Beginner's information

[Rick Schwemmer]

Hello to all, new to the forum here and wish to express my appreciation for the add. Looking for threads to explain terms, and technical parameters of C/L.

Items such as what is a reverse Pitch prop, what determines the length of lines, stuff like that.

I am experienced in R/c for over twenty years so I am not completely ignorant, but there are some items I have questions about when I read articles, forums etc. Oh and I flew C/L many years ago.

[Brett Buck]

Hello to all, new to the forum here and wish to express my appreciation for the add. Looking for threads to explain terms, and technical parameters of C/L.

Items such as what is a reverse Pitch prop, what determines the length of lines, stuff like that.

I am experienced in R/c for over twenty years so I am not completely ignorant, but there are some items I have questions about when I read articles, forums etc. Oh and I flew C/L many years ago.

  Reverse pitch means that turning on an conventional airplane, it has to spin the opposite direction (that is, clockwise from the front, as opposed to counter-clockwise). These are also widely mislabelled "pusher" props in RC and some CL.

   The line lengths are limited by the rules to be 26 feet to 70 feet ,from the grip to the center of the airplane .The short end probably shouldn't exist, but it covers the classic Cox Dacron Line set. 70' keeps it on the circle, since most circles have been set up around this from time immemorial. What you actually need for any particular airplane depends on the application and size, classic "35-sized" stunt planes are .015x60', more-or-less. Larger airplanes (above 4 lbs) need .018x60something. People choose their line lengths based on trim and feel considerations, and most people in stunt experiment with variations in the line length of a foot. I routinely carry 2 sets of 64' (eyelet to eyelet) lines, which are my baseline, a set of 63 and a set of 65.

   There is a lot to know about any of these events, and they generally take a lifetime to master (or not...). Just about any topic you can possibly think of, and a bunch that would never occur to you, has probably been addressed at length by someone at some time, and I guarantee that someone here will know about it.

   Brett

[Tim Wescott]

This is hardly comprehensive, but it may help: https://amaflightschool.org/getstarted/beginners-guide-control-line.  Then ask specific questions, and we'll give you specific answers.

Tell us where you are, and someone will let you know if you have any locals who fly.

Reverse-pitch prop means that it turns "backwards" from the usual "clockwise as seen by the pilot" direction for IC engines.

Line length is determined by a lot of things, but it's roughly set by the size of the airplane and how fast it goes, or rigidly set by the event (i.e., combat, racing, carrier and speed are all sensitive to line length, so you gotta do what the rulz say).

If you are contemplating starting out, tell us what you have & what you want to do -- you can start with engine & model, or with the size flying field you have, and we'll help you zero in on a combination that'll work.

[Dwayne]

http://flyinglines.org/

[Rick Schwemmer]

First of all THANK YOU for responding . I do appreciate your time. I flew C/L when I was 10 for about six months. I built (with help of course) a P-51 profile 049. Flew it in circles for about six months until someone yelled" Do a wingover" Well how hard can that be? So I pulled up got to the top and fell over as I watched it become a kit again as it dove straight into the ground. We all a had a good laugh, but I didn't have any money top repair or replace. So now fifty years later, with money in hand I want to try this again.

As for pusher or reverse pitch props, I understand they turn opposite of normal, but dont understand why. I thought you wanted the torque to keep to the outside of the circle.
Oh well Ill learn. I currently live in La Quinta Ca which is 25 miles east of Palm Springs and 100 miles east of Los Angeles. I know of the knights of the round circle but that is 2 1/2 hours not including LA traffic.

As for field... well I have 10 acres of grass so line length shouldn't be  problem. I asked because I wondered if the cul de sac in my front yard was big enough. Almost. it spans 86 feet curb to curb, so I guess I will have to drive two miles to the grass field.

I was thinking of starting out with the Lil Jumping Bean but I am open to any and all suggestions.  Ringmaster, Nobler, etc. Building is not a problem as I currently build scale slope planes.

