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Author Topic: Users guides for my timers  (Read 12490 times)

Offline Igor Burger

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Users guides for my timers
« on: July 25, 2012, 09:57:58 AM »
I often get requests for guides for my timers, so I decided to collect them one place and I am posting links to them. I hope I am not braking some rules.

Simple c/l timer with delay, flight time and throttle:
http://www.netax.sk/hexoft/docu/CLtimer_en.pdf


programmable timer/sequencer with jumps, loops, input, output, interupts etc:
http://www.netax.sk/hexoft/docu/itimer_en.pdf


active timer with accelerometer and power controll:
http://www.netax.sk/hexoft/docu/iAccTimer_en.pdf

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2012, 12:46:29 PM »
Are you sure those things are big enough?

Can I use the Jeti-box protocol, too?
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2012, 01:03:57 PM »
What means "big enough"? what is or not big? ... and big for what? :- ))))

Jetibox is nothing else only simple terminal with 2 lines and 4 buttons ... so yes it is easy to use  8)

Offline BrianW517

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2012, 06:48:26 PM »
  H^^   D>K Thanks  #^  H^^

Offline Fred Pach

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2013, 05:16:27 AM »
I often get requests for guides for my timers, so I decided to collect them one place and I am posting links to them. I hope I am not braking some rules.

Simple c/l timer with delay, flight time and throttle:
http://www.netax.sk/hexoft/docu/CLtimer_en.pdf


programmable timer/sequencer with jumps, loops, input, output, interupts etc:
http://www.netax.sk/hexoft/docu/itimer_en.pdf


active timer with accelerometer and power controll:
http://www.netax.sk/hexoft/docu/iAccTimer_en.pdf


Hi Igor,

How can I get one of those timers? I live in Brazil.

tks

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2013, 05:21:02 AM »
easy, write me mail, or send me private message ... however actually it looks like the only comercionally available ESC which works without compromises is Jeti spin (non pro version)

Offline Duke.Johnson

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2013, 09:42:16 AM »
Igor
Where can we get pricing/cost for the different timers and programmers you have for sale?

Offline Tania Uzunova

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2013, 10:55:15 AM »
 ;)
Hi, Mr.
www.indoorgeebee.com

There it is the web where you can find detail information about all timers.. :)

Regards, Tatyana

Offline Duke.Johnson

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2013, 12:26:57 PM »
Thanks

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2013, 02:40:33 AM »
ladies always know everything :- ))))))))))))

Offline bill rutherford

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2014, 07:38:08 PM »
Thanks Igor.
     This users guide is going to be a big help.
     Running my e flight 32 770kva on 5 cell and it seams to be OK. Looking forward to the Axi Bill.

Offline TDM

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2017, 11:03:41 AM »
Igor I went to your site to look in to the timers you offer.
There is no buy button or any pricing information.
At the top of this thread none of the links work anymore.

I found the documentation on the timers you sell but the question is where do you get them? Can you point me in the right direction?
Thanks
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2017, 11:33:53 AM »
That page runs on my home raspberry PI, it is static page, so sorry there are no such butoons, simply send me private message here on stunthanger or contact me on that mail which you see on my pages.

Offline TDM

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2018, 08:19:58 AM »
Igor how can I get a more pronounced motor deceleration on the down line?
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2018, 12:51:40 AM »
Simply try stronger sensitivity. But be sure that timer has room to deccelerate, means there is difference between "target throttle" and "Min".
In any case it always accelerates more than deccelerate, because prop has airfoil allowing more pull than brake and especially fact that you accelerate at higner RPM and deccelerate at lower RPM, so pulling has more power than braking.

Offline TDM

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2018, 06:16:19 AM »
Igor here are my settings:

Target 165
High 200
Low 100
Sensitivity 85

In the loops is great the cycling of power is great. In the squares or the wing over the motor doesn't come off till just before I pull out in the corner way too late. Can I have it come off a little earlier?
Or maybe it is the low RPM limit set in the ESC that is overriding the timer impute?

You can listen to the motor run here thanks for your advice.

And you might want to revise the links provided in the first post as none of them are working.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2018, 06:43:26 AM »
Sorry, for links. That server is not payd anymore and I cannot change it.

New link is here:

http://maxbee.net/downloads/downloads.htm

there are all guids and other texts.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2018, 07:09:03 AM »
Igor here are my settings:

Target 165
High 200
Low 100
Sensitivity 85

In the loops is great the cycling of power is great. In the squares or the wing over the motor doesn't come off till just before I pull out in the corner way too late.

I would say it is late also in loops.

