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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: TroyMartin on April 13, 2017, 11:45:49 AM

Title: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: TroyMartin on April 13, 2017, 11:45:49 AM
Just wondered what the pros and cons are comparing 19 strand verses 7 strand flying lines ?????
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Walter Hicks on April 13, 2017, 12:35:15 PM
I use the 19 strand because it is more flexible but it is easier to kink.  :)
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Joe Yau on April 13, 2017, 09:02:22 PM
Last time I used the 19 strand .018, it feels a bit spongy at the handle vs 7 strand ones.  but it's more flexible.
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: RandySmith on April 13, 2017, 09:38:13 PM
The 7 strand is better , tougher, and I have had, and seen, much more  19 strand  start  to break, normally at the termination , on the outside strands

Randy
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Lauri Malila on April 14, 2017, 04:03:50 AM
When measured, the elasticity of 19 strand cable is about same or slightly less than with 7 strand line. The springy feeling comes from increase air drag and in small part, weight. L
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Keith Renecle on April 14, 2017, 10:44:38 PM
When measured, the elasticity of 19 strand cable is about same or slightly less than with 7 strand line. The springy feeling comes from increase air drag and in small part, weight. L

That's interesting Lauri. I had a roll of the 19 strand line from Tom Morris and it really is smooth and I found that on a lightweight .40 size model it was fine. Lightweight being around 1200 grams (42.3 oz.) I tried a heavier model of 1450 grams and it felt springy while on 7 strand MBS line it felt better. I also noticed something strange when I set the speed too fast even on the lighter model, and that was a "sort-of" flutter on the lines as the model went into some wind. I'm curious to know why the smoother line has more drag??

Keith R
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Air Ministry . on April 15, 2017, 02:01:50 AM
Be intresting to evaluate strech on Ea adter say 50 flights , AND
having run a rag down Ea. Line - free to rotate ( The Two Lines held in the ' volonteers two palms by his thumbs ,
repeated untill the rotateings done  . I know this near halves the Sig .015's   s  t  r  e  t  c  h by near half per Wt .
So sharpes up the Avg. 40 profile no end . as I may have said before , once or twice .

Technically youd think thered be more weight of wire in the 19 strand , and less twist . perhaps .
Anyone WEIGHED the same lengths of both ??

Risk of repeating myself , the 70's Kiwi stunt " 14 inch line reel " was regarded as
giving less curl to the wires , and rolled out / reeled in fairly smartly .
Quick walking pace even .

 H^^
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Paul Smith on April 15, 2017, 10:30:10 AM
19-strand consists of three layers:

One core strand - true length.
Six inner wrapping strands - longer.
Twelve outer wrapping strands - longest.

It would take a considerable preload to take up the slack, which is to say, get the wrapping strands tight-wrapped.  Then if the lines are allowed to go slack you would need to take up the slack again.

In a near-death incident, it's possible to break or stretch the center strand and maybe even the six inner wraps, before even giving the outer 12 a hard workout.  That might save a model while buggering-up the lines.
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Dennis Moritz on April 15, 2017, 04:17:20 PM
Howard comparison stretched them at one time. I think he determined no diff. I've had nineteenth strand last for years. Steady flying. Careful cleaning and storing helps. Kinks seem to happen when lines get rolled twisted. Forgetting to unroll the loops. Practicing reverse wing overs one after another, not so good. I did 20 in a row once. Junked the lines. Bad kinks.


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Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: john e. holliday on April 15, 2017, 08:34:40 PM
How can a series of reverse wingovers destroy a set of lines?   I remember at a stunt clinic that during practice do at least two RW's to warm up.  I would think square 8's would be harder on lines.  My opinion. H^^
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Chris McMillin on April 16, 2017, 09:03:28 PM
Probably only did the outside part 20 times which would be 20 outside loops to the lines.
Chris...
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Steve Helmick on April 16, 2017, 11:48:29 PM
I've used 19 strand and liked the squeezable softness and all, but it makes sense that the smaller wire (strand) size would have to be more delicate and more easily damaged. Ever drag your lines across asphalt or concrete, even just a little, by accident? I think most everybody around here has tried them, but changed back to 7 strand. Last I ordered some Tom Morris lines, he seemed shocked that I specifically asked for 7's, but he came through. Then I had to email him and ask for an invoice, because one wasn't included.  LL~ Steve
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Dennis Moritz on April 17, 2017, 04:53:04 PM
The reverse wing over twists the lines like an outside. If you do them one after another.