Again than you for helping out the new guy, even if I am an old fart

[Dave Hull]

For a very first training plane (after all these years) a SIG Baby Skyray is quite good. The Cox Black Widow or similar "big tank" versions work well. Over grass, the plane will mostly bounce. I have been using them for trainers for years. A large fender washer on the outboard tip allows it to fly pretty well even in a good breeze on .008" x 42" stranded steel lines. I would recommend using 30 lb test Spectra (.011" diameter), however. Much easier to handle and far less prone to damage.

I'd build a pair of Baby Skyrays and take 'em both out to the grass field. Keep working on the maneuver you are concentrating on until you have it down. This is much faster than building and smashing larger planes. Takeoffs, straight and level. Then landings. Then wingovers. Then inside loops. I'd go for inverted next, but some guys would probably say lazy eights.

The Jumping Bean would be a step up in performance, since it has a built-up wing. You might also consider a Baby Clown, which when properly powered will do the entire schedule of maneuvers--if the pilot is able. The Bean might too, I just have not tried it. Another good one is the Baby Flite Streak. It will do them all.

A lot of guys will tell you to skip the 1/2A stuff and go bigger. Bigger does have certain advantages. A lot of small planes don't handle the wind well--but can do all right if set up better. Another issue is that some guys just have too much trouble with Cox engines. Mostly this has to do with junk in the fuel (the holes are tiny), the wrong fuel (at least 15% nitro, better at 25% nitro), weak batteries, and old cruddy engines that have stuck reeds, etc. But if you want to learn wingovers, big loops, and inverted flight, you can sure do it with minimal carnage and cost with a 1/2A flattie like the Baby Skyray.

If you want to start larger, you might consider either the SIG Buster or Shoestring with a .15. These are also solid wing planes and rugged. They would handle more wind, and would get you thru the landings, straight and level, and wingovers. Can't say they would loop or not--all mine are built as racers and are probably too heavy to attempt it.

Some of our members are known to commute between the LA area and Havasu. You might be able to work out a flying session...?

Welcome back. Have tons of fun.

Dave Hull
President, Valley Circle Burners (Los Angeles)

[Trostle]

(Clip)

As for pusher or reverse pitch props, I understand they turn opposite of normal, but dont understand why. I thought you wanted the torque to keep to the outside of the circle.

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Just a point for clarification.

Most of our model internal combustion engines turn clock wise (CW) when viewed from the cockpit.  The propellers these engines use, when mounted on the nose, are typically called "tractor" props in this hobby which are the ones that are normally stocked in the hobby shops/mail order houses.

If the same engine is mounted in the tail, it will require a "pusher" which has the pitch reversed from the tractor props.

Yes, the CW turning propellers create a torque that wants to roll the airplane to the center of the control line circle (CCW flight rotation).

Now, if you have an electric motor that turns counter clock wise (CCW), mounted in the nose (again when viewed from the cockpit), you will need that "pusher" prop with the "reverse" pitch.  (Same thing if you have an IC engine set up to run CCW.  These are normally specialty engines when made for control line models flying in a circle in a counter clockwise direction to use the torque to help keep the model from rolling into the center of the circle.)

Many electric powered stunt ships use CCW turning motors so they use what is called the pusher or reverse pitch props.  This helps with the line tension for normal circular flight, but reverses the adverse effects of gyroscopic precession.  Gyroscopic precession is a subject we do not need to get into here.

It is my understanding that full scale aircraft nomenclature refers to propeller rotation as viewed from the cockpit (looking forward with a nose mounted engine).  So, our "normal" IC model engines are turning the "tractor" propeller in a clockwise direction.

Keith

[Rick Schwemmer]

Mr. Trostle,

Thank you for your explanation of reverse/ pusher props. As for gyroscopic precession, I have 25 years of full scale helicopters. I know that term well.
As for the other suggestions of which plane to buy thank you it gives me more information to make the correct choice. I was thinking of the Lil Jumping Bean for my street, but looking at the RingMaster for larger size planes.

