please help settle spirited disagreement !!!!!!!!!!!

[Ken Keller]

Thanks in advance for your replies.  You are setting your plane up to take off in the circle , breeze blowing from 12:00 oclock position to 6:00 o'clock position. Where would you position your plane and why ? Stupid question I know , but a very close flying buddy can't figure out why his planes start to come in on him as soon as their released and mine don't. I've tried to get him to change his take off position relative to wind direction , but he won't and his take offs are pretty scarey to say say the least !!! This time planes and the way their set up don't matter , what matters is take off position relative to wind direction ( I believe ). 
                 Thanks for your input and understanding  Ken















                         

[Dan McEntee]

  Well set up of the model is a factor. The model needs to roll straight. I toe in the wheels just a bit to help, just like on your car. If I have a choice, I start in front of the Judges, who are up wind. That helps in getting a nice, gradual take off. If you take off directly down wind, the model can hop off prematurely . A happy medium is somewhere between 90 degrees down wind to the relative wind and directly down wind. The wind should help keep the model out at the end of the lines. If he still has trouble that the problem is still with his airplane.
  Off to see the Eclipse!
   Dan McEntee

[Ken Keller]

Dan, thanks for quick reply. What I'm hoping to do is convince him that taking off directly into the wind is just plain wrong. Eclipse fever has also got ahold of me, lawn chairs are out , grill fired up and cooler filled with beer . Just put my glasses on my head , ribs in the smoker and first ice cold beer in hand. have a great day !!!

[Garf]

I always take off with a tailwind on the plane. Anything else is looking for trouble.

[Brett Buck]

I always take off with a tailwind on the plane. Anything else is looking for trouble.

  Uh, what? Never, ever, release the airplane with a significant tailwind component, it causes flipovers (and if it doesn't, and you can manage this on a regular basis, your wheels are too far forward for good landings). Either that or you get a medal from the Sydney, Australia Chamber of Commerce for contributions to the Australian economy.

      Release the airplane around the 5:30-5:45 position in light air on pavement, going earlier (i.e. further into the wind) as the wind picks up but only enough to ensure you are not going to get a tailwind when you are rolling. The furthest I have done it was around 4:00 at the 2003 NATs in a 25+ mph wind.

   On grass, you put more component on the nose to ensure that you can take off sooner.

   The alternative on pavement is launching dead upwind 12:00 or slightly "later", 1:00, again to ensure that you do not have a tail wind component at release. Once it gets rolling, then the tailwind starts helping rather than hurting.

     Brett

[john e. holliday]

What has worked for this old man, especially using a stooge, I launch a few feet from directly up wind.   Just like launching before you get to where the judges would stand.   Hold neutral controls and stepping back plus the wind on the aft fuselage area keeps the plane tight on the lines.   

[Ty Marcucci]

 

[Terrence Durrill]

I don't fly when it's all that windy.

                          Smart man !             

[Chris_Rud]

Depending on the plane and the wind I either take off directly downwind or up wind with about a 1/8 back clockwise. If its under 8 mph I takeoff upwind and more then 8 directly downwind. When downwind... I find that if I just remember that it wants to jump off the ground I can normally keep it on the ground with a nice gradual rise. I have lost to many ($50) props being anywhere else. 

I have found that I like a little shorter than normal tail wheels since I can give it just a little down (I mean a little) and let the tail come up and then I can just slowly go to neutral and no matter what the wind is I can usually get a nice take off. I have found that if its to long and the plane is almost sitting level on the ground its hard to know where neutral is while the planes rolling and I have nosed over. My opinion on this might change in the years to come but right now its what I like. I also think wing gear is easier to handle for take offs then fuse mounted.

[Fredvon4]

 I know how I do it

I personally consider the 180 degree down wind area as my take off zone... NO competition , no judges, just safe take off using the wind as MY friend

but this thread is terribly confusing to me

IN my case wind is to my Back 1200 hrs so I prefer to set up so I am at 0700 to 0500..... 0700 is slight tail wind, 0600 would be all wind on inside fuselage, 0500 would be slightly into wind... and I prefer 0500

If I consider the wind direction as 180 different and called wind at my back 0600 and in front now 1200 then I prefer a zone from 0100 to 1100

Can some one...Brett...orient me as to what is 1200 o'clock relative to the wind direction

1200 At my back is one way, in my face is another, and the advice on 1 or 4 pm is confusing relative to the 1200 position vs wind direction

I actually learned, real world, that taking off--- into the wind ---was the way it is done... tethered or not.... but did learn that some model planes, with an poor power system, need a little help from a slightly down wind roll out before heading into the wind

[Garf]

I have flown for a LONG time, always launching with a tailwind, till my last flying site which has a fixed launch pad. I rarely had a plane come in on launch. My planes are no where near competition grade, and usually slightly overpowered. I used to fly combat.

