News:


  • April 19, 2024, 02:54:36 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric  (Read 1707 times)

Offline Matt Curtis

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« on: October 26, 2022, 12:55:25 PM »
I would like to build a ringmaster for electric to fly ots. My power system with prop and esc and timer and battery weighs 16ozs that is with a 3300 mah 3 cell battery. A good weight for a ringmaster with a glow engine is about 26 ozs. I don't think I can build a ringmaster with a weight of 10 ozs which would be the weight of the plane with landing gear and wheels. Then when you install the electric system it would weigh 26 ozs. I will be covering the wing with plastic film maybe I would monokote the whole plane? I am concerned that it will not fly well if it is 30 ozs or more? The battery weighs 9.2 ozs. I assume you need to have about the same weight to get good performance regardless of the type of system whether glow or electric?

Offline John Rist

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2946
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2022, 02:35:46 PM »
I have a ringmaster built by Tom Morris.  It is as follows:
Motor,   Cobra 2221/10 KV 1500
Battery,  Hyperion 3S 1600 70C
ESC<  Trunigy Plush 30 amp
Timer, KR.  Initial RPMs set to 9500
Weight ready to launch is 27.5 oz.
My thread about this airplane is at:
https://stunthanger.com/smf/gettin-all-amp'ed-up!/e-ringmaster-as-built-by-tom's-building-service/msg563769/#msg563769
It has the battery buried in the wing.  If you move the battery forward you could save the weight I had to add to the noise.
John Rist
AMA 56277

Offline Shorts,David

  • 21 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 622
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2022, 04:56:10 PM »
My glow ringmaster was 28oz. It flew great at that weight.

Offline CircuitFlyer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
    • www.circuitflyer.com
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2022, 09:12:13 PM »
My electric Ringmaster ended up closer to 29 oz and flies OK. 3300 mAh would likely give you about 6 minutes flight time. The OTS pattern only takes about 4 minutes or so. You could save some weight with a smaller battery.

PS - For a more accurate comparison, you still have to add the weight of some fuel to that 26oz glow powered Ringmaster.
Paul Emmerson
Spinning electrons in circles in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada DIY Control Line Timers - www.circuitflyer.com

Offline Matt Curtis

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2022, 10:18:40 PM »
Thank you for the info. I wonder if a 3 cell 2800 pack would work as it is a lot lighter than a 3300 3 cell. Would the 4 minutes include the time to walk out to the handle to launch which is about 30 seconds as part of the timer setting.

Offline Brent Williams

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1265
    • Fancher Handles - Presented by Brent Williams
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2022, 09:23:49 AM »
What motor and prop are you planning on using?

Delay time from the moment when you hit the button until the motor starts is not included in total flight time.

A 3s/3300mah is way oversized for a Ringmaster.
You could probably safely use a 3s/2200mah and save 3.5oz.
Using Dean Pappas' formula, factored for 11.1v, 30oz and 60ft lines you probably would only consume around 1600mah for a full pattern, even less for the old time pattern.  At 1600mah of consumption, a 2200/3s would give you enough leftover to keep the battery healthy.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2022, 02:41:48 PM by Brent Williams »
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline Matt Curtis

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2022, 03:01:54 PM »
I am planning on using an e flite 10 motor and a 9x6 prop. I do have the 2200 3 cell batteries and am using them on a flying fool. I also have a fancy pants that I would like to convert. Rsm sells a ready to go system that comes with the 3300 3s battery if I could get enough run time with the 2200 that could work. What rpm should I be getting with the 9x6 to get enough run time?

Offline Brent Williams

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1265
    • Fancher Handles - Presented by Brent Williams
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2022, 03:37:53 PM »
With a 9x6e, I would start around 9500 and see what that feels like.  10x6e also works very well.  Start with your existing 3s2200 pack and see what is left in the tank after a 5min pattern flight. 
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline John Hammonds

  • 23 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 567
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2022, 05:55:53 PM »
Probably flying in the face of every other advice you will hear...

My S1 is 10 years old, started out at 29oz, after countless rebuilds now weighs a portly 32oz. Does the OTS Schedule with a Scorpion 3014-16, 3S 2350mah, APC pusher 11*5.5 in 4:30 with about 19%-21% left at the end. Actual flight time is 5:00 but the excess allows me to fly extra level laps between maneuvers if required due to wind gusts etc. Lap times are ~4.6s and it really is a delight to fly.