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Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: john e. holliday on April 18, 2017, 08:55:21 AM
How come insides don't do the same?   My grand daughter kept doing insides once she did her first inside loops to where she could hardly hold level flight.  Took a while to untwist the lines and we are still using them.
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Dennis Moritz on April 18, 2017, 06:36:44 PM
Why? Barometric pressure. Fluxum was high that day. They kinked.


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Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Paul Smith on April 18, 2017, 07:23:05 PM
Why would continuous reverse wingovers be any different from continuous lazy eights? 
Seems like just bigger to me.

Up, down, down, up, up, down, down, up, up,,,,,,
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Dennis Moritz on April 19, 2017, 12:18:32 AM
They make reverse loops. Try it. Do 20 in a row. I'm just reporting what happened. The overlapping twists looked like a spring when unwound. Of course we can continue this discussion.  ::)  ;D
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Brett Buck on April 19, 2017, 12:23:03 AM
Just wondered what the pros and cons are comparing 19 strand verses 7 strand flying lines ?????

   The 19 strand appear to be very fragile, with loops pulling out of the twist after a while. I haven't seen one fail completely, but most people run them for a few flying sessions, find a loop has pulled out, and then go back to 7-strand.

      Brett
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: eric rule on April 21, 2017, 07:16:36 PM
I agree with Randy and Brett and have also observed similar things.

In my opinion 19 strand wire is a bit like solid wire. OK if you really take care of it and constantly check it for deterioration. For the average guy 7 strands seems to be a better fit.

Regards
Eric Rule
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Ken Culbertson on September 10, 2021, 11:15:50 AM
Howard comparison stretched them at one time. I think he determined no diff. I've had nineteenth strand last for years. Steady flying. Careful cleaning and storing helps. Kinks seem to happen when lines get rolled twisted. Forgetting to unroll the loops. Practicing reverse wing overs one after another, not so good. I did 20 in a row once. Junked the lines. Bad kinks.


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Sorry this is an old thread but I had to LOL when I read Dennis's post as I was researching 19 strand lines.  Back in 2019 I was just getting back in form except for the RWO.  It had plagued me since I started back and it may be the most important maneuver in the pattern so one day our little flying group decided to "fix" my RWO.  I had my trusty electric Fancherized Twister that day which was more than capable of a 40 point RWO given a pilot that could do one.  So I took off and listened as the three of them told me what to try and how I was doing.  After about 5 I figured out where my problem was and fixed it,  did a couple of good ones then they started getting worse and worse.  I voiced my frustration and noticed all three of them on the sideline laughing.  Motor quit and it was all I could do to lane the plane the lines were so twisted.

Ken
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: John Lindberg on September 15, 2021, 06:52:19 AM
   The 19 strand appear to be very fragile, with loops pulling out of the twist after a while. I haven't seen one fail completely, but most people run them for a few flying sessions, find a loop has pulled out, and then go back to 7-strand.

      Brett
I have had this happen; it's messy! I bought some .018 cable (line) from MBS, does anyone know if what he sells is 19 strand, or 7 strand? 
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Dan McEntee on September 15, 2021, 07:38:53 AM
I have had this happen; it's messy! I bought some .018 cable (line) from MBS, does anyone know if what he sells is 19 strand, or 7 strand?

   Go to his web site and look at the description for the product. It will say what it is. I don't know for sure if he sells 19 strand or not.
 
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Crist Rigotti on September 15, 2021, 02:57:24 PM
all the stuff I got from MBS was 7 strand.
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Brett Buck on September 15, 2021, 03:20:45 PM
I have used the MBS line for about 20+ years, all I have ever seen is 7-strand.

    Brett
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: John Lindberg on September 16, 2021, 04:49:13 AM
I have had this happen; it's messy! I bought some .018 cable (line) from MBS, does anyone know if what he sells is 19 strand, or 7 strand?
I checked the MBS site; he does not say whether what he sells is 19 or 7 strand cable.
Title: Re: 19 Strand verses 7 strand .015 control line
Post by: Peter in Fairfax, VA on September 16, 2021, 07:55:55 AM
John,

I just bought 1000' of .015 from MBS, so if you'd like to try some, see you at the field.

Peter