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Author Topic: Another mAh question  (Read 1783 times)

Offline Larry Wong

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Another mAh question
« on: October 06, 2013, 05:35:18 PM »
Today I was flying and was using 3000mAh battery's for lap time of 5.3  then I went to my other battery that is 3300mAh and the flights were 5.0 lap times is 300 mAh that a big change? ???
Larry

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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Another mAh question
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2013, 05:53:01 PM »
Are you not using a governor?
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Larry Wong

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Re: Another mAh question
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2013, 06:10:56 PM »
Yes Castle control line mode on Pheonix 45 esc and hubin timer on Pheonix high RPM setting.
Larry

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Offline John Cralley

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Re: Another mAh question
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2013, 09:51:02 PM »
Yes Castle control line mode on Pheonix 45 esc and hubin timer on Pheonix high RPM setting.

I am not clear as to your ESC setting. Are you using Governor high or Set RPM mode?? Also hubin has a bunch of timers. Which one are you using?? Are yo sure that both of your batteries were charged up to 4.19 -4.20 volts? If your timer is the FM-9 and you are using Governor high mode in the ESC, you should be using Phoenix new high RPM mode in the timer.
John Cralley
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Offline Larry Wong

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Re: Another mAh question
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2013, 06:25:00 AM »
Yep gov. High. Hub in fm 9 on hi RPM batt. Were charged to 100% with Cell-pro 10 flights only diffrence was Rpm. Not that bad 5.3.  And 5.0. No changes made except batt.  3000aMh to.  3300 aMh
Larry

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Offline John Cralley

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Re: Another mAh question
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2013, 09:06:56 AM »
Humm Larry,  I am at a lose here. I take it the 5.0 laps were when using the larger capacity battery. There would be a slightly different discharge curve for the two batteries but I would think that in governor mode that would not matter. I assume you have plenty of headspace for proper governing. If your RPM is too close to the KV max the ESC will not govern properly. Usually you want 20% or so headspace. If you enter your RPM in the blanks on the Castle ESC Software for Set RPM it will alert you if you are not going to get proper governing. It will do this even though you are not using the set RPM mode (in your case Governor high mode).

Did you tach the actual RPM with the two different batteries??

Wiser heads than I may have an explanation for this. 
John Cralley
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Offline Larry Wong

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Re: Another mAh question
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2013, 09:18:55 AM »
John   I did not tac. the RPM's as it was not a big thing in flying, I was surprise that infact there was a change , just because of diffrent battery
Larry

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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Another mAh question
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2013, 09:54:46 AM »
By definition, if the governor is governing then the RPM should be the same.  So the governor was falling out of regulation, or never had a chance to get in.

If the motor is going slower than the governor's set speed and the throttle is at 100%, then there ain't no more governing that can be done.

How many cells, and what's the motor Kv?  Knowing the RPM is very important here, because keeping the thing in regulation is a function of the battery start voltage, motor Kv and set RPM -- just having two of those is like having a two-legged stool.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Another mAh question
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2013, 10:17:22 AM »
If you can't get an RPM easily, letting us know line length, airplane used (or weight and span), and prop used (diameter, pitch and brand) will kinda sorta not-very-reliably let us know if your RPM was in the ballpark of being able to be regulated.  Stepping out into the driveway and getting a quick RPM reading would be much, much better.

Basically, your regulated RPM needs to be no more than 75% to 80% of your calculated RPM, where your calculated RPM is Kv times the nominal pack voltage (and nominal pack voltage is 3.7V per cell).

I suspect that what's happening is that the smaller battery also has a higher internal resistance; this higher internal resistance means less voltage available to the ESC, which means less voltage to the motor, which means a lower speed.  What's the "C" rating on the packs, and are they the same brand?  "C" ratings are pretty loosey-goosey, but given two packs from a reputable manufacturer with differenc "C" ratings, you could reasonably expect that the one with the higher "C" rating will have a lower internal resistance.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Larry Wong

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Re: Another mAh question
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2013, 10:50:44 AM »
Quick glance is Motor is E-Flght 25  870 kv ,  the battery is Sky Lipo 3300mAh 4cell 20c    Zippy 3000mAh 4cell 20c
Larry

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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Another mAh question
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2013, 11:18:23 AM »
Quick glance is Motor is E-Flght 25  870 kv ,  the battery is Sky Lipo 3300mAh 4cell 20c    Zippy 3000mAh 4cell 20c

I dunno about Sky, but AFAIK Zippy is a pretty cheapo brand -- so you can expect that their "20C" number is toward the "won't burst into flame if used this way" category, rather than "won't significantly shorten the life of the battery" or "will work solidly".

(870 RPM/volt) * (4 cells) * (3.7 V/cell) = 12,900 RPM.  That's the RPM you could expect if you take off the prop and run the thing when the cells are at 3.7V.  Put a prop on and the current draw will reduce that.  Get to the end of a flight and it'll be lower yet.  You need to have your governor speed set above that "high current, end-of-flight" condition.

Using the 75% rule of thumb (I think that's from Dean) you'd need to set it for no more than 9650 RPM at launch.  This is puzzling, because that's a reasonable launch RPM for a 'normal' sized stunter, unless you're using a really flat prop or a really small-diameter steeply pitched prop.

Somehow I suspect that you're just setting your RPM too high, and that you need to reduce the RPM to match your motor and cell count, then juggle prop pitch and reduced RPM to get the lap times right.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: Another mAh question
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2013, 11:19:22 AM »
John   I did not tac. the RPM's as it was not a big thing in flying, I was surprise that infact there was a change , just because of diffrent battery

You have to define the RPM in the ESC setup - after you choose the governor Mode. It doesn't sound as if the ESC is trying to Govern at all, so perhaps it hasn't been set up correctly.  If it were governing, the slight difference in voltage would not be an issue and the RPM would be the same regardless the physical size of the battery.
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Another mAh question
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2013, 12:10:47 PM »
Hi Larry,
It's like Tim said, in order for the governor to do its thing, you have to be within range.
For one thing, what RPM did you set in the Hubin timer?
Next, did you pick the right pole-count into the timer and ESC?
lastly, you should be able to run brief ground checks with ... the normal flying prop, a s;lightly smaller one, and a much much smallewr one and prove to yourself, with a tachometer, that the RPM is the same.
It sounds to me like your governor was pinned at 100% throttle/voltage and then different batteries will fly differently. Also, the lap times will change throughout the flight. That shouldn't happen.

take care,
  Dean P.
Dean Pappas

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Another mAh question
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2013, 12:15:10 PM »
It sounds to me like your governor was pinned at 100% throttle/voltage and then different batteries will fly differently. Also, the lap times will change throughout the flight. That shouldn't happen.

With all this prognostication of what may be wrong with governing -- it's a good idea to double check that it's turned on :).

Dean's suggested ground-check for governing is spot-on.  If the plane passes that check and you're observing the 75% RPM derating, then there's a very good chance that it'll do just fine in the air.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.


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