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Author Topic: NOSTALGIA 30  (Read 48578 times)

Offline RandySmith

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NOSTALGIA 30
« on: July 11, 2009, 08:12:12 AM »
 

Nostalgia 30

 

  Nostalgia 30 is in the same spirit as Old Time and Classic, which both, are events that were conceived to provide venues that promote the construction and flying of Historic designs from by gone eras.

Both have been extremely successful as evidenced by continued growth since their inception, Further, they both have benefitted from continued adjustments to the rules that proved to stimulate participation in both events by encouraging more modelers to build,show,and fly these historic planes.

  This proposal provides for the addition of a new series of designs by establishing a new event that has a 30 year rolling cutoff, That is, any plane that is 30 or more years old from the current year will be eligible for competition.

Discussion

 1. This event is about recreating the past, as Old time and Classic have been the focal point of stimulating construction of the older designs, This event will do much the same for this class of older designs. Without this format, in all likelihood, many of these designs will slowly disappear and be lost forever as the data, or designers pass from the scene.

 
2. For the past few years, many contests have been hosting unofficial events they are similar to this proposal, i.e.: " Nostalgia 79", "Classic 84",etc. This demonstrates there is both the enthusiasm for the inclusion of a new set of designs, but also the necessity for  a standard set of supplementary rules.

 
3. Nostalgia 30 will utilize the same rules as the current Classic Event with the exception of the eligibility of newer designs that meet the 30 year or more criteria. Due to lack of time, circles, and manpower at weekend contest, this event is designed to be run in conjunction with Classic, and administratively separated with a separate set of awards.

It can also be flown as a separate event, whichever is the most convenient for the contest management. If ran with Classic which has designs over 30 years old, Contestants would be required to declare for either Nostalgia 30 or Classic, but not both.

 
4. These events should always be inclusive, not exclusive, and should always,within the rules, strive to include new flyers and new planes, remember what is a Nostalgic period to one person, can be a  different era for another.

 

Regards

Randy Smith

The above proposal has passed the PAMPA EC and is now an official PAMPA event as of July 2009. I hope this encourages the building and flying of more of these historic design stuntships

 

« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 11:38:31 AM by RandySmith »

Offline RandySmith

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2009, 08:12:08 AM »
Randy, at a contest, from how I read it, it is either classic OR Nostalgia 30 that is flown at a meet, right?



Hi Matt

NO it is setup to run both Classic and Nostalgia 30 on 1 circle with 1 set of judges and another set of awards. Or they can run just either one. This help contest management with NOT having to get extra manpower or extra judges.
If the contest runs Classic and Nostalgia 30 together then the pilot must declare which one he is entering, but cannot enter both.

Regards
Randy

Offline RandySmith

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2009, 10:11:16 AM »
I'm soo happy that this has been done, and in the way it is implemented. Running the two events at the same time, and seperating them out at the tabulating table, will allow this event to be included in virtually any contest venue that includes Classic.

It'll probably take 6 months to a year before enough of us get new ships built, and we start seeing these newer ships showing up, but, after that, many N-30 planes may indeed show up.




Hi John

Thanks for your post, Maybe it will be much sooner than you think, many contest already have these airplanes flying, I have seen many Contest that allow planes from 1979 and up to 1984. One of the nice things about this class is it is inclusive of any design 30 years old or older

Regards
Randy

Offline RandySmith

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2009, 02:23:54 PM »
It's easy to identify "OTS" and "modern", but we need a comprehensive list of designs separating classic and nostalgia, since they typically look the same (to the average flyer)

Floyd

Hi Floyd

You do not need to separate Classic from Nostalgia as  any Classic plane qualifies as a N.30 plane, matter of fact so does all Old Time ships.

Nostalgia 30 events are  any plane  30 years or older period.

Randy

Offline RandySmith

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2009, 10:46:22 PM »
Not to throw any knid of monkey wrench I'm just wondering If a person could then enter 2 aircraft 1 for classic and 1 for nostalgia 30   if they wished ?

If they run the contest as two separate events ,Yes.  If they are ran together I would suspect NO

The reason I set it up so they can be ran together on the same circle, is the problem local contest management has with lack of extra circles and manpower to run more events.

Regards
Randy

Offline RandySmith

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2009, 01:05:42 PM »
You present a good argument for not joining PAMPA.  Event proliferation could destroy stunt as it has speed, combat, and racing.


Hi Howard,  Nostalgia 30 will not destroy or hurt Stunt,  I can not fathom why Nostalgia 30 is a good argument for NOT joining PAMPA either???

Randy
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 03:47:29 PM by RandySmith »

Offline RandySmith

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2009, 08:43:57 PM »
Splitting an event into more and more splinters does cause problems with entries, rules, and more stuff to argue about.  Most stunt contests I've attended would have been better served by having all the events on just two circles and using 4 judges and running all the PAMPA classes intermixed.

Phil

Nostalgia 30 does not splinter the event, N-30 does not add a bunch of new rules, and I see no reason why N-30 would add to people arguing about N-30, there is no good reason for that. It is not at all like what happened to Combat and speed. N-30 is a complete apples and oranges and does in NO way reflect the combat and speed event problem, Proliferation is not what hurt combat and speed anyway, the rules being changed all the time and the enormous infighting going on, plus going to FAI with most planes coming from E Europe along with motors and the fact that a lot of the flyers got older and quit.
VSC would NOT benefit from going to 2 circles and 4 judges for nothing but PAMPA classes, Brodaks  would not  benefit from that either, N-30 is setup to be very flexible so contest management can run it or not anyway they want to.
I have had many calls emails and letter from people and they are about 99.9% positive encouraging people to build NEW planes to fly, NOT taking anyone away from the existing events
N-30 will only add planes and more people flying, not less people

Regards
Randy

Offline RandySmith

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2009, 11:05:21 PM »
Randy, and all...

At the Karl Marschinke Memorial Meet in Tucson, late this September, we're going to try a slightly different idea. Super 70s.

It is essentially similar to the proposed Nostalgia 30 rules you posted above, EXCEPT for this concept:

Super 70s eligible models are those which first appeared in the decade from January 1, 1970, but not after December 31, 1979. Classic and Old Time models are not eligible for the Super 70s event.

The reasoning is simply to protect existing, popular events - specifically Classic - which would quite likely dwindle away if models from a later era were to compete in the same event. Also, separating Super 70s and Classic models this way should make a good test of interest in the 'next decade's' designs.

Hi Lou

Thanks for you post.
N-30 planes DO NOT compete against Classic planes. They are in an entirely differant group, please read the PAMPA E.C. passed proposal again.
It is your contest so you can run whatever you like...However Nostalgia 30 is now ..NOT.. a proposed event, it IS an official PAMPA event,
It was adopted unanimously by the PAMPA EC members, and it was carefully thought out to attempt to fix such problems as the many differant types of 70s events,
You can go around here for several years and see Classic 1979, Nostalgia 1984, Classic 1982 etc...and other events being ran on the east coast.
 We needed ONE Nationwide set of rules so that people will not have to deal with the many differant rules for all the differant contest, N-30 does just that, It makes it much easier to build a plane for this event.
You may consider running N-30 since only 1970s and before designs, are legal to fly now, and it is a recognized event just as Classic is,
We have an official NEW N-30 event..why not support it??
 I don;t see any real difference in the event your proposing except for It has the name N-30, and has a rolling 30 year cutoff, a feature that was very much liked by many people in the original Classic event.

I don't see trying to "protect Classic from N-30, as N-30 is no threat to Classic. People do now ,and will build whatever they personally want to build and fly. N-30 is about getting these historic planes in the public eye before they are lost forever, and there are some in danger of just that.
It would seem to me to be counterproductive to not support the N-30 event in favor of another very similar type of trial event.

N-30 will NOT hurt Classic, and it was never designed to, I have heard some talk about doom and gloom, from a small amount of people but I am very sure this will only help with more people and more planes flying CL stunt events
Regards
Randy
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 02:02:05 PM by RandySmith »

Offline RandySmith

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2009, 03:02:25 PM »
""The Post-Classic-cutoff models are great, but not quite designed around the developments we've gained from in the past 5 years of so.""

Hmmm Lou
If your only talking about N-30 models...they are ALL  30 year old designs, if it is the technology,That is an entirely differant discussion there, one I am not going to worry about, one that will turn into a big deal. If you start to take away or worry about the recent developments a lot of people with modern stuff in Old Time  and  Classic ships, not even to mention N-30 planes you will open a bucket or worms. I have seen at VSC and many other places, Hi tech computer boards, EL motors, programmed flight boxes, AAC, ABC, ABN, Plasma engine parts etc in pre 1952 planes. Forget about the tons of other stuff like super light wheels  cnc  mufflers spinner and the like, handmade CF props, computer designed props, CF control system, the list goes forever.

Many people are concerned about this, but I think it is here to stay.

Regards
Randy

Eric Viglione

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2009, 09:57:25 AM »
As someone who grew up a little later that those can appreciate the current "classic", I really am excited about N30! Dove's, Patternmaters, Stiletto's, THOSE are MY generations classics. It would seem crazy to say that those planes are never to be regarded as a classic, ever... The time is now! A lot of the flyers my age I hang out with are still kinda obsessed with the gold ring in PA, and had no real vested interest in Classic as it sat before, but are actually excited about building something for N30.

And the 30year rolling cut off is key, this will continue to bring in more of "our" designs. When Classic was first instituted, you could build a double threat ship, but PA planes have progressed a bit since then and all the better preforming classic ships have been cherry picked and built many times over. I could see some of the N30 designs becoming a double threat.  The N30 designs in the hands of up-and-coming flyers also flying them in Intermediate, Advanced  will get more stick time at contests, and no reason they couldn't be used in Expert as we have seen some do with the better flying Classic ships.

This is a great idea! Thanks to all involved!
EricV

Offline RandySmith

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2009, 08:13:07 PM »
Randy --

N-30 has not been posted on the PAMPA web site. Have there been any wording changes, or is there some other hold up?

