motor start.
Now, the timers are rock solid and the "Safety Plug" is just another 1/2 oz.

Can you connect me with somebody who can discuss this issue with me?

     How about me, since I wrote it? 

    Technically, you don't have to have an arming plug - you can just hook up the battery with the regular connector, you just have to have someone hold on to it until it is disarmed again.

    But you are going to have to do that, because, we are not going to rely on low-level logic states to not glitch the timer "on" unexpectedly. Nothing whatsoever has changed about the underlying problem since the rule was written (or in fact when the problem first became apparent in aerospace electronics in the 60's). This is also a relatively new rule, I was waiting for some of the usual suspects to write the same thing (since there was near-universal agreement on the topic).

   Note that this  removable connection *must be mechanical*, that is, it has to physically disconnect the battery - no transistor switches or SCRs, etc. 

      Brett

p.s. start here:

https://stunthanger.com/smf/rules-discussions/potential-new-rule-for-electric/

I would also note that this was a de facto NATs safety rule *before* it was in the AMA rule book, and that the original rule was a bit more restrictive than it is now. I think got in the rule book in 2013.

Online Brad LaPointe

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2021, 11:10:51 AM »
Politics will probably determine when the border opens . It would be political suicide to open the border and have another outbreak.

When the party in power keeps talking about a return to normal and the vaccinations to be widespread by September it would shock me if the border reopened before then . My guess is that about that time   frame if things are going well Canada will probably be headed for a federal election. Stay tuned .

Brad

Offline Matt Piatkowski

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2021, 01:16:32 PM »
Hello Brett,
On October 02, 2011, you wrote: "  I think that unplugging the battery constitutes a "mechanical" connection....".

Exactly.

During the official stunt / F2B contest there is always somebody holding the electric model while the pilot, after connecting the battery, waving to the judges, and flipping the electrical switch, walks to the handle.

The safety plug ( arming plug ) is completely redundant if the helper is present and he is.

M






 




Online Dennis Nunes

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2021, 02:10:16 PM »
There was a situation that happened at last years NATs involving Paul Walker's first flight in the Open Finals. If I recall the events correctly, Paul had just finished his flight and his helper who was attending to the plane had not secured or "disarmed" the plane by pulling his arming plug. By the time his helper disarmed the plane, Paul inadvertently switched the handle from his right hand to his left hand "before" his helper disarmed the plane. This resulted in Paul receiving a 0 score for his first flight. Is this a correct interpretation of this rule?

Dennis
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Online Howard Rush

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2021, 02:26:25 PM »
No.
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2021, 03:14:27 PM »
Hello Brett,
On October 02, 2011, you wrote: "  I think that unplugging the battery constitutes a "mechanical" connection....".

Exactly.

During the official stunt / F2B contest there is always somebody holding the electric model while the pilot, after connecting the battery, waving to the judges, and flipping the electrical switch, walks to the handle.

The safety plug ( arming plug ) is completely redundant if the helper is present and he is.

M


    I have built more R/C electric sailplanes than electric c/l models years ago. Well, in fact I have never built an electric c/l model! But we always used an arming plug in addition to a switch back then. Unplugging the battery may suffice to meet the rule, but on many full fuselage models, installing the battery is a bit complicated, requires a lot of handling of the model  and such and it's just not convenient to easily plug and unplug the battery. An arming plug can be incorporated in a way that it is easy for the helper or pilot to do with one hand while hold the model with the other, and still make them pleasing to the eye so to speak. It's very little work to do but well worth the effort considering the power we are talking about that these things put out now.
    Type at you later,
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2021, 03:47:20 PM »
There was a situation that happened at last years NATs involving Paul Walker's first flight in the Open Finals. If I recall the events correctly, Paul had just finished his flight and his helper who was attending to the plane had not secured or "disarmed" the plane by pulling his arming plug. By the time his helper disarmed the plane, Paul inadvertently switched the handle from his right hand to his left hand "before" his helper disarmed the plane. This resulted in Paul receiving a 0 score for his first flight. Is this a correct interpretation of this rule?

