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Author Topic: ET-2 (Brutus)  (Read 5149 times)

Offline Larry Renger

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ET-2 (Brutus)
« on: March 22, 2014, 07:05:30 PM »
Well, it is coming along, Tim Wescott sent me his timer, which works great.  I have the foam parts cut out and they weigh .72 ounces.  I think the whole plane will come in under 4.5 ounces!  I am waiting for Eric Rule to cut the ply parts for me, and it is a short bit of work to final assembly.

I'll post the plans as a .PDF ASAP, though they are preliminary until I get the first prototype flying.  The ET-1 took a couple of revisions until it was right.  TLAR will only go just so far with a totally new design.  n~
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2014, 08:08:27 AM »
I'm waiting.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2014, 10:39:06 AM »
Here is the initial concept.  Fuselage is 3/8" foam, wings and tail 3mm Depron.  H^^
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline MarcusCordeiro

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2014, 11:14:27 AM »
Coolllllll!!!!!

Marcus
Live to fly, fly to live
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Action is his reward, look out
Here comes Marcus, man..."

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2014, 12:15:39 AM »
I just got the ply parts today. I hope to build the model tomorrow and then see what modifications are needed. It would be great to have one to sell at the Fullerton Airport Day on the 10th, and another one or two at RCX the following weekend.

Real, cheap entry level CL trainers just don't exist at present. The ET-1 kit and power system is OK for a club at nearly $200 with battery and charger, but insane for a single flyer to learn on, then discard.

The goal with the ET-2 is to have a total system at around $50. Plane, power system, charger, lines and handle. Probably will be more than that, but certainly under $100. The plan is to have the plane, not only built, but test flown when sold.

The good news is that I have 7 more power systems. The bad news is, that was all they had, and I haven't found another source. We can only hope that GWS isn't discontinuing this unit as it seems perfect for the project.

The CL community REALLY needs this! Kids bashing a PT-19 to death in a cul-de-sac just isn't a happening thing anymore. We need badly to fix that. Unlike FF and RC our planes can be flown in very limited spaces. Add to that cheap, safe electric power and there is some hope for the future.

In today's puffball attitude environment, avoiding flammable fuel, fingers in the prop, engine starting problems, fire, burns from hot engine parts et. al. is the only game in town. Back in the day, that all was a challenge to overcome.  Today it is a budding lawsuit.

But don't get me started (or you guys either, this thread isn't the place for that discussion).
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Duke.Johnson

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2014, 08:47:49 AM »
Larry-This is great! I hope to see pictures and maybe a video of the flight.  I built an ET-1 last year for our Air Fairk, it was a HIT.  I would build a couple ET-2's or a couple versions and take them to the Air Fair this year with your permission.  I would like to know more about the power system and the charger you are using.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2014, 08:20:51 PM »
I hope to fly it before the end of this weekend.  Here are photos of the initial prototype. Changes are likely to be necessary.  Certainly the wheels won't be commercial ones! We will come up with laser cut ones.

The weight came out at my target 4.5 ounces!!!  ;D #^ ~> y1 <=

I need to work out the handle design to guarantee smooth flight for the beginner. The bellcrank to elevator ratio is about .5, and I want no more than 1 handle to bellcrank, and probably less.  The goal is to just be able to handle the wind, and fly level.  This puppy is FRAGILE. But repairable with epoxy or foam safe CA.  Perhaps the fuselage should be coroplast, not foam.  This is a project in development, and there are a lot of things to be learned.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2014, 12:25:46 AM »
Larry, look around and see if you can find a source for EPP foam.  The plane will bounce on impact, instead of breaking.

It'll also tend toward more expense and weight, so you'll want to use your judgment about whether it's right for the design.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online Paul Taylor

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2014, 11:42:00 AM »
Larry
That is way cool.  What a great idea. 

Can you tell us a little more about the timmer and power package?
Paul
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As my coach and mentor Jim Lynch use to say every time we flew together - “We are making memories

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2014, 12:57:22 PM »
The power package is a GWS motor prop combo with a custom timer that Tim Wescott designed. Power is a NiMh 9 volt battery from Harbor Freight and a charger from the same source.

The motor/prop como is part of the GWS EDP 100/300 series, specifically the 280C withEP5030 prop. The thrust I measured with this system was 3 ounces, so the plane should fly nicely at 4.5 ounces.

