How do you rate different control line wire?

[Andrew Tinsley]

  There was a thread on what to use for control line wire, over on the Barton Forum. The query kicked off with how good is Superline? This got the thumbs down because of stretch, rusting and binding up when wet.
  In the old days, I used the  old British Laystrate and found that was fine. These days I have used the PAW Staystrate, SIG and the line from M B Schuete (spelling?). I have had no real problems with any of the above and the MBS line wins out on price. What do you use and any pros and cons?

Regards,

Andrew.

[phil myers]

Andrew, currently I'm using pike trace wire ,7 strand rated at 30 lbs b.s. Looks to be about .15 and so far so good. It doesn't fray at the edges (unlike superline) and it doesn't rust (unlike superline) and its easy to wrap around thimbles (unlike ....!)
Phil

[Andrew Tinsley]

  I am afraid I never did the "fishing" thing, so I am totally ignorant of all the prospective goodies that one can get at fishing tackle shops! I tell a lie. I used fishing swivels for line connectors when I was a kid. That worked fine too, but is frowned upon these days!

Regards,

Andrew.

[Neville Legg]

Andrew, back in September I bought some C/L wire from Paul Winter, he had a stand at the SAM gala at Old Warden.
Its a 7 strand wire, thinner than the old 3 strand Laystrate, with a very silky surface. It came on 500 ft reel for £20. Not bad? Haven't had a chance to use it yet, due to illness.

Cheers    Neville

[Steve Helmick]

Lately, I've mostly bought RTF lines from Jim Snelson at CLC, mostly because my yard is stepped and not a good place to tie lines of the same length. When at the "flying field", I want to fly. Jim uses either 7 strand or 19 strand stainless cable. You might ask which you'll get. The 7 strand is more durable, but the 19 strand is very soft and smooth. The 7 strand also stretches less. Either works for me, tho.

I've bought bulk spools of 7 strand from RSM, which is nice stuff. Most is actually stainless and "Sevenstrand" brand,  which is apparently the best. The only thing is, make sure it's silver and not the bronzed stuff. It's much easier to see on grass, asphalt or concrete, but otherwise, I don't see a difference. I used solids some back in the early '70's, and that doesn't work for our climate, and my tolerance for twiddly chores.    Steve

[john e. holliday]

Andrew,  as Melvin Schuette is my flying partner at times, I buy by the bulk the .012,  .015 and .018 cable.  He sells the solid wire also but not in bulk.  The reason I use bulk is the many events I try to fly.

PS:Brenda Schuette needs to be included in this as she keeps us from killing each other. LL~jeh

[Andrew Tinsley]

Hi Doc,

[Andrew Tinsley]

Hi Doc,
  I must have pressed the wrong button, sorry about the truncated reply above! Please give Melvin my best regards and say how pleased I am with his c/l wire! I must order some more soon as I am running short. My eyesight is awful and I have been asked what the lines are made from? I can't see to count the strands, it seems to soft solder OK so I presume that it isn't stainless?
  Anything you or Melvin can tell me would be great. One fellow on the Barton forum is running short and needs to order something soon! Many thanks for any information.

Regards,

Andrew.

P.S. The fellow who purchased your O&R sparkies is as pleased as punch with them and asks me to give you a big thank you!

[don Burke]

IMO solder on line ends not a good idea.  Use the double wrap method followed by CA or epoxy to prevent unravelling.  Solder makes a stress riser at the end of the wrap right where you don't want one.

Lots of people use crimped and swaged with great success, but it only takes one failure to ruin a good model.  I don't like either method, for the same reason, stress risers if the lines are bent.  IMO crimped or swaged is OK where a pure straight line pull with no possibility of bending is involved as in preloaded full size aircraft control systems.
 
Check out the AMA web site, CL rules, section 5.3, for good explanations and drawings on how to do it.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/events/rulebooks/CLGeneral.pdf

[Andrew Tinsley]

Hello Don,
  I don't solder my lines, but many still do, hence the statement that the line soft soldered. I am sure that there could be great debate as to how you terminate lines. I don't like crimping over much and most other method give rise to stress raisers, even epoxy or Ca give a possible stress raise area where the overwind ends!
  I am more interested in the quality of the lines available to us. I can pay around $30 for a 1000feet of 15 thou wire or I can pay just about the same for a single set of SIG or PAW 60 feet lines (here in the UK). I think my query is how do these two price extremes play out in practice? Is there any wire that we should positively avoid. Let us face it, virtually non of the wire we use is designed for C/L aircraft (with maybe the exception of the PAW line).

Regards,

Andrew.

[Brett Buck]

  I don't solder my lines, but many still do, hence the statement that the line soft soldered.

    Solder lines?  I haven't seen anyone do that in 40 years.

     Brett

[Andrew Tinsley]

Hello Brett,
  Some of the really old timers that I occasionally fly with, still solder their lines. I used to, when I was a lad, but decided it wasn't a good idea, fairly early on! Strangely enough, or maybe luckily enough, there have been no failures that I know of amongst these dinasaurs (their description not mine!). They do have a lot of discipline in inspecting their lines, before, during and after they fly, so maybe this is why they don't get problems? Or maybe they fly so little that they get away with it!

Regards,

Andrew.

[don Burke]

I can pay around $30 for a 1000feet of 15 thou wire or I can pay just about the same for a single set of SIG or PAW 60 feet lines (here in the UK). I think my query is how do these two price extremes play out in practice? Is there any wire that we should positively avoid. Let us face it, virtually non of the wire we use is designed for C/L aircraft (with maybe the exception of the PAW line).

Regards,

Andrew.

I don't think you can go wrong with the bulk line from Melvin Schuette.

[Andrew Tinsley]

Thanks Don,
   I am more than pleased with Melvin's wire and in fact I recommended it on the Barton Forum. Nice to know that I got things right for once!

Regards,

Andrew.

[john e. holliday]

Andrew, I knew there couldn't be two of you.  If you go to MBS Model Supply,  Melvin has a contact number there.  I am glad the gentleman is happy with the engines.  I probably would not got them in the air.  In fact, while organizing the shop finally, I have found a couple of engines were in bad shape from not being used.  Just ask garf about a couple I sent him.  Have decided that some engines will not go on the bay.  Anyway hope to see pictures of the planes the engines are going in.

[phil c]

.......
  I am more interested in the quality of the lines available to us. I can pay around $30 for a 1000feet of 15 thou wire or I can pay just about the same for a single set of SIG or PAW 60 feet lines (here in the UK). I think my query is how do these two price extremes play out in practice? Is there any wire that we should positively avoid. Let us face it, virtually non of the wire we use is designed for C/L aircraft (with maybe the exception of the PAW line).

Regards,

Andrew.

My understanding is that the Laystrate type lines were originally designed for fishing nets.  Same for the 7 strand stainless steel wire everybody uses, although a fair amount is used for mechanical mechanisms.  Now most fishermen have gone to Spectra because it is lighter and more user friendly.  The only place steel is used is as a leader when going for sharp-toothed fish(which often cut steel leaders anyway).

Otherwise, all the stainless steel cable is pretty much the same.  Depending on which company made it you may have more or less problems with getting twists in the lines.  The wires have to be twisted to while spinning the cable so that the cable doesn't come unravelled.  Too much twist and the wire is forever developing curlicues when it is put under load.  When the various twists put in during manufacture are just right the cable won't develop curlies when it is used.  Hence the supplier, and the actual machine operator play a big factor.  I've had different batches of wire from the same supplier behave very differently with some wanting to develop twists and other batches very easy to handle.  But it is all stainless steel.

Avoid multi-strand music wire lines.  Music wire is very prone to rusting, even when brass plated.  Brand new sets of lines can rust through in a day or two if they get wet, especially inside the terminations.  Laystrate is built from plain steel wire.  Despite the tin plating I've had sets fail in the terminations after sitting over the winter.

[NED-088]

Laystrate is built from plain steel wire.  Despite the tin plating I've had sets fail in the terminations after sitting over the winter.

I had 2 sets of lines fail, one in a pull test and one during flight. Both were stainless.
My Laystrates however, never let me down in 41 years.
They were always soldered, but NEVER on the cable, always just on the braided eyelet.
The eyelet has the cable 5 times around, I like that a lot better than those brass thingies one sees at some ready made lines.

I like the more 'solid' feel of the Laystrates vs. the stainless steel cables better.

[Neville Legg]

I've never had a problem with laystrate, in about 45 years of flying, I assume that the strands are soldered together? when you run a rag up them to clean them its always black! I have found them to stick together sometimes, if you don't constantly wipe them down. I too solder the ends and have never had one break.

Cheers