  Not of the current rule book version. It may well be a correct implication of the special NATs rule regarding this (that predated the official one). The initial version (before 2011) was that removing the safety thong before disarming the model was not allowed. I intentionally removed that based on comments here, and the altered version is the one in the rule book.

    It's OK to have different rules for the NATs, and I have to admit I wasn't paying any attention to what was briefed at the pilot's meeting last year, so I don't know.

   The reasoning behind the rule book version was that we want single-failure safety, that is, if it starts unexpectedly, someone also has to drop the handle before it is unsafe. So just holding the handle is good enough, including handing it off to your helper while you go to disarm the airplane.

     Requiring the safety thong, too, is dual-failure tolerant, because if the airplane starts unexpectedly AND you drop the handle (two failures, not one) then you still have the thong backing you up. It's OK to be safer, but this does exceed the levels of margin/tolerance we use for everything else in stunt (like the pull test) and does cause minor operational restrictions like not being able to hand off your handle to someone else.

      If it had been me, and I hadn't paid attention (which is shame on me), I would have expected the rule book version, and may have gotten burned on the same issue were I flying electric.

    I don't know what version will be used, but fortunately, we know the CD!

     Brett

     

Offline Matt Piatkowski

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2021, 10:33:34 AM »
I have created a separate thread titled " Safe Arming of Electric Stunt Models" in http://stunthanger.com/smf/rules-discussions.

Thank you,
M

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2021, 12:46:34 PM »
Got an email from Mark Weiss telling me the RC Worlds at Muncie has been canceled.....

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Offline mike londke

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2021, 02:01:44 PM »
Got an email from Mark Weiss telling me the RC Worlds at Muncie has been canceled.....

Dave
Yolanda has already replied on the AMA FB page that nothing has changed for 2021 Nats dates already established. The announcement affects only the F3 events that were scheduled at Muncie in July. I think the decision to cancel F3 World events was probably made due to so many competitors coming from other nations and the problems associated with traveling during the pandemic. Our 2021 Nats should remain unaffected. I do wonder about the Poland 2020 World F2 events rescheduled for 2021. I have read their cut off date for a go/no go decision is 4/30.
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2021, 04:46:49 PM »
Yeah Mike still more questions.  Someone has asked me about if it be possible to move us back to July.   That horse has left the barn but I WILL call Monday to see if it might be caught.  I saw the CL Worlds schedule well in to August.  Lets hope our guys get to go this time.  If so that raises a question;  If they go I'd think we should have a team trials this year for the next team assuming the 2022 Worlds is back on schedule.  Our team would barely be able to get home in time for a trials Labor Day weekend.  How strange would it be to do that in JULY around the typical Nats time-ahead of the 2020/21 Worlds?.. Just food for thought.

Dave
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2021, 04:53:24 PM »
I communicated with AMA today and it looks like they are committed to us staying in June with our Nats.  That's not too many weeks out so start getting your game in order.  I get my first vaccination Friday..........Hope everyone (who will) gets the opportunity in plenty of time.

Dave
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Online Howard Rush

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2021, 08:09:30 PM »
Iíll bump this up to make finding the schedule easier.
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2021, 09:00:07 AM »
We are making progress getting our Nats volunteer crew together but still need a few more brave souls to come forward.  We have eight judges but really need 10 and preferably 12.  Another person for the tabulation team and another pit boss are also needed.   I truly believe that due to the vaccines the virus will be no obstacle to we older crowd to get out of the house.  Perhaps you havenít been to a Nats or itís been a while.  Maybe you are one of our Ďretiredí competition pilots who would like to see old friends and catch up with whatís going on in stuntdom.  Why not join the team?  Let us know soon so we can fill out our empty spots.  Thanks!

Dave
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2021, 10:28:01 AM »
As of this morning we have 8 Open and 10 Advanced entries recorded.  Itís still early but remember the Nats comes early this year so donít let it slip up on you.  That goes for hotel reservations as well.  We havenít received any more volunteers since my last call.  If you plan to help please donít wait too long to let us know.  AMA is already calling for shirt orders for the volunteers and we need to be able to adjust how we do things based on manpower.  We eagerly await....

