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Author Topic: Zigras n CC ESC  (Read 1570 times)

Offline Vincent Corwell

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Zigras n CC ESC
« on: November 16, 2007, 09:39:06 AM »
I finally got to run the motor in my new Cardinal profile based plane
Axi 2826/10, 4 cell 14.8v TT battery, CC Phoenix 45, ESC, Zigras timer

I set the ESC for :

Cell count             Auto Lip
Brake                   Hard cutoff
Throttle mode       Heli Governor High
Brake                  50% disabled
Brake ramp           immediate
Motor start           39%
Throttle response   Medium #5
Timing                  Standard
PWM frequency      13 Khz
Current limit           Normal
Governor gain         High 80%
Spool up speed       80%

Zigras timer settings:

Startup speed          35 = 70%
Ending speed           40 = 80%
3 Blips                    on
Motor start time       2   = 20seconds
Flight duration          5 1/2 minutes

battery fully charged , 11 x 5 Zinger wood prop

starts up OK, turns circa 9 K, for about 4 mins , drops gradually to 8 ish by 5 mins
NOW,........at 5 1/2 minutes blips non-stop until I switch off power, approx further 1 minute

Intend to try turning off the 3 blips at end next, but very puzzled, on re-charging the battery
all else seems normal,

could the ESC or the timer be doing this ?

Any suggestions please ?

Vincent

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2007, 12:04:37 PM »
Vincent,
Your starting and ending speeds on the timer have to be more like 27 to 30%.
30% will correspond to about 9500 RPM on the governor.
Throttle response can be higher too.

Here is where a borrowed radio and a pulse width meter could tell you tons of good information.
You didn't say which prop either.

Dean
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Offline Vincent Corwell

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2007, 12:28:15 PM »
Many thanks for the reply Dean

I tried 12 x 6 APC  E prop
and 11 X 6 wood Zinger
rougly same rpms

Felt like the battery was not up to it
I will try your suggestions soon and report back

again a big thank you

Vincent

Alan Hahn

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2007, 02:25:57 PM »
Vincent,
Put a small prop on the system. By small I mean something like a 9-4 or so, just so you can get something to measure rpm, but not so large it bogs down the battery.
Now run your timer setup with the plane tied down on the ground. Get a stopwatch and tach to see if the setup follows what you think you setup. I am surprised you are running a different power setting at the end of the run while in governor mode. Normally (IMHO) you don't need to do that in governor mode---as long as your battery has the moxie to keep the prop spinning.

Assuming the prop is small enough, you should see where the governor is trying to put the rpm, if it had the volts and amps to achieve it with the larger prop.

You didn't mention the capacity of the battery (is it 3000mAhr or bigger or smaller?). That matters.

Alan Hahn

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2007, 02:31:06 PM »
Also if you can, see if you can get the APC 11-5.5 Thin Electric propeller, I think it is more efficient than the thicker Zinger wood prop. Also you can look at what I use for my Electric Nobler (see thread), but I think your Cardinal profile is a larger plane,so it might need more power. I am using a 4 cell 2100 mAhr FMA battery (4s1p in Lipo terminology).

Offline Vincent Corwell

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2007, 01:28:26 AM »
Thanks Alan

The battery is Thunder 3800mah 14.8V
I have changed the settings as Dean suggested but have not
yet tried another run
Does the smaller prop give false rpm reading ( higher than is possible with the flight prop)
(sprained my wrist and cant fly for a few days , so ground running with stopwatch & tacho )

Proud member of Stunthanger forum, thanks Bob Storick and all our friends out there

Vincent

Offline Vincent Corwell

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2007, 02:02:36 AM »
Some pix of the plane in question

Vincent

Offline Vincent Corwell

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2007, 03:58:39 AM »
Now friends,

I have run the motor one more time , with the new settings:

start delay 20 seconds      perfect
startup and runs 5 mins     perfect
turns the wood prop 9800  perfect
stops at circa 5mins 20secs perfect
blips about 10 times when stopping, even though the
3 blip function is turned off         acceptable
need to fly the pattern asap


Thanks again for all the help

Vincen t

Alan Hahn

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2007, 12:19:48 PM »
Vincent,
In governor mode, you are setting the rpm, so the motor will run that rpm even without a prop, but if you have a standard optical tach, a prop makes a convenient thing to put it on. The small prop that I suggested was just to allow you to run a complete cycle on the ground and see if the programming of the timer and ESC was what you expected--all without drawing too much current from the battery. You shouldn't ever run the full size prop for a full 6 minutes on the ground, it could damage the battery and overheat it, the ESC, and the motor---unless your power system is seriously oversized (=probably too heavy).

Offline Vincent Corwell

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2007, 08:05:18 AM »
Managed to fly the plane this morning

I used 60 ' lines for maiden flight

It is terrific !!, does what it was programmed to do

with a clean 5 min cutoff, motor stops no blips

power was more than reqd, next time will fly on

65 foot lines and try full schedule, going to buy some

more batteries n stuff next

Again thanks for the help and advise that made this possible

Vincent

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2007, 11:58:49 AM »
Great Vincent,
For closure ...
What is your battery capacity used per flight?
What's the lap time on 65 feet?
What is your % "throttle" on the Z-tron.
Please confirm which prop you are using: the 12-6E APC?

happy happy,
       Dean
Dean Pappas

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2007, 12:01:23 PM »
By the way, when I ran a similar combo on the ground, I used a 7-4 prop! All you need for ground tests is a little bit of flywheel and something for the tach to work with.

Dean
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Offline Vincent Corwell

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2007, 12:37:50 PM »

Great Vincent,
For closure ...
What is your battery capacity used per flight?
Dont know Dean ! perhaps the charger tells me ?
What's the lap time on 65 feet?
Sorry , I have only one flight on 60'
What is your % "throttle" on the Z-tron.
27%
Please confirm which prop you are using: the 12-6E APC?
11x6 wood Zinger
happy happy,
       Dean
[/quote]

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2007, 09:12:11 PM »
Which charger?
Yes, try the 12-6 E APC. Hunt uses about 2600 to 2700 mAH with the 12-6 on a 53 ouncer.
It flies 5.2 S/lap on just over 65 feet.

Dean
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Offline Vincent Corwell

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2007, 12:00:42 PM »
Which charger?   Xpeak 220 AC/DC, Charger/Discharger/Cycler
Yes, try the 12-6 E APC.   Have to wait until Sunday, if weather is dry to fly again
Hunt uses about 2600 to 2700 mAH with the 12-6 on a 53 ouncer.
It flies 5.2 S/lap on just over 65 feet.

Dean

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2007, 11:41:17 AM »
Hi Vincent,
I looked up the Jamara X-Peak 220. It's a full featured charger with a display that can show you the capacity that was put back into the battery.
Ideally, you should consume less than 3/4 of the battery capacity, and never more than 80% for best service life from your batteries.
Dean
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Offline Vincent Corwell

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Re: Zigras n CC ESC
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2007, 01:43:16 PM »
Hi Vincent,
I looked up the Jamara X-Peak 220. It's a full featured charger with a display that can show you the capacity that was put back into the battery.
Ideally, you should consume less than 3/4 of the battery capacity, and never more than 80% for best service life from your batteries.
Thanks Dean
Uh I cant see how to read that on the display, Volts, amps, time, plus top RHS another rising number, dont know
what it represents, but if this flies the pattern , I am really happy !!
Vincent


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