The possible glitches I forsee is getting the motors and timers whenever we want them.  Eric Rule would be happy to market the system through RSM Distribution.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 06:17:11 PM by Larry Renger »
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline John Cralley

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2014, 01:06:18 PM »
John Cralley
Scratch Built - Often Re-kitted!!!
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Central Illinois

Online Paul Taylor

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2014, 06:07:14 PM »
The power package is a GWS motor prop combo with a custom timer that Tim Wescott designed. Power is a NiMh 9 volt battery from Harbor Freight and a charger from the same source.

The motor/prop como is {art of the GWS EDP 100/300 series, specifically the 280C withEP5030 prop. The thrust I measured with this system was 3 ounces, so the plane should fly nicely at 4.5 ounces.

The possible glitches I forsee is getting the motors and timers whenever we want them.  Eric Rule would be happy to market the system through RSM Distribution.

Wow - our Tim Wescott? Way to go Tim- what a neat talent / skill to have.

I always wanted to go to a radio shack and buy a bunch of components and make something cool like that.
All they have in there now is RC cars and cell phones.
Paul
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As my coach and mentor Jim Lynch use to say every time we flew together - “We are making memories

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2014, 06:12:06 PM »
Got my a** in gear and shot some photos for youse guys! (Well, I lived in Patterson, NJ for about 6 months). VD~

Here are the power pack and charge/battery systems.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2014, 06:15:35 PM »
How about this one Larry? Would it do the job (maybe too expensive)

http://www.rcplanet.com/Great_Planes_ElectriFly_T_280_7_2_9_6V_Ferrite_Mot_p/GPMG0300.htm?gclid=CMO8hZG1i74CFYtDMgodo1QAbQ

That looks like it would do the job, but the pack I have is about a buck cheaper and includes two props and a bunch of spinners (why 6?)
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2014, 09:38:19 PM »
The spinners have all different sizes of hole.  The spinner presses into the prop, then onto the motor, and a different spinner will put the prop onto a different-sized motor.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2014, 08:36:52 AM »
First flights yesterday! I flew it at an indoor r/c flying session. Three of us flew it, woking on cg and control settings. The basic design seems right on the money. Smooth and stable, no excitement there.  ;D

The bad news is that the material I used for the fuselage is totally unacceptable. There are several alternatives to try.  mw~

More news as it happens.  D>K

Oh, the motor/prop combos are back in stock at Tower Hobbies. Get 'em while they're hot!  y1
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2014, 06:01:47 PM »
I ran a check today to see how many flights I could get on one battery charge. The timer is set for 45 second flights. It ran 8 times, and ran down on #9. No problem with NiMh batteries, in fact fully cycling them is a good thing as long as you then unplug the battery and let it recover.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2014, 08:32:37 AM »
Eric Rule just sent me the parts for the next version.  Changed trim settings and a Coroplast  fuselage should be a good step towards a final configuration. 

I am looking at a possible mechanical switch system, though presently, it doesn't look any cheaper than the electronic one Tim Wescott designed and built for this project.  Thanks again, Tim! H^^
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2014, 10:11:05 AM »
Eric Rule just sent me the parts for the next version.  Changed trim settings and a Coroplast  fuselage should be a good step towards a final configuration. 

What about a balsa fuselage?  Just too expensive, or you don't like the non-waterproof part, or what?

I am looking at a possible mechanical switch system, though presently, it doesn't look any cheaper than the electronic one Tim Wescott designed and built for this project.  Thanks again, Tim! H^^

Often when a customer comes to me for some super-zoot electronic solution, I start by seeing if I can solve their problem with some dead-simple mechanical or electro-mechanical one.  More often than not, and to my continual astonishment, I fail.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2014, 09:51:33 AM »
Eric rule cut me a Cooroplast fuselage, and it looks very promising. The Et-1 has shown the material to be bulletproof, and we have a lifetime supply for free from old political signs. Why look elsewhere?
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2015, 06:37:43 PM »
I am just building the Mk 3 version with trim changes to allow for controlled landings. Mind you none of the previous versions were damaged on landings, but glide is good. Downthrust, wing incidence and decalage have all been adjusted. Planned first flights Monday. ;D
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2015, 02:50:54 PM »
It works! The new version works great! 😃

It now has an actual controllable glide. The addition of downthrust and decalage makes it trim out rather than dropping out. It pays to have flown a lot of free flight! Gosh, I actually had to learn how model trim works.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: ET-2 (Brutus)
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2015, 03:25:27 PM »
Here is the Mk III version. It is ready for production!  Eric Rule can cut you the Coroplast and Ply parts, I can provide drawings for the flying surfaces and specs on the motor, prop and battery.

Tim Wescott is upgrading the timer.

Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!


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