I was looking for the exact wording. Is what you have in your original post above the way it was passed?

Larry Fulwider

Hi Larry

Yes that is the exact proposal that was passed by the EC

Randy

Online Matt Colan

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2009, 01:53:54 PM »
I am at a loss as to any down side of Nostalgia 30 as a new event.  It is not replacing any event or adding to the local contest's problems of adding another event.  Even I could separate the contestants at the Tabulator's table.

In the past (I am not an Expert pilot, just a mediocre Advanced) I have used a USA-1 to fly Classic and PAMPA Adv. for local stuff.  So, I *could* have built a Genesis, Stiletto, Stunt Machine, Macaluso Crusader, etc., etc., to fly in Adv., but it would have been a one event only plane, I could not have used it for *Double Duty*.  it is important for me to have that choice.  Now I can enter two events with any of the above mentioned planes, and be fine in doing so as long as Nostalgia 30 is offered.

I love my Ares, Vulcan, USA-1, Argus, etc., but now I can build a new *generation* plane if I so desire and have more options than before.  Plus, guys who are younger than I am can fly planes that they saw in*their* youth in magazines or in person.  BTW: a lot of present Stunt pilots can now fly their OWN designs in an an extra event, which they may not have been able to do with the 1969 cut off! ;D

Just my opinion. ;D

Mongo

And I agree with your opinon Bill.  My Ares flies double duty, and my Smoothie flew triple duty last year (OTS, classic, and PA).  I'd love to build one of those magnificent planes from the 70s, but they will have to wait since I have 3 planes to build now.

Matt Colan

Offline RandySmith

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2009, 12:38:33 PM »
Horrace

The PAMPA rules are the exact same as Classic except the cut=off date is anything over 30 years old

Regards
Randy

Online Matt Colan

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2009, 07:37:15 PM »
Hi Roger,

Not Randy but I think I can answer your question.  You designed your plane in 1964 so that would make it classic legal.  Nostalgia 30 runs through 1979 and at the turn of the year 1980.  You can build it for classic or Nostalgia 30, it would be your choice...
Matt Colan

Offline RandySmith

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2009, 09:55:40 PM »
Hi Roger

Matt is correct, it is  legal for either  Nostalgia  or Classic, yo can fly it in either  event

Have fun with it

Randy

Offline Stan Powell

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2011, 04:49:24 PM »
Randy,  Does the airplane have to have been published to be eligible?

Thanks,

Stan Powell

Offline RandySmith

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2011, 07:28:48 PM »
Randy,  Does the airplane have to have been published to be eligible?

Thanks,

Stan Powell

Hi Stan

No the planes do not have to have been published, If you designed and flew a plane 30 years ago that  is  OK  and is good to fly

Randy

Offline Joseph Patterson

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2013, 07:14:39 AM »
          I see here it was previously stated that when flying Classic and N-30 concurrently with separated awards at a contest that a flier had to declare which event to be scored  which makes sense, but what if he has (2) different models he wants to compete with in the concurrent running events- would most CD'S allow him to compete this way? I see no reason not to, but what do some of yawl more experienced CD'S think?
         Doug 

Offline RandySmith

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2013, 06:55:43 PM »
          I see here it was previously stated that when flying Classic and N-30 concurrently with separated awards at a contest that a flier had to declare which event to be scored  which makes sense, but what if he has (2) different models he wants to compete with in the concurrent running events- would most CD'S allow him to compete this way? I see no reason not to, but what do some of yawl more experienced CD'S think?
         Doug 

Hi Doug

Same as flying Classic and Old Time in the same contest, It is all up to the CD if the events of Classic and N-30 are combined.  I have been at contest that were ran either way, both works well and as stated, it is just in what the management of the contest wants to do

Randy

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2024, 07:22:39 PM »
If Classis and N-30 are combined, the event is simply just N-30.
Paul Smith

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: NOSTALGIA 30
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2024, 07:52:41 PM »
If Classis and N-30 are combined, the event is simply just N-30.

  EXACTLY!!!! I have been saying that N-30 is just a redundant PAMPA class for years now!! There have been way too many threads where the question is "What is the latest, legal N-30 designs,  of when was this modern airplane designed and is it N-30 legal. Some guys just want to use a single airplane for both N-30 and their PAMPA skill class, and while I understand that, but if you are an intermediate class flier a Shark .45 will fill the bill there, as I did that for years. I am seeing SV-11 ARFs in N-30 now and that is just not in the spirit of flying vintage. That is just trophy hunting. I think it should be eliminated and if you need a third vintage class, make it the Super 70's class with a cutoff date of December31, 1979. If there isn't an airplane in that ten years after Classic that can make you happy, it can't be done!!
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee


  PS to Add;
        If you think about it, when was the last new stunt design or new stunt kit you saw released?? Other than rehashes of older designs?  It maybe almost 30 years ago for anything significant.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2024, 01:10:09 PM by Dan McEntee »
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