TTFN
John.
I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.....
Fast, Cheap, Reliable - Choose any 2!
BMFA 165249

Offline Matt Curtis

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2022, 10:19:46 AM »
So i tested the system i have on a mackey profile with the 2200 3s battery and 9/6 prop.  9700 rpm.  Not enough power with that prop.  Will try 10 inch prop next.  Ruined the battery because it ran down to 10% with a 5  minute flightime will try a 3000mah pack next.  2200 would probably be long enough for ots pattern. Flying at  5700 feet so need bigger prop.  Plane tested might be too heavy with bigger battery?  32 0zs with 2200. Did not have enough power to do vertical eights or reverse wing over. Trying to convert this plane and a fancy pant to fly regular pattern as well..   Bought a rock crawler pack 3000mah 3s 45c same length a little bit thicker and   1.9 ozs heavier. Will test soon. I am going to test it using a r/ c transmitter instead of a timer so I can set the rpm with the transmitter and can land the airplane when I want to check the battery to see how fast the battery is running down. Also can change rpm if needed eaiser. Will see how this works? The plane may be too heavy even with the bigger prop and higher c rating. Being able to land will allow me to check to see if the battery or motor is getting too hot? I don't think it will be a problem. The Mackey profile has a little more wing area than a ringmaster. It flew well with a glow engine if you could keep it running.  It was underpowered with a fp ..25 with 9/4 prop. Flew better with k&b .28 and 10/4 prop but not reliable.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2022, 03:36:33 PM by Matt Curtis »

Offline Dennis Toth

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4224
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2022, 10:21:34 AM »
Matt,
The normal S1 Ringmaster setup is something like a BadAss 2320  860Kv motor, 4S  2200 Thunder Power pack, 10x5.5 APCE prop (I use the pusher on mine) set at 9850 - 9950 rpm, on 60' center to center lines, lap time around 4.65 sec. For the OTS pattern a weight of 34 oz ish will work, for the PA pattern you need to be below 30oz.

I have used the BadAss 2320  860Kv with a 5S 1600 mah Hobby on a 9 1/2" x 7 APCE-P (cut down from 10" and heat pitched up to 7 at 70% station) set at 9650 rpm, this give 4.6 sec lap time on 60' C to C lines for the OTS pattern run time is 4min 40sec has 15 -19% left in pack. This pack fits in the nose in the Ringmaster where the IC tank would go as it is only 70 ish mm (2 3/4") long.

Best,     DennisT

Offline Matt Curtis

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2022, 04:28:07 PM »
So I test flew the mackey profile today with the 10x6 prop and the rock crawler battery.  Lap time was 4.7  seconds after about a minute of flying i landed and checked the battery and it was down to 65%.  Flew again for a short bit and lap time went up to 5•1 seconds which is too slow. Plane weighs 37 0zs which is way way too heavy.  Did not try to do any manuevers as it felt underpowerered.  This airplane has a little bit more wing area than a ringmaster so i thought it would  a good test bed.  It wiil fly the regular stunt pattern as i did it with a glow engine but it felt underpowered.  I cant go back to glow with it after modifying it for electric.  I dont think i can build a ringmaster light enough to fly well with electric at the altitude i have to fly at. •25 sized planes have to be very light to fly well at 5700` feet of altitude. I flew about 2 minutes and thelap time slowed down to 5.1 

Offline Dennis Toth

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4224
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2022, 05:56:18 PM »
Matt,
What ESC, timer and battery pack are you using? If it was at 4.7 and is up to 5.1 somethings not right. Also, what mode are you running in the ESC? I am lazy and use control line governing mode, fixed rpm with all three rpm sections set for the same flight rpm I want (for my Ringmaster on the 5S   1600mah pack it is 9650) in my Castle Talon ESC. I use the timer only to set the motor start delay (I use 20 sec) and to time the flight, no rpm inputs from the time it is set for 100% throttle so only the ESC controls the rpm at the fixed set point.

Once you have the ESC/Timer set up I think you should also consider cutting diameter a bit (to 9 1/2") and pitching up to 7". If you don't have a pitch gauge a stock APCE 9x7 would also work.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Matt Curtis

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2022, 07:25:45 PM »
I did not use a timer this time.  I used  a receiver and transmitter so that i could fly the plane and land it to check the battery as i used a timer and ran the battery down too far.  When the plane was flying at 4•7 seconds per lap it felt underpowered for doing manuvers with the throttle set at 9700 rpm. This was with a 10x6 prop. I used a 9x6 prop when i flew with the timer with same rpm.   I used a 3s 2200 30c battery with the timer setup and today i used a 3s 3300 45c battery with a 10x6 prop.  Battery ran down to 59% flying about 2 minutes.  I did not fly more as it felt underpowered and went slower so  no point in flying more. With the timer set up i could do inside and outside loopps but it felt too weak to try other manuevers such as vertical eight and reverse wingover. I wonder if the 45c battery runs down a lot faster due to the higher c rating? 

Offline Brent Williams

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1265
    • Fancher Handles - Presented by Brent Williams
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2022, 09:29:08 PM »
Keith Renecle flies at very high elevation (around 6000ft or so) down in South Africa.  You might inquire with him about successful motor/prop/battery combinations for his .25 sized airplanes.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Offline John Rist

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2946
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2022, 09:54:56 PM »
Keith Renecle flies at very high elevation (around 6000ft or so) down in South Africa.  You might inquire with him about successful motor/prop/battery combinations for his .25 sized airplanes.
Does high elevation effect electric the same as glow?????
John Rist
AMA 56277

Offline Matt Curtis

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2022, 09:17:32 AM »
How could I contact keith renecle?

Offline Brent Williams

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1265
    • Fancher Handles - Presented by Brent Williams
Re: Weight of s1 ringmaster for electric
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2022, 10:58:17 AM »
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here