Author Topic: When the INBOARD engine on a twin quits ---------------------------- (Read 3301 times)

Robert Zambelli · « **on:** October 18, 2015, 08:33:59 PM »

--------------------- BAD THINGS HAPPEN!!

My OTS Twin, Jezebel.
Happened on Friday at Huntersville.

These three photos were taken at 2:00 PM today.

Bob Z.

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #1 on:** October 18, 2015, 08:35:37 PM »

Then, with a bit of ambition, a sharp Xacto, CyA and some Bourbon, I did a repair, as seen in these two photos, taken around 5:30 PM.
Still some sanding and filling to do but it's structurally sound.

Bob Z.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #2 on:** October 18, 2015, 08:37:24 PM »

Is there any rudder or engine offset in the airplane?

Motorman · « **Reply #3 on:** October 18, 2015, 08:47:20 PM »

Jiminy Cricket likes it.

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #4 on:** October 18, 2015, 08:53:45 PM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on October 18, 2015, 08:37:24 PM

Is there any rudder or engine offset in the airplane?

Yes.

Bob Z.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #5 on:** October 18, 2015, 09:17:39 PM »

Quote from: Robert Zambelli on October 18, 2015, 08:53:45 PM

Yes.

Bob Z.

Hmm. I've had three different twins, all with zero engine offset and minimal rudder offset, and haven't really had it be a big problem, certainly not catastrophic. If the inboard quits first, other than maybe being a little lighter than ideal on the lines, they've all still been very controllable. At least yours is an easy repair, looks like you'll have it back in the air soon.

Air Ministry . · « **Reply #6 on:** October 18, 2015, 09:33:46 PM »

BOTHER .
Kinda looks good with the ' short nose ' though , a bit like a Mosquito .

Outboard engine offset seems to be necesary for no inner flight , if theres a bit of wind about .

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #7 on:** October 18, 2015, 10:13:35 PM »

Bob, Haven't had any problems with an engine quitting, either one, and having loose lines as long as it is in level flight or under 40 degrees. Anything after that and your in trouble. Oh, and I haven't had any luck getting back to upright level flight from inverted on one engine either.
The caveat is that most of my twins were not overpowered and they were never over 20 sized.
I'm overdue to build another one, this time it's electric and that engine problem is a thing of the past.

Dennis

Bob Hudak · « **Reply #8 on:** October 19, 2015, 04:46:48 AM »

Bummer Bob,
Must be the season of the witch. But it looks like Jezebel will ride again!
Bob

EddyR · « **Reply #9 on:** October 19, 2015, 06:24:21 AM »

Bad name for a model. It was a good thing there were no dogs around.

Steve Fitton · « **Reply #10 on:** October 19, 2015, 06:28:04 AM »

In defense of Bob, the air can be pretty squirrely at Huntersville given all the tall trees around. It would not take much to send the plane out of control with some of the gusts that would come through the trees from time to time.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #11 on:** October 19, 2015, 11:17:36 AM »

Sad to see Bob, but I see its going to fly again.

Douglas Ames · « **Reply #12 on:** October 19, 2015, 11:49:38 AM »

Was it windy or gusting?
There is a twin Fox .15 Ringmaster in our Club (Glue Dobbers) that flies fine if either engine quits.
It also has twin rudders so that may it?

Air Ministry . · « **Reply #13 on:** October 19, 2015, 10:59:41 PM »

I think youve got the same idea as ME .

You can use it for COBAT and if it goes in on soft ground ,
you dont even need to restart the engines , as the props wont hit ! .

The SIDE AREA definately keeps it tracking . Ive misslayed a 58 in long Gloster Meteor , that s t r e t c h e d .015 stainless as it was like
a 5 ft 6 x 1 plank on edge . The tangental bit was rather noticeable .

The mosquitos most nervous if things are against it , the whirlwind steadier , but itll still weave on entries & exits if your not with it .
Throw OS .35s in the Mosq. now , after someones ' lightest .35 ' post - though its showing its hard life . In a gale & otherwise
its spun out on recovery from inverted , Once it ate the lines pulling the nacelle off . only weighs 76 onces now.

Will drag 70 ft of .018 with the 35s and can get carefull loops etc on the outer , but its a bit like walking on eggshells or suchlike ,
Smooth & steady and no sudden moves , where the 262 cruises nicely on the outer . Apologies if ' we're taking over ' or seems .

Brett Buck · « **Reply #14 on:** October 19, 2015, 11:12:45 PM »

Quote from: Douglas Ames on October 19, 2015, 11:49:38 AM

Was it windy or gusting?
There is a twin Fox .15 Ringmaster in our Club (Glue Dobbers) that flies fine if either engine quits.
It also has twin rudders so that may it?

I flew Paul's B-17 and it ended up with all but the very outboard engine failed, and it flew level just fine - as long as I put enough arm into it! I whipped it for 4-5 laps but that was just about all I had. A single 15FP running at about 4000 rpm was not much assistance on a 104 ounce airplane.

I have seen a bunch of twins of various design fly and they never had much issue with engine-out. Gordon wind-flew the second "Two Much" with one engine, and then *no engines* for about 10 minutes at the second Pasco NATs, but he had the 20 mph wind helping, too.

Brett

Robert Zambelli · « **Reply #15 on:** October 20, 2015, 09:03:33 AM »

Guys, thanks for all the comebacks.
As Steve said, the wind was very unpredictable, gusting from various directions.

Since I was inverted, I thought I might be able to climb enough to tuck it under and resume upright flight.

I WAS WRONG!!!! The wind gods had other plans. The (outboard) 1955 Fox 19 just didn't drive the 41 ounce plane hard enough to beat the wind.

In any case, it's almost ready for fill, cover and paint.

It really is a fine flying plane and should be competitive in OTS.

We'll see.

Bob Z.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #16 on:** October 20, 2015, 06:09:35 PM »

Quote from: Robert Zambelli on October 20, 2015, 09:03:33 AM

Since I was inverted, I thought I might be able to climb enough to tuck it under and resume upright flight.

Bob Z.

Oh, you left that part out, that explains everything.

Clancy Arnold · « **Reply #17 on:** October 20, 2015, 06:42:04 PM »

Bob
I had one flight with my Scale P-38, see MA Mar. 1986, where I lost the inboard engine but continued to fly the required 10 laps to qualify the flight with no problems. It had both engines straight and 1/4 inch offset on both rudders. I figured that Clarence L. "Kelly" Johnson forgot more about aircraft design than I ever knew so I kept it "as designed!"
Clancy

RknRusty · « **Reply #18 on:** October 20, 2015, 08:47:29 PM »

Ouch, Bob sorry to see that. Wayne told me you wrecked it, but he didn't tell me it was there in H'ville. I wondered where you'd disappeared off to, and Holley asked too.

In Profile on Saturday I had to do an hourglass with the wind beating in my face, but my ugly old Ukey with its narrow fuse plowed right through it, lucky for me. I'm not used to flying over pavement either. Lucky again for me I was over grass Sunday when I failed to pull out of a wingover. Also lucky my Oriental wouldn't crank. That's three luckies in one weekend, wish I'd known you needed one of them, I'da given it to you.

I think our field is back open now that the road isn't under water, so maybe we can try the Jezebel out next week.
Rusty

Brett Buck · « **Reply #19 on:** October 21, 2015, 01:35:48 PM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on October 20, 2015, 06:09:35 PM

Oh, you left that part out, that explains everything.

Indeed, that does make a difference. As soon as you maneuver it, the airplane slows down, the thrust from the engine goes WAY up, and then you end up running very fast away from it.

Brett