[Ken Keller]

Fredvon4, to try and clarify question; you're on a grass field , 12:00 o'clock position is north, 6 o'clock is south , breeze is blowing from the north (12 o'clock position ) to the south (6 o'clock position ) . Where would you position your plane for take off ? Between 11 o'clock and 7 o'clock the plane will have the breeze or wind blowing over the tail and back of the plane, if you position the plane for take off between 1 o'clock and 5 o'clock the breeze will be blowing over the front of the plane and the prop. There are no judges to worry about or impress , this is just pure fun flying , only thing that we are careful about is safety. Also , if the grass is high, we hand launch , if that matters .
                                                                                 Hope this explanation helps. Ken.
                                                                           






'

[john e. holliday]

Garf, that is the way I learned to fly was to take off either ground or hand launch.   Many years later I was told to try the up wind take off just before the judges or imagine there are judges.   Have never had a problem in less the grass wasn't mowed lately.  When hand launching I tell the person not to throw the plane.  Just let it fly out of his/her hands and depart circle immediately.   Also show them how to hold plane in case I accidently have a little up on the controls.  Many a time I've seen guys almost get a buzz hair cut when the plane would go inverted on hand launch.

[Peter Nevai]

If you have plenty of roll out room ( hard surface) then with the wind at your tail or up wind, if you have limited roll out room (higher grass etc) the down wind (wind at your back) or a bit before.

[Phil Krankowski]

You want to have ground speed similar to the desired airspeed as you come into the wind.  Not like RC with straight line runways and nose in is desired, but instead moving properly when the plane comes around the circle becoming nose into the wind.


Phil

[Eric Viglione]

I guess as with a lot of things, "it depends" on your plane, how well you know your plane, and how strong the wind is. If it's a trike plane, where is your C/G, small rudder, huge rudder, does it have more side area aft, or middle, is it a feather weight or a sled, etc. You just have to get a feel for what is best for you.

But... as a general rule, I'll start at 5 o'clock in light winds, and get closer to 6 gradually as the wind grows stronger.

Another important thing to keep in mind is technique. If the wind is howling, you just can't plant your feet and wiggle your wrist and hope for the best. I always will take several small steps back in a sweeping arc to whip the plane off the ground and maintain total control, and keep the elevators neutral until the plane is actually moving at a decent clip. Not easy to do and get that perfect smooth takeoff, but you can come really close, and it beats the heck out of grinding your carbon prop down to a nub if you let the wind get under your tail.

Another aspect to keep in mind is your WHEELS!!!! Sloppy wheels can pigeon toe and nose the plane over in wind, or, if you whip it off the ground like I do, excessive slop in the wheels can bind when you side load the plane with line tension as you whip it and cause the same problems. Best to have the inside wheel set to just roll freely but no slop, and the outboard wheel to spin just slightly less freely, but still free enough so that when you flick it with your finder it goes around a couple turns and comes to a stop.

Lastly is your human stooge. Dale Barry showed me proper launch technique in the wind at the Nats one year... and it works. Never ever lift your hand abruptly vertical over the stab when letting go of the plane, just keep your hands on the same level as you let go and don't jump up, stay still a second and keep acting as a block to the wind on that tail before getting up...

(I hesitate to advocate this because not everyone is in shape or coordinated to do this)... but better still if you are flexible enough, assuming you hold one hand on the wing LE and the other on the stab, drop your wing hand to the ground to support yourself as the plane rolls out and lean forward and follow over the stab with your stab hand at the same level above, not touching, not rising, just parallel, and keep it from popping up for the first foot or two. I've lost count of how many times my palm has been slapped by a stab like that on a windy day, which would have otherwise been a ruined carbon prop at a contest on windy days. Thanks for that one Wizard! I hope my back holds out to keep doing this because it really works.

Well, that's my .02 with inflation FWIW,
EricV

[Paul Smith]

I don't fly when it's all that windy.

Shortest route from the pit area.

[Randy Cuberly]

I don't fly when it's all that windy.

Does that mean that you always dropout of competition when it is windy?  In most competition when the "Experts" fly as it usually is at most multi class contests, it's nearly always "windy" to some extent.
Best to learn to deal with it if you expect to be competitive!

Randy Cuberly

[Steve Helmick]

With a flapped model, you don't want to takeoff with the wind on the plane's tail, which I interpret to be 9 o'clock. The wind will "get under the tail", and it'll likely nose-over. The standard reasoning is that at low speeds the flaps overpower the elevators due to being larger and closer to the prop blast. Keeping at neutral will help on pavement, but dubious on grass. You can get away with it with an elevator-only, but it's probably a bad habit to get into if you fly both flapped & un-flapped, or plan to fly flapped models soon. 

You don't want the model to be heading into the wind at low speed, because it will tend to balloon, jump into the air, or bury itself. 

I've tried launching on the upwind side of the circle, and about soiled myself. "The wind blows on the rudder and yaws the plane out", they said. Not good, IMO. Yes, you can get away with this if flying CW (RH prop) or CCW with a LH prop.

Yet another factor is tipweight. As the model accelerates, the tipweight makes the model yaw nose-outward. Somebody may have too little, or too much.

My preference is to release the plane at about 7 o'clock, i.e., a bit prior to directly downwind. The wind doesn't get under the tail, and accelerates to a good speed before heading significantly into the wind. However, if you're running 6"+ prop pitch then it will accelerate much slower, and you may have a problem and could need to find a different release spot.  Steve

[Paul Walker]

You didn't mention what kind of plane it is.  It does make a difference.

Are you flying FAST combat planes,
Speed planes,
Racing planes,
Stunt planes,
etc....

Power to weight makes a difference.