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Author Topic: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)  (Read 5862 times)

Offline Steve St.Martin

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1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« on: December 23, 2017, 05:59:36 AM »
  Greetings to everyone.  Some folks, over on RCG, told me of this site. So, I had to check it out.  A great site! First off, I have never been a person with the ability to do the stunt pattern(s). Same with RC. Mostly because I do 99% scale in both CL, early years, and RC.  But, I alway's loved the sleek beauty of some of the stunt planes, as a young person.  But, I can do some basic stuff, which is usually better than most I flew around, surprisingly.

  The first time I saw the Ares, I was 10yrs old. It was the most beautiful stunt model I ever saw.  The man who built it, knew what he was doing. It made me feel good, that he used a well run McCoy .35.  These were the only engines I could afford. IIRC, the .19 was 6.95 and the .35 was 8.95. He finished it leaving sections of wing and stab in clear, with several color trim. I think it was kitted by Ambroid, then.  I vowed to build one someday. Well..53yrs later and I'm finally doing it.  Last time I flew CL was 40yrs ago!

  A local friend decided I needed a push, to join some of our RC club members in flying CL, and purchased the Brodak Ares.  One of the first things to catch my eye, was a beautiful glass cowl.  My thoughts were to build this in a visual classic style, allowing some modern practices. So, the glass cowl stayed and the cloth hinges were used.  I never could do a respectable job attaching cloth hinges. Over the years I learned much more than I knew then, so I decided to try something new.

  The wings/stab/elev are covered in Poly-Span and sealed with reg hardware store satin lacquer 50/50. Oh..did I mention that this is electric? I have been 100% electric since 1998. I used Balsa-Rite to attach the PS. I also used it to attach the supplied cloth hinges with an iron.  Few coats of lacquer and the best dang job I ever did on these type of hinges. I had planed on doing three section hinges, but not enough ribbon, settled on two section.

  At present, I still need to hollow out the balsa blocks and set up a few hatch areas for access. Fuselage will be covered in GM silk span.  Even with the blocks not hollowed, it is quite light. The pic of the Brodak model shows an offset rudder. Plans call for no offset. I split the diff and made the vertical as a flat bottom airfoil, ala Nobler and a few others. No wing tip weight either. This is my first "I" beam wing. I'm pleased with the way it came out. Very stout and light.  For the purists, I plan on making a mock McCoy red-head in the cowl.

  The electric system consists of a Extreme Flight Torque 2818/900, ZTW 40 ESC and the timer still to be purchased. Graupner 10-5E 3b and 4s-2200 Zippy.  450W available IIRC. Have patience with my progress, as I build a lot for other people. Thats how I support our hobby.

  Fuzz (Steve St.Martin)

Offline pmackenzie

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2017, 06:20:28 AM »
Nice looking model:)
What do you think the AUW will be?

What timer were you thinking of getting?
Don't know how good the ZTW governor is, so Kieth Renecle's KR timer might be the best option. It performs the governor function.
You can get them direct :
http://www.keithrenecle.co.za/Electric%20CL.htm
And from RSM
https://www.rsmdistribution.com/index-2.htm
MAAC 8177

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2017, 06:41:48 AM »
Nice looking model:)
What do you think the AUW will be?

What timer were you thinking of getting?
Don't know how good the ZTW governor is, so Kieth Renecle's KR timer might be the best option. It performs the governor function.
You can get them direct :
http://www.keithrenecle.co.za/Electric%20CL.htm
And from RSM
https://www.rsmdistribution.com/index-2.htm

  Hi Pat, Do I know you from RCG?   Thanx for the tips.  Not sure of the AUW, but I hope to get it around the upper 30's oz.  The ZTW has a governor program or heli.  I was looking at timers from Brodak that required the ESC to have this function. But, I will consider your good suggestions. Then I can run the ZTW on the regular programing.   I'm really building this to experience the feeling of my youth.  I will most likely just fly it safely and simple. That's if I don't get dizzy and fall down.

Fuzz

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2017, 09:40:03 AM »
The Ares looks great, but in my opiniuon not enough hinges.  My self I hinges the surfaces full span.  Elevator and flaps.   But being electric you shouldn't have the vibration of an IC engine.    Keep us posted on progress. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline pmackenzie

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2017, 10:05:14 AM »
  Hi Pat, Do I know you from RCG?   Thanx for the tips.  Not sure of the AUW, but I hope to get it around the upper 30's oz.  The ZTW has a governor program or heli.  I was looking at timers from Brodak that re

With a combined total of almost 35,000 posts over there , seems likely we bumped into each other at least once. :D
I have certainly "lurked" on some of your build threads  :)

Pat MacKenzie
MAAC 8177

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2017, 11:11:59 AM »
Hi John, I would like to have made a three hinge grouping, But, I flew so many Ringmasters, Flite Streaks and such with just a two hinge group. Never had a failure with the IC pounding engines.  As you say, the lack of vibrations should yield a long life hinging.  And I agree, full length hinges are good for surface efficiency yielding less throw required for the same amount of work.  But, as I said before, I'm not a precision stunt flyer. Never was.  Not looking for perfection in flight, just satisfaction in renewing my youth.