Thanks!

Dave
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Online John Lindberg

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2021, 01:04:54 PM »
Dave, what is the cut-off date for registering (with the AMA) for the Control line Stunt Nats?

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2021, 02:38:22 PM »
Strangely I canít find it on the AMA site.  I think itís about the 30th of May.  If I find different Iíll post it.

Dave
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Online John Lindberg

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2021, 03:03:37 PM »
The AMA web-site does not help much, in my opinion. HB~>

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2021, 12:41:57 PM »
A couple notes...Iíve been told the cut off date for Nats entries without a late penalty is May 1st.
Our pit boss this year will be Larry Fruits.  Thank you Larry!
Iím still in search of a few good folks to judge and perhaps another gal to help out with the tabulation group.  Please come forward.  We will be needing to send our volunteer shirt order in very soon and need to know.  Also without at least a couple more judges we MAY need to revise the computer applications and perhaps reduce the number of circles regardless of the number of entries.  If you think you would like to step up to help please donít delay.

Thanks!

Dave
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Online John Lindberg

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2021, 07:23:40 AM »
A couple notes...Iíve been told the cut off date for Nats entries without a late penalty is May 1st.
Our pit boss this year will be Larry Fruits.  Thank you Larry!
Iím still in search of a few good folks to judge and perhaps another gal to help out with the tabulation group.  Please come forward.  We will be needing to send our volunteer shirt order in very soon and need to know.  Also without at least a couple more judges we MAY need to revise the computer applications and perhaps reduce the number of circles regardless of the number of entries.  If you think you would like to step up to help please donít delay.

Thanks!
Thanks, Dave, that helps.

Dave

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2021, 01:26:56 PM »
Today we have an important announcement.  Due to having a very skeletal cast of characters (crew of judges) our bud Dennis Adamisin brought up an idea to help.  I discussed it with the head judge and a few other key folks and I have decided to implement it for the Nats at least for this year.  For Qualifying rounds we will enlist a few of the PILOTS to help the full time judges to judge a class they arenít flying in.  There will be four each from Open and Advanced.  They will go through the regular judges training on site with Mark Overmier.  We will take a break between flying classes to allow the pilot/judges to move and set up where they need to be.  I already have two volunteers from the Open flyers.  Iíll need two more Open and four Advanced to raise your hand to help.  If youíd like to be one email me .

VegasDave4@gmail.com

Thanks!

Dave
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2021, 03:04:46 PM »
Today we have an important announcement.  Due to having a very skeletal cast of characters (crew of judges) our bud Dennis Adamisin brought up an idea to help.  I discussed it with the head judge and a few other key folks and I have decided to implement it for the Nats at least for this year.  For Qualifying rounds we will enlist a few of the PILOTS to help the full time judges to judge a class they arenít flying in.  There will be four each from Open and Advanced.  They will go through the regular judges training on site with Mark Overmier.  We will take a break between flying classes to allow the pilot/judges to move and set up where they need to be.  I already have two volunteers from the Open flyers.  Iíll need two more Open and four Advanced to raise your hand to help.  If youíd like to be one email me .

VegasDave4@gmail.com

Thanks!

Dave

  I will do it, if all it entails is doing the on-site training flights.  I need to learn how to get up early anyway!

      Brett

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2021, 03:08:12 PM »
Thanks Brett!  Thatís what they make coffee for.  Got you down.

Dave
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2021, 03:10:04 PM »
Thanks Brett!  Thatís what they make coffee for.  Got you down.

Dave

   Where else would one prefer to be than Muncie, Indiana at 7 AM?

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Offline Doug Moon

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2021, 03:26:49 PM »
So,,, you are going to have an Advanced pilot or Open pilot judge an entire group then they go fly?  What?  So when the Advanced judge is up on the his circle the Open group will have to stop and wait the 30 minutes or so it will take to complete that task.  Then he comes back and the Open group starts up again.  I see a logistical nightmare in the making.

