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Author Topic: T-Rex electric build thread  (Read 26250 times)

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #50 on: October 16, 2009, 04:11:37 PM »
cough.... cough....

180 grit.

bob

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2009, 09:58:16 AM »
Well, not all is well in mudville. Or should I say Windville? You guys from Texas would be right at home this week on my island! Can't get a fly day in for nothing.

Well, the conversion from T-Rex to E-Rex has hit a snag I hope Brad can forgive me for. I have had one thought on this canopy style that I also see on so many airplane from Europe. Personal preference only, but I think its ugly. No offense intended Brad. Your milage may differ. And Brad and some folks locally have been concerned at the weight it looks like this bird is going to come out at as being too light. So I thought I'd remove a little weight and add a little weight. Bout 3/4 ounce net weight gain.

Hope Brad will still talk to me. At least it will be a little heavier.

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2009, 09:59:35 AM »
240 grit

cough.... cough   HB~> HB~> HB~>

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2009, 10:35:47 AM »
320 grit!!!!!!!! YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! #^ #^ #^

Unfortunately, now its gonna get real ugly. So sit down. Put the coffee out of reach (not a good thing to spew coffee all over the monitor), and take a deep breath before going any further.

bob

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2009, 10:48:13 AM »
When you are covering in film you can sand less than you would with paint (thank God!). How far you go is up to you and up to the wood you are using. Remember you are sanding bear wood, its soft! But some is harder than others and will not sand as nicely or as easily. I often stop about 240 grit but you will see grain under the film in sheeted areas that are broad and flat like a flap. In an open bay area, not so much an issue. I ifnd 320 is a nice place to stop and you get a pretty good surface. Ultracote which I use is thinner (and lighter) than monocote and will show up a little more surface texture than monocote. It pretty much comes down to knowing your surface. Actually, as we will see I have decided to go to 400 grit on this plane just to see if I can tell a visual difference between 320 and 400 once its covered... but we don't go there yet.

The next step is to use that horrific looking tool you see in the Tower catalog, the Topflite Woodpecker. It is more viscous than the pictures even look. Each point is scalpel sharp and they are about 1/4 inch long. The device is rolled over the entire wood surface (I don't do cap strips cause they are too fragile). It is not used real lightly either. The idea is to poke holes. You do not have to push down much to do it. Just a little pressure and it will go right thru 1/16 sheeting.  The problem with all film coverings is that they release gas when heated. This offgassing is more pronounced with monocote than ultracote and less so with the modern version of monocote than it was with the original. The holes let the gas escape thru the balsa. When the holes can't go completely thru the holes let gas get into the wood, off the surface. My goal is to not have to stick the film with a pin to release gasses. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I still need to here and there. But with ultracote and using the woodpecker there is very little bubble popping to do. 

The first pic shows the device, the second pic a view of the horizontal stab after it has been woodpeckered. Interestingly, very little wood is raised above the surface by the device. Ono my Strega electric I did not sand after the woodpeckering and had no issues at all. On this plane I am going to woodpecker the entire plane and then sand with 400 grit, again to see if I can detect any difference in the two procedures. One thing that will be important will be to clean the surface after that last sanding. If I fill the holes up with sawdust, they do no good. So the entire surface will be blown off with compressed air. A tac rag will not do it cause it cannot reach in the holes. I will tac rag before I cover, last step before applying the film.

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Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #55 on: October 17, 2009, 11:05:13 AM »
The Woodpecker holes will not show thru the film. I probably should have said that earlier. One place where they would is with a transparent film. I have not done that with a woodpecker yet to see how it presents. If you are going to use transparents, try it on a piece of scrap and see if its objectionable or not. This is one place where our light stunt wood is a benefit cause if you do not woodpecker more gas can escape into the less dense wood than with heavier wood like we see in RC.

You may have discerned a place where there will be more difficulty than others and that is the fuselage. The issue doesn't develope so much from our top and bottom blocks as they are usually soft and thin. But the sides where we have the doublers are the most difficult area to get gas to escap. You will often have to reheat and pin prick this area.

I should also mention that time of year has a huge determinate on your covering job. More importantly the humidity. In the winter in parts of the country where we have to use heat the wood will loose moisture content and shrink... