"Strongest" braded lines abailable?

[Avaiojet]

What are the "heaviest" or "strongest" braded lines abailable?

I see some guys are flying heavy and large scale models.

I have a large scale R/C model I built years and would like to convert it to CL.

Charles

[john e. holliday]

I think MBS Model Supply has .027 cable that is generally used for leadouts.    The heaviest lines I have ever used was for a Class II Carrier at .021 cable.

[FLOYD CARTER]

How big?  How heavy?  I routinely fly stunt models with 0.018" braided lines.  Some as heavy as 72 oz. and 62" wingspan.

Floyd

[Avaiojet]

How big?  How heavy?  I routinely fly stunt models with 0.018" braided lines.  Some as heavy as 72 oz. and 62" wingspan.

Floyd

Floyd,

It's old and heavy, been repaired a bit, center wing section. I think it's 72" in span, not sure, it's in a storage space, I'll see it later today.

Could be five pounds? OS. 90 4S

Charles

PS. Floyd, PM me.

[Tim Wescott]

Download the current rulebook for scale and take a look.  The 2012 book lists recommended cable sizes for various plane weights.  Even if you're just sport flying, going by the rule book should make things safe.

It's amazing what you'll find in the AMA rule books.  It's almost like a lot of really smart, practically-minded people have been working for decades to make them complete, succinct, accurate and useful.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2011-2012RC-CLScale2.pdf

[Brett Buck]

Download the current rulebook for scale and take a look.  The 2012 book lists recommended cable sizes for various plane weights.  Even if you're just sport flying, going by the rule book should make things safe.

It's amazing what you'll find in the AMA rule books.  It's almost like a lot of really smart, practically-minded people have been working for decades to make them complete, succinct, accurate and useful.

  Odd how that is. The AMA rulebook is about the best document of its type, particular in the consideration of *reasonable* balance between safety and practicality, in the modeling/hobby world. Not perfect, and in the world of rule-book lawyers there is always someone willing to make a frivolous or twisted interpretation (see also: Rules Forum), but awfully darn good.

   I would also note that for sport flying, there is actually a link back to the rule book, in that the AMA Safety Code sends you to the rule book for pull test requirements. Unless it's in some other obvious category the model falls into, it says to use the Stunt pull-test rules. That was the result of a, uh, discussion between George Aldrich and me on the old RCO forum, and Carl Maroney from the AMA.

    Brett

p.s. here's a quote that I think applies, should be a stickie in the Rules Forum:

There are no "hidden meanings" or mysterious runes in the rule book, waiting for some elaborate interpretation only to be discovered by decades of study. The most obvious interpretation is the correct one in any case I can think of.

It's the rule book, not the d*mn DaVinci Code.

[phil c]

If you can find some, a number of samples of F2D 4 strand brass-plated music wire have shown up at combat contests.  Some were as big as .017 in. and could take 65lb to break.  In comparison, standar .018 stainless breaks at 50-55 lb.  The F2D rules now call for a 20Kg(44lb) pull test with very few problems.  Any kind of stranded high tensile steel(not stainless steel) wire will be substantially stronger than common flying lines.  They do have to be treated with care and kept dry, or coated with some oil to prevent rust.

[Douglas Ames]

 


<snip>
p.s. here's a quote that I think applies, should be a stickie in the Rules Forum:

There are no "hidden meanings" or mysterious runes in the rule book, waiting for some elaborate interpretation only to be discovered by decades of study. The most obvious interpretation is the correct one in any case I can think of.

It's the rule book, not the d*mn DaVinci Code. (Brett)

Where's the guidelines/ specifications for Lead-out wires? Now that's mysterious.

It is assumed that they must be equal or greater than the line set specs., but where is it hidden?
(I believe everyone uses this interpretation)

AMA CL General 2.:
Note that the line connectors, airplane lead-out wires, handle, and handle extension cables, if any, are not part of the lines, and are subject to separate material and strength requirements.

[Brett Buck]

Where's the guidelines/ specifications for Lead-out wires? Now that's mysterious.

It is assumed that they must be equal or greater than the line set specs., but where is it hidden?
(I believe everyone uses this interpretation)

AMA CL General 2.:
Note that the line connectors, airplane lead-out wires, handle, and handle extension cables, if any, are not part of the lines, and are subject to separate material and strength requirements.

