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Author Topic: Fly by wireless  (Read 36473 times)

Offline Gustavo Urtubey

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Fly by wireless
« on: August 12, 2015, 01:58:31 AM »
It is not new and it is coming to the aviation industry very soon.
The objective is to save weight and downtime due to faliures in connectors, wires and sensors.

New technology options using sensors potentially for data connectivity and micro/nano technologies are making it possible to retrofit existing vehicles, such as large commercial fleets and already designed models.
An A 380 contains 530 km. of wire and 40.000 connectors.

May be  in the future it would be easy to have this technology for model planes.
I imagine a stunter with no pushrods, wires or connectors, just an electronic module that could be located anywhere, even as a tip weight and send signals to flaps, elevators, motor rpm's and that it could be set up from the Iphone.


Offline RknRusty

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Re: Fly by wireless
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2015, 05:09:11 AM »
That sounds really cool for sport flying and building. It sure would make for some hair-pulling rules discussions in Stunt, Carrier and all the other CL disciplines.
Rusty
DON'T PANIC!
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while you're doing it!

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Offline Dennis Toth

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Re: Fly by wireless
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2015, 07:59:01 AM »
I think the rules already address how control surfaces can be moved. It requires that the control input is through the control lines. The surfaces can be moved by either hard linkage or servo's as long as the control signal/command comes from movement of the control lines. It doesn't matter if that signal goes through pushrods, wires, radio signal or fiber optic as long as the input come from movement of the control lines.

The use of servos for control surface movement actually is interesting in that it could allow some new and interesting designs where you don't have to have straight line hookup of the surfaces to the bellcrank. Drawback is the added weight of servo and battery, but still could be fun for some.

Best,     DennisT

Offline phil c

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Re: Fly by wireless
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2015, 08:46:24 AM »
One of the big reasons some people like C/L  is that you can feel what the airplane is doing.  Without force feedback, or a lot on internal sensing in the electronics, the pilot won't be able to respond to what the plane is doing. 
phil Cartier

Offline Sean McEntee

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Re: Fly by wireless
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2016, 10:38:21 PM »
One of the big reasons some people like C/L  is that you can feel what the airplane is doing.  Without force feedback, or a lot on internal sensing in the electronics, the pilot won't be able to respond to what the plane is doing. 

I agree.  Besides the romantic part that Phil mentioned, I think it would be very difficult to relearn how to fly precise maneuvers with out the aerodynamic resistance on the controls.

Offline TigreST

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Re: Fly by wireless
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2017, 10:04:45 AM »
.......... I think it would be very difficult to relearn how to fly precise maneuvers with out the aerodynamic resistance on the controls.

 :!You would not have to worry about "relearning" anything...there will be a "ap for that".   Stand in the middle of the circle hold onto to a single line attached to the middle of your handle. Open the ap on your cell phone.  Push the go button,...then just move about to allow the application to fly your pre-programmed pattern for you. 

 


Tony Bagley
Sarnia, Ontario, Canada

Offline John Rist

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Re: Fly by wireless
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2017, 09:39:38 AM »
I have flown scale ships that that have the elevator controlled by a servo.  The feel at the handle is not a lot different.  The reason for the set up was that it was a large scale model built from a converted RC kit.  It flew great but it was lead sled. This is OK for scale but not so good for stunt.  On top of all that as I read it scale rules no longer allow elevator control by a servo.  All other functions are ok.  I don't see any future for servo controlled flight surfaces in stunt.  Sport flying is another thing.  I have wanted to build a RC controlled model that is tethered by a mono line attached to a chest harness.  It would have active ailerons and rudder.  could make for some interesting maneuvers. 
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Offline phil c

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Re: Fly by wireless
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2017, 05:39:47 PM »
One area where this could be really helpful is in trimming.  Got a bit of a roll, trim it out.  A bit twitchy, slow the elevator response and/or travel a little.  Rabe rudder causing trouble, reduce movement and/or travel.  You could trim almost anything related to the controls in one or two flights.  Add a moveable trim weight and you could even trim the CG.

As Brett has pointed out many times though, once the system is built there is no practical way to prove that it isn't acting as an autopilot of sorts to smooth out maneuvers, minimize over control, control the engine run which is already allowed in electric(very bad decision that ).
phil Cartier

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Fly by wireless
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2017, 12:13:34 AM »
As Brett has pointed out many times though, once the system is built there is no practical way to prove that it isn't acting as an autopilot of sorts to smooth out maneuvers, minimize over control, control the engine run which is already allowed in electric(very bad decision that ).

    I agree on the autopilot, but not the engine/motor. I see nothing being done in electric that couldn't have been and has been done on engines, and the reliability is (somewhat to my surprise) similar.  Igor's feedback system effectively accomplishes the same thing, more-or-less, that Aldrich was trying to do with a Fox 35, Big Jim was trying to do with the ST60, and Hunt/Pappas did with the tuned pipe.  In fact, even after thinking about how to improve on it on IC engines using electronic feedback control for something like 45 years, I still can't see a way to do better than I am doing with a pipe and an Eather prop.

     I still routinely see the same sorts of problems with electric setup that I see all the time with IC setup, for many of the same reasons. Many people set their controller up with FAR more response that they should, because it makes the feel like heroes when it pulls their arms off in the corners. Unfortunately, it also makes the airplane much harder to fly than it would be otherwise.

    Every successful stunt power system since about 1950 has had very similar characteristics, I am not at all hung up on finding another way to do the same thing.

      Brett

Offline Jim Carter

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Re: Fly by wireless
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2017, 07:56:07 AM »
:!You would not have to worry about "relearning" anything...there will be a "ap for that".   Stand in the middle of the circle hold onto to a single line attached to the middle of your handle. Open the ap on your cell phone.  Push the go button,...then just move about to allow the application to fly your pre-programmed pattern for you.
:) I have to agree with you .... considering I was born in the era of party lines and hand cranked wall mounted telephones, the design, production and addition of a whole set of as yet undesigned sensors opens the imagination to another realm of possibilities and yet stay within the "ol' skool" but still current rule requiring the elevator to be directly controlled by the lines.  For example, the USMC CV-22 Osprey .... imagine direct elevator control as per the rules but sensors on the elevator trim, movable ailerons and rudder to compensate for slack lines or to ease the tension for certain conditions, sensors to detect and compensate for any mismatch in throttle rpm, sensors to ensure rotor rpm for transition from hover to forward flight and back to hover, weight-on-wheel sensors to allow low and hi-speed taxi, and best of all pre-programmed sensors to detect a specific point during the performance where it taxies to full stop, engine to idle, brakes applied for full stop, cargo doors open, a pallet gets shoved out, door closes, then the engines spin up for taxi to takeoff.

Silly??  Maybe .... but in the words of Napoleon Hill “Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve.”


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