When I judged full time it was exhausting. I liked it, I learned alot, I am better flyer for it but I was dead tired at the end of the rounds.  The moons went to bed early all week that week. And that nats wasnt that heavily attended. And I never got my judge shirt or hat... If you're and Advanced flier judging open and there are 8 open fliers on that circle your going to watch 16 flights and fly 2 yourself.  Then do it again the next day.

I think BB volunteered to Fly not judge.....??  Or did I misread that?

There is another way you could attack it.  Example: circle 1 has 7 open fliers.  Flier 1 goes up and the other 6 judge. Flier 2 goes up same other 6 judge etc. etc.. Now you have the fliers in the group judging their own group minus themselves of course because they are flying. Each group has the burden of only their group to judge.  Then when the Open guys are done they move off and the Advanced guys start up and judge the same way.  Everyone will have the same amount of exposure to judging throughout the day and you have covered your judge shortage with people who will already be there. And you have no logistical issue with pilot/judge needing to leave to fly in his order somewhere else.  Just an idea....

Or, if you are running short trying to spread over 4 circles just use 2.  If people dont like that they can volunteer to judge so the competition can go on like normal.
Doug Moon
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2021, 05:06:38 PM »
Doug I know we will have a few logistical things to work out but I don't think it will be that complicated.  To look at an example, let's see what it SHOULD look like on any one circle;  So on Circle 1 we may typically have, say 8 Advanced and 8 Open pilots.  The Advanced usually fly first.  The Open guys sort of 'hang out' for two plus hours and wait their turn.  Ideally one of this Open group grabs a clipboard and judges the Advanced group of eight on his circle.  When the Advanced group is done that circle takes a break for maybe 15 minutes while the Open group gets ready and ONE Advanced pilot grabs the clipboard to judge.  Copy that on on four circles.  The ideal situation would have one Pilot/Judge working with two full time judges.  That could vary depending on who volunteers and where seeding places them (which circles).  If we happen to have two-three volunteers on one circle we may have to partner that circle with another one so that they run and break in unison so the volunteer can go work another circle if need be to judge.  We may find it advantageous to run ALL FOUR circles on the same time table, even if that means one circle finishes an hour early and waits.  We are usually done quite early in the day anyway so we can run a little longer those days if we need to.
Why do all this?  We at best right now have 7 confirmed full time judges and another probable.  To function normally for four circles and to best use our computer programs and so forth we really need about 12 judges.  We simply don't have and I'm not seeing them coming down the road.(This year nor into the future).  If we try to run with what we have only we will likely have to doctor the programming and actually Howard really doesn't have the time to do it right now but even so it still leaves us in a pickle if we lost ANYBODY for any reason.  I think most pilots would really like at least three judges on their circle to more normalize their average score.  We did a couple circles with two last year and it went OK but .......
Another benefit is that in this way we can provide some training and actual experience judging at this level, hopefully creating an enlarged pool of future judging talent.  This is demonstrating we need it.  We could cut circles (maybe) but again possible issues with programs but also a VERY long day for the judges on those first two Qualifying days.  We undoubtedly will find some bumps in the road but thats how we learn.  We have a bunch of very fine minds here involved in the process.  I hope we can spot issues and get out in front of them.

Dave
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Online Howard Rush

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2021, 05:18:38 PM »
There is another way you could attack it.  Example: circle 1 has 7 open fliers.  Flier 1 goes up and the other 6 judge. Flier 2 goes up same other 6 judge etc. etc.. Now you have the fliers in the group judging their own group minus themselves of course because they are flying. Each group has the burden of only their group to judge.  Then when the Open guys are done they move off and the Advanced guys start up and judge the same way.  Everyone will have the same amount of exposure to judging throughout the day and you have covered your judge shortage with people who will already be there. And you have no logistical issue with pilot/judge needing to leave to fly in his order somewhere else.  Just an idea....

It's a way to keep scores down.
The Jive Combat Team
Making combat and stunt great again


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