I would say (from what I see on video) that the motor is not able to reach enough power. We use sensitivity somewhere from 50 to 70. Setsitivity 85 must do far stronger power boost than I see. That is why I think it does not have enough power. Means I think the timer asks for more and motor does not deliver it, and that is reason why it is at constant speed till end of figure. Lower sensitivity with stronger motor will make it better  -  it will brake earlier because lower sensitivity, but better reaction of motor will pull much more on the top of the figure. I hope I explained it enough, if not, ask deeper.

So I think there is something limiting its finctionality and to mind comes some (or combination) of following:

- too low motor KV - it simply cannot make RPM asked by timer
- not enough battery cells - the same problem like before
- too heavy prop - cannot spin up early and brake easy
- too large prop - the same like before
- too high or too low "target throttle" with combination to "MAX" and "MIN" - motor is limited by maximum or minimum throttle command - it slould be close to 150 so it can boost to 200 or brake down to 100. 165 is on upper edge, but still OK I think. Fix for this problem is to change "max RPM" and "MIN RPM" in ESC and apropriate shift of "target throttle" in timer.

My 5" pitch props need at least 11000 at full load with discharged battery (so it is not limited on end of flight). That is why we use 6 cell batteries with 700 RPM/V motor. And why I like small and light props.

Some people like large props with large heavier motors - that limits acceleration, so such combo will need smaller sensitivity to limit this effect. In exterme, some people limit acceleration at all by setting "MAX" in timer to value of "target throttle" and they use only brakig in wind.

 

Offline TDM

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2018, 07:47:54 AM »
Igor the motor has 1150W 510KV. I think I might be low on the KV rating. I can see how it doesn't reach the high end of RPM but it should get to the the low end for sure. 
Tried a 6in pitch prop with target of 151-153 and that is delivering similar results as far as motor run but with much better line tension.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2018, 08:18:48 AM »
I think 510 rpm/V is too little for 5" pitch prop. F2b Version of axi has 700 and it is good match for 5" pitch prop and 6 cells.

Offline TDM

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2018, 12:21:04 PM »
I read the instructions again and I think i found the mistake. I have to reset the Minimal RPM on the ESC settings.
I think I understand it now.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline TDM

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2018, 07:42:18 PM »
How important is the "Calibration"?
I tied the ESC settings which I understand fully now and had no change in the overall run. I put the ESC settings on graph paper and plotted the
Target Rpm and sensitivity and got some 7000-10500 rpm at 100% sensitivity and there is no way that is what i get in flight. Actually I don't get much change at all in wing over i climb the rpm go up a little and stayed like that all the way through no change on down line. The only thing that comes to mind is the lack of calibration I did not run yet.
Thanks for any advice?
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2018, 01:29:04 AM »
Calibration is not necessary for normal function. It only stores "normal" centrifugal force, so it can know the "neutral" while processing sensitivity (gain of regulator). The result is, that if you have properly done calibration, it will not change lap time if you change sensitivity. I do not change sensitiviy if it is once properly set, so I am OK with fact that its change will also change lap time, therefore I do not do calibration myself.

In your case I still think that KV=510 is simply too little. If it does not change RPM while climbing as you say, ther regulator requests more than motor can do, and it will get higher rpm  when unloaded - means alreday at descending, and regulator will go down with "throttle" only after that.

That is why I use 6 cells with kv=700

here you can see normal function ... that was sensitivity aproximately 70 and you can hear that it is already too high in some maneuvers.


Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2018, 01:31:49 AM »
Also check if you have sensor really well attached and paralel to FLIGHT PATH, people sometimes attach it paralel to fuselage which is cold be several degrees out of the circle (depending on model trim)

Offline Vitalis Pilkionis

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2018, 03:28:04 AM »
Also check if you have sensor really well attached and paralel to FLIGHT PATH, people sometimes attach it paralel to fuselage which is cold be several degrees out of the circle (depending on model trim)

I think that is how I have attached mine - parallel to fuselage. Can that cause reduced sensitivity of the device, because I fly with value 150 and only have satisfactory action.


Vitalis

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2018, 05:30:26 AM »
That yawing angle makes something like phase shift, means strongest pull is when sensor is vertical. If is it little out, it will pull in wingover strongest when model is at angle of that yawed sensor, in this case LATER than at level and brake strongest PAST the level (under the level altitude) - that is what we do not want.

If it is yawed in, it will pull earlier and brake strongest in altitude equal to that negative yaw angle.

But it does not change amout of action. That is defined by sensitivity and difference between max and min in ESC.

Offline Vitalis Pilkionis

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2018, 09:23:56 AM »
That yawing angle makes something like phase shift, means strongest pull is when sensor is vertical. If is it little out, it will pull in wingover strongest when model is at angle of that yawed sensor, in this case LATER than at level and brake strongest PAST the level (under the level altitude) - that is what we do not want.

Thanks Igor, I think this is exactly what I'v been observing in my model behaviour - while going down in wingover the brake kicks in when model is around 35-40 degrees to level (I mean a little later than I'd like it to kick in). Also the same behaviour I observed in the downpath of all other figures. I'v been wondering about that all the time, but thought it's supposed to act this way, since there is no option in firmware to adjust that.


Vitalis

Offline TDM

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2018, 07:26:53 AM »
If I understand this correctly your sensor reads the centrifugal force acceleration and compares it to the calibration setting. If calibration is on a different lap time than what you actually fly it is all screwed up then. That would make sense why it went wrong for me. I will try a higher Kv motor too.
I went out and tested it yesterday and did the calibration and it was much better after that.
Thanks
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline TDM

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2019, 04:08:51 PM »
If there was a firmware or program that will modify the throttle in dives and climbs in straight line maneuvers that would be sweet. Maybe perhaps in addition to the target and sensitivity to add down line break and up line acceleration.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline TDM

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2019, 02:40:44 PM »
Does anyone know of a new software/firmware available for the Igor Burger timers? And if it is possible to update the old one?
I heard something about a new timer with new software. I might be wrong.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Fred Underwood

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2019, 09:02:07 PM »
New timer mentioned here in October 2016.  I didn't see another newer one.

https://www.facebook.com/MaxBee-363984487112995/

Fred
352575

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2019, 01:36:14 AM »
New timer mentioned here in October 2016.  I didn't see another newer one.


Right, there never was any "update" for firmware. New timer has only new hardware, but the same fimware, so its function is the same. Hardware was changed because I had several requests to repare damaged cable between connector and sensor (cut, broken etc). New timer has all on one PCB and cable is easily removable, so in case of damage it is easy to replace. It is standard R/C elongation cable for servo, so you can even buy shorter or longer if necessary, or not to use any if ESC has cable long enough (for exaple on indoors).

May be I am "old chool" but I released it after 4 years development, when I was sure there is nothing to do anymore. I think I was adequate betatester, so I did not release any "beta" versions as it is usual in actual production of electronics for 1 year life time  HB~> ... so I did not have updates and it is also not updatable.

Offline Frank Imbriaco

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2019, 08:39:41 AM »
Hi Igor :
Don't check this thread too often and it pretty much answers a few of the questions I sent in my PM to you.
Hopefully, I'll hear from you soon regarding the other questions.
Frank

Offline TDM

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2019, 11:02:03 AM »
Jeti Spin Pro has some brake settings now. I remember in the past something was taken out of the Spin version when they made the transition to the Pro version. That change made the Pro version undesirable for our use. I think it had to do with brake settings, but I am not sure. Is this something new ("manual brake settings") in the Pro versio? If yes does it mean we can now use the Pro version?

Another question I have is if I have a max 32A on the bench which means less in the air is there a difference in using the 66A ESC vs the 33A ESC? If yes what is the difference and why?

Thanks
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Joe Yau

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2019, 11:12:15 AM »
Jeti Spin Pro has some brake settings now. I remember in the past something was taken out of the Spin version when they made the transition to the Pro version. That change made the Pro version undesirable for our use. I think it had to do with brake settings, but I am not sure. Is this something new ("manual brake settings") in the Pro versio? If yes does it mean we can now use the Pro version?

Thanks

I don't recall it was the brake settings..  I believe it was the 3D-heli setting (which has the quickest speed change response)  that was deleted.  and the Pro version only has the constant speed setting that was recommended to use with Active Timers..  But there's a "fast response" setting option setting that I have not tried.


« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 09:28:59 AM by Joe Yau »

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Users guides for my timers
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2019, 03:16:19 PM »
Yes, the problem is respond speed,especially with combination of the initial spin up.

PRO version has deleted not only Heli 3D mode, but all modes and replaced by detailed settings of many parameters, unfortunatelly Heli 3D settings are impossible to reach. Also quicker response is slower than old Heli 3D which did not have any low pass filters. It is bad thing with noisy transfer from transmitter pot to servo lead from receiver, but in case of C/L model it means that ESC can add power with delay, when timer already calls for braking. Result is that it is impossible to find satisfying sensitivity setting. May be if someone who did not try it yet, will not see that it is not OK, but once you reach well tuned active timer settings, difference is clear.

Reason are new features for 2.4 data telemetry, which replaced old functions not used by R/C guys, unfortunatelly we (CL) are not feeding R/C makers, so they do development fpr R/C, not for C/L.


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