  I knew I recognized your name, Pat. Glad to see you here.  One never knows another's roots in the hobby. 

  I started hollowing out the blocks this morning with a drum sander.  I have a simple process to getting the block walls thin and uniform. I insert a LOT of round tooth picks into the outside of the block. These are marked for 3/32" insertion, then glued with reg Elmers School white glue. When the drum hits the tooth pic, it makes a distinct different sound. Between that and holding up to the light. I can get it pretty uniform.

  So studying things, I have decided that three hatches will be used. One for the batt,motor, ESC, bellcrank area, one for the elevator/stab connector, and a small one for under the rudder for trim ballast.  I remember building a Nobler decades ago, and needing to change the elevator to flap position. Not a nice thing to hack into a nice finished fuselage.  So, making it accessible is a plus, later. All hatches held with magnets.  I sure do have a pile of balsa fodder all over the place.

Fuzz

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2017, 11:13:42 AM »
 ;D

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2017, 02:32:58 PM »
Hi Ty, Your 100% correct! In my young years, I avoided them. Looked like too much work as compared to a standard constructed wing. But hell, once the spar is built, It's very basic and easy.   I almost wanted to do one of Steve Wooley's version of the Ares. Either the Cobra or Argus.  Brodak has the Cobra in short kit.  I may just have to build one.  I just love the nostalgia of the build.

  Merry Xmas everyone!

Fuzz

Offline Mike Griffin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2017, 10:20:52 PM »
Brodak is showing out of stock on the Ares Kit.  I wonder if they quit carrying them?

Mike

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2017, 05:02:07 AM »
Brodak is showing out of stock on the Ares Kit.  I wonder if they quit carrying them?

Mike
 

  Hi Mike, Brodak had a short kit for Steve Wooley's Cobra. They also have the LG wires available. Just a modified Ares. I was thinking of this next.

Fuzz

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2017, 10:18:14 AM »
Hi Steve:

Can't wait to see your finished Ares.  I still remember drooling over the Ambroid advertisements for it when I was a kid.

About the "dizzy" thing: before you fly, pick out a couple of landmarks around the circle (the lawn-mower shed, a tree, a bush, a flag-pole, a building, etc.)  Then, if you feel like you are getting dizzy, fix your eyes on one of these as you go around the circle.  Move your eyes from  landmark to landmark as you turn.  The idea is to stop your eyeballs from continuous motion - or alternately to keep the scenery from continuous moving.  So it's like watching a slide show instead of a movie.  The Ares should be stable enough that an occasional glimpse at it should be enough to keep it under control.

Here's why flying the stunt pattern is a good antidote to getting dizzy: except for the beginning and end you only do 2 laps before stopping in place to do a maneuver (well, except for inverted laps - but that's "unwinding", and then the 3 laps after the hourglass.)

Scott



Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2017, 01:13:40 PM »
 Hi Scott, Merry Xmas!

  The local HS sold Ambroid kits and of course glue.  Which brings a memory: I helped a friend, when I lived in Fla, to convert a Lou Andrews Aeromaster to CL. Kitted by Ambroid. I remember those Ambroid boxes.

  I guess I was being a little sarcastic about falling down. We have 5 guys in our RC club dabbling in CL stunt types. The other 4 are doing profiles. There is only a few builders in the club, anyway. And only one actually built a full fuselage years ago.  They always come to me about building both CL&RC.  They also tease me about falling down.

  One of my fav RC flying, it to take a SP-400 size WW-II fighter and simulate CL flying.  I get it in pretty tight, too! Closer than 1/2A lines.  The only time I feel a little loss of equilibrium is when I break the circle and fly out/stop turning.  You are correct about how to control it. I used your tips on the visual years ago.

  I have been running trim schemes in my mind. But I will keep a lot in clear.  The nice thing about the hardware store lacquer, is it yellows after a few years. Should give it a vintage look in the clear areas.

Fuzz

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2017, 08:46:14 PM »
Take a look at Bruce Jennings Cobra on the inside cover of the latest Stunt News.

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2023, 05:31:58 PM »
Greetings:   It's been a long time since I did anything on the Ares. Decided to finish it. First was to flaps & elevators, and remove that HEAVY commercial "polyspan".  Then replace with the much lighter, authentic, Starline Poly Span. Also up graded the cloth hinges in count.  With the block hollowing complete, it's lost a lot of weight.  The top fuselage it removable as is the rear bottom block aft of the tail wheel. The complete control system is accessible.  Finished shaping the wheel pants.

  As I said earlier, I'm not even a beginner, when it comes to stunt. I dabbled, only because I love the nostalgic look of the stunt designs.

  Fuzz

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2023, 05:33:39 PM »
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Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2023, 05:34:41 PM »
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Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2023, 05:35:29 PM »
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Offline Gerald Arana

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2023, 07:02:53 PM »
  Hi Pat, Do I know you from RCG?   Thanx for the tips.  Not sure of the AUW, but I hope to get it around the upper 30's oz.  The ZTW has a governor program or heli.  I was looking at timers from Brodak that required the ESC to have this function. But, I will consider your good suggestions. Then I can run the ZTW on the regular programing.   I'm really building this to experience the feeling of my youth.  I will most likely just fly it safely and simple. That's if I don't get dizzy and fall down.

Fuzz

Steve; As far as getting dizzy.......start by practicing turning around and counting out a 5.2-3 sec lap in your living room. Of course your wife will think you are crazy but it builds up your resistance to getting dizzy. Next you can do lazy eights when actually flying if you start ot get dizzy. That's what I did and it works great.

Very nice build job! Cheers, Jerry

Offline Steve Berry

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2023, 06:36:16 AM »
Great build!

Just 2 recommendations (if not too late) - adjustable leadout guide and a outboard tip weight box. Such a beautiful model, it'd be a shame for it to roll in on you on the 1st or 2nd flight due to no tip weight.

Other than those 2 things....I'm hoping to up my building game to match yours.

Steve

Offline John Rist

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2023, 08:05:07 AM »
Love the Ares.  The Ares has been my first full fuselage build.  You are right. It is a good looking ship. My build thread is in the  Gettin all AMP'ed up section.  https://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/starting-to-build-a-59-ares-brodak-kit/

I am getting close to a first flight!   #^

John Rist
AMA 56277

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2023, 12:17:27 PM »
Thanx for the reply's, gentlemen! 

  Gerald, My fears were generally instigated by a few in the RC club that were flying CL.  They fell down and crashed.. I since helped a neighbor and his son build a 1/2A Baby Flite Streak original kit. He had no engine, so donated a Black Widow made from odd parts. Also a 45' set of wire 1/2A lines. I had no problem flying it. ( I may have used a TD cyl in the BW, it was fast!)  Just as I remembered it years ago.

 Steve, I thought of both those items, also the offset rudder. But, keeping with 19yr old Bill's original, not adopted. I have strayed enough using the glass cowl and air-foiled rudder(ala Nobler).  I could see where I planned on flying a competition routine(yea..right) then those options would be there to adjust.

  I agree, John. A beautiful ship.  A like all the off shoots of the Ares, too. I almost turned this into Steve Wooly's Cobra.  I was a Jr in HS when he died.  I'll check out your build.

Fuzz

Offline Robert Zambelli

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2023, 03:36:19 PM »
OK, one of my closest friends, Gary Tultz (RIP) spent a lot of time flying with Steve Wooley. He grew up with Steve and they spent a lot of time together both building and flying.
Steve was know best for his Argus and Cobra.
Gary and I talked at length about Steve's two airplanes he assured me of two things:

Contrary to some popular beliefs,
The Argus IS NOT Steve's version of the Ares.
The Cobra IS NOT a modified Ares.
Although there are similarities, the two series have many unique feature.
I have been flying my Argus for close to twenty years and it is to me, the best flying plane I've ever built.

Bob Z.


Offline Ty Marcucci

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2023, 11:51:50 PM »
I agree with Bob Z. having built and flown both Argus and Cobra. Most I beam wings tend to look alike, and share many similarities, but are not the same. D>K
Ty Marcucci

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2023, 12:09:44 PM »
  I have the Cobra plans. Very similar. I see no reason why I could not pass it off as a Cobra or the earlier Argus. I did read where Steve was influenced by the Ares. I tried searching for the info to no luck.  But I did not claim as such.  I realize I am way over my head posting in such a specialized forum. If you read my posts, I am reliving my youth with this build of , to me, the most beautiful model airplane I ever saw.  Most of the posters seem to have a superiority trend.  I supposed to build it or treat it like I'm a competition ship. 

  Good Luck to you all.

Offline Robert Zambelli

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2023, 01:38:47 PM »
Hi, Steve - Mr Wooley may have been influenced by the Ares but I'm not sure.

Regarding the Cobra/Argus issue, I'm pretty sure the Cobra was a bit larger.
When I was judging at VSC, a fellow won with a Cobra powered by a Fox 35!

Bob Z.

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2023, 10:51:54 AM »
Finally ready for the base lacquer silver.