[Fredvon4]

Rick brother tell us WHERE you are

Many are no longer able to play airplane and have massive inventory of STUFF
Others just love to help , mentor, coach, hang out and BS

I think any 1/2a is a poor choice to begin on...even with past experience...

IMO best entry into or back into control line is ANY of the traditional .35 powered models
I would even suggest for future ease and makes sense deliberately go electrickery....initial buy is is not much higher than buy in for IC

IC needs fuel proofing, Fuel, Glow driver, Glow plugs, various props, fuel tanks, fuel lines, perhaps a electric starter, batteries, and of course the engine(s)

Electrickery eliminates the need for fuel proof finish, no tank fiddling, no slime on the model, but adds some new learning curve: correct sized Motor, Batteries and charging tools, different propeller combination(s), ESC-Electronic Speed Controller(s) Timers

Tom Dixon sells a UKEY 35  near ARF that is a great trainer
Phil Cartier sells a Rugged Stunt Trainer (RST) that is also a near ARF fast to assemble that is IMO a very good trainer
Brodak has a ARF electric ringmaster worth considering
If any where near one of us old coots bailing out...like me in Central Texas...you can usually hook up, fly a bit, and go home with more airplanes ( and other STUFF) than your car, truck, van can hold

[Tim Wescott]

A smallish 1/2-A plane (like a Lil' jumpin' Bean) will fly nicely on 35 or 40 foot lines, as long as you take care with the wingovers.  You want to use a wimpy motor, like a Wen-Mac or a single-bypass Cox (the Babe-Bee, not a Black Widow or TD).

But even then, you'll spin yourself into the ground.  A larger plane, like one of the ones that Fredvon4 mentioned would work nicely in that larger field on longer lines.  My personal recommendation would be a Sig Skyray 35 built light, with an OS 20FP, a 25LA, or an electric setup.  If you don't like to build, check out Brodaks for ARFs.

[Dan McEntee]

   Hi Rick;
    Welcome to party pal! As Brett mentioned this forum has been around a while, and there isn't a subject that hasn't been discussed at length several times. I suggest you learn to use the search function to the best of your ability. It's my opinion that there are no new problems, just new people encountering them. And different problems for different levels of experience. It is also my opinion that there is no such thing as a bad airplane. There have been countless kits produced, and countless plans published of models of all shapes, sizes and complexity. I encourage people to just follow their hearts desire. Everyone has a favorite or a model in mind that they had/wanted, or that their Dad/Uncle/Granpa  flew. The model world is your oyster! But as Brett also mentioned, it takes a while to learn all this stuff that we all know, and to take things at your own pace and enjoy it. You will get lots of recommendations for everything and just pick what you think fits your purpose and situation. And as Fred mentions, tell us where you are! We can hook you up with a local club possibly, and there is a wealth of excess materials and equipment out there that is becoming available as guys age out and "go West" as they say in the vernacular. And above all, have fun and enjoy the experience.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Rick Schwemmer]

Thank you all. I am overwhelmed at the quick responses which are open to the new guy. As for location I live in La Quinta Ca which is 25 miles east of Palm Springs and 2 1/2 hours east of Los Angeles Ca. When flying R/C my usual drive is over 100 miles.

Again thank you for your words of wisdom and time to help the new guy.

Rick

[John Rist]

Has your RC flying been electric or nitro burners.   The support setup for U-control are the same.   So whichever way you go you may have a head start on power.   Personally I have gone all electric.   Setting up a wet engine for U-control takes a little learning.  Not a big deal but can be frustrating.  Electric also has it's headaches caused by smoke when things go wrong.  Me personally I have a background in electronics and found the electrics to be clean, reliable. and once setup repeatable.   Just some food for thought.   

[Fredvon4]

Rick you have described what I remember as one of the windiest places in CA

check your PMs