   Leadouts are not specified anywhere. A practical solution (or non-solution).

    Brett

[john e. holliday]

Now anybody in their right mind, would they put lead outs in a plane that are smaller than what flying lines are?  Come on folks lets use some common sense.   

[Fred Cronenwett]

I have an 80" sport model that I fly that weighs 12 lbs, it is flown with .021 wire without any problems.

If I remember correctly the 8-12 lb range would require  .021 wire and the 12-16 lbs range would require .024 (CL scale rules)

MBS has all of these sizes, if you need .027 he has that identified as "Leadout wire". We fly the models in the 16-20 lb range with the .027 wire

Converting that to CL scale would not be a problem, a OS four strok 90 would pull that easily. Install a bellcrank, leadout guide (adjustable) and 2.4 Ghz radio and you are good to go. The adjustable leadout guide is great to change the line rake. I start off with 2-3 degrees of line rake and then move it forward as it's trimmed out.

Fred Cronenwett

[Avaiojet]

I have an 80" sport model that I fly that weighs 12 lbs, it is flown with .021 wire without any problems.

If I remember correctly the 8-12 lb range would require  .021 wire and the 12-16 lbs range would require .024 (CL scale rules)

MBS has all of these sizes, if you need .027 he has that identified as "Leadout wire". We fly the models in the 16-20 lb range with the .027 wire

Converting that to CL scale would not be a problem, a OS four strok 90 would pull that easily. Install a bellcrank, leadout guide (adjustable) and 2.4 Ghz radio and you are good to go. The adjustable leadout guide is great to change the line rake. I start off with 2-3 degrees of line rake and then move it forward as it's trimmed out.

Fred Cronenwett

Fred,

Thanks for the reply and info.

How can I not ask, got photos of those 12 lb models?

I'm going to weigh this GBE this weekend. I have an OS 90 NIB from eons ago. I also have an Enya 120.

What's the 2.4 radio for? Throttle?

I was thinking using a third line. I sold all my 2.4 stuff.

Charles

[Brett Buck]

Now anybody in their right mind, would they put lead outs in a plane that are smaller than what flying lines are?  Come on folks lets use some common sense.   

  Precisely, a practical solution for something that generally takes care of itself. If it passes the pull test its OK, if it later wears out and crashes the airplane, Darwin is again proven correct, even in terms of engineering.

    Brett

[Douglas Ames]

Now anybody in their right mind, would they put lead outs in a plane that are smaller than what flying lines are?  Come on folks lets use some common sense.  

This why the rule book exists in the first place, because there are people that would do that.
"Fishin' swivels" for line connectors were banned for a reason.
Soldering your line terminations and the use of LUXON clips are now frowned upon.  

In Charle's quest for the correct line size, he also must size the lead-out wires accordingly.
Yes, common sense rules (and I know Charles can build a safe model), but you have to think beyond this forum and write the rulebook for someone that has never built a CL model before.
There should be no assumptions (for legal reasons).

The rulebook clearly states there are separate strength reqs. for the listed items in rule 2, but the chart for lead-outs does not exist.

The verbage needs changed at the next rules cycle or the AMA needs to publish a supplement.

    

[Fred Cronenwett]

Yes the 2.4 Ghz is for the throttle control, install the receiver, on/off switch, battery and a servo and you ready to go. You can customize a 2.4 Ghz car radio into a handle or hang the transmitter on your hip. Either way works. The servo controlled throttle is more precise and also allows for end point adjustment, and use the trim to set the idle speed.

I stopped flying 3-line almost 22 years ago. 3-line will work also if you like that better. At the nats this year we had almost every type of throttle control system possible, 2.4 Ghz, down the wire JR DSC controls, Clancy Arnold's down the wire, single channel and 3-line.

The model I fly is on the left (80" span), the model on the right is a Byron Original Ryan STA. I have since re-painted the camera plane and put on an E-Flite E60 electric motor with a 6S battery. I use the Tactic 650 2.4 Ghz radio for this model with BEC. The only thing the model carries is a receiver, speed control, 6S battery and the motor.

Fred

[Steve Helmick]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#corrosion-resistant-cable/=or6xcy