Fuzz

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2023, 10:53:14 AM »
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Offline Will Hinton

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2023, 02:32:22 PM »
A bit of info on the Steve Wooley thing, I knew Steve in high school, though we went to different schools.  He worked at the local HS in Marietta, Ohio, and that's where we met.  As far as the influences for his Argus, etc, Steve and Billy Werwage were nearly inseparable even though they were a whole "Ohio" apart.  Steve went up to Billy's in Cleveland often and would stay quite a while, flying together all the time.
He also got to know the Adimisins' during that period.  The Argus was all Steve's.  I saw him break the tail section off right at the leading edge of the stab at a contest just over the river in W Va.  He pulled out too low in the first turn of the RWO.  Walked by me carrying the thing like it was a hurt puppy and just grinned at me as he went by, drove home to get his Fierce Arrow and flew again.
Steve was a rather eccentric fellow, but good as gold, and it really hurt when he was killed in a race car.  I was in the Navy at the time and my mom called to tell me.  Ruined my day.
John 5:24   www.fcmodelers.com

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2023, 03:11:01 PM »
Finally ready for the base lacquer silver.

Fuzz
Are you planning on some air exits in the bottom?  I love the little top scoops and with the large bottom opening...I don't see where the air is getting out.  Your workmanship is front row.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2023, 08:32:16 PM »
Thank You!  There is an exhaust at the rear of the cowl. The cowl was modified with a 1/64 ply flange.  Exhaust area is 300%, intake area 100%.  I still have to modify the intake area on the chin scoop(reduce).    Base silver is on. Actually has a satin finish after a light coat of clear. Perfect for masking duties.  Need a day of gassing off before the masking.  No need sitting around un-assembled..

Fuzz

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2023, 06:55:12 PM »
  Spent two nites laying out the scheme. Base over all black with light blue/silver trim. Paints are all NAPA/MS acrylic lacquer and the blue will be DM floral lacquer.

Fuzz

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2023, 04:29:00 PM »
Blue is on. DM floral lac is flat. I find flats are much better for opacity. But, requires clear before the blue can be masked for the black. And..12hr cure before the masking is added.

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2023, 11:23:17 AM »
One of the few times I ever did a perfect masking. No bleed(thats a rare one) and no lifts removing the masking.  Letting it gas-off a few days, then it gets rubbed down with scour pad a a little 600 around the paint lines.  Then it's ready for the clear.  Weigh is 34oz at present.

Fuzz

Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2023, 12:24:05 PM »
With craftsmanship like that you should be building...learning...and flying control line aerobatics.  Lovely work and a good eye for perspective, layout etc.  I envy you.

p.s.  I've got a "look alike" dupe of your Ares just above my right shoulder here that I flew in the first ever Vintage Stunt Championships for exactly the same reason your building one...I saw Billy's original win the Walker Cup at the Los Alimitos, California Nats back when I was still a teenager and fell in love with it and with Billy's talent at the handle.FYI I just turned 80 so you can see the plane and the man has hung around me for decades.  The veritable poster plane for stunt history.


Good choice,my friend!

Ted Fancher

Offline Ted Fancher

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2023, 05:41:47 PM »
Oooops...a needed PS to my previous message.

I also have a picture here in my den/office of Bill holding my Ares for a picture that has hung on my wall as well since that long ago "first" Vintage Stunt Championships.  Billy and I had numerous head to heads in the intervening years...only a few of which did I manage to come out on top.

Ted Fancher

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2023, 06:05:15 PM »
I would love to see a pic of you're Ares, Ted.  It is a beautiful design.  I could never do a decent pattern in CL. Came close one time in my early years 50yrs ago.  I'll be 69 next week. I have been the go to test pilot in RC for many years, but I'll be happy to fly this for fun. Some loops, eights and inverted, wing overs will more than satisfy me.  As long as there are no stunt flyers watching, maybe it will impress.

  Ty, I think it may miss the 40oz mark just a hair. For a sub novice, I should be happy.  I really cannot see building the kit any lighter, without replacing almost all the wood. I replaced some.  If I were a competition flyer like you guy's, I would have scratch built it with contest grade.  So please forgive my lower level.

  I was given a Sterling Ruffy in 1966(12 yrs old) and a new in box K&B 45 Greenhead.  Now that was a heavy plane. But flew decently.  I can remember praying for the engine to run out of fuel. Boy..was my arm tired!

Fuzz 

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2023, 05:01:40 PM »
Finally applied the clear auto acrylic lacquer. The humidity was still a little high, so wet coats avoided.  Let it sit for a week then come back and compound and wax it.  Kind of a shiny semi gloss presently.  @ 41.5oz w/batt, what ga lines will I need?

Fuzz

Offline Steve St.Martin

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2023, 05:30:41 PM »
Thank you Ty!  Thats was my thoughts also. .015, thanx.

Fuzz

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: 1959 Bill Werwage Ares Electric(Brodak)
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2023, 06:31:29 PM »
85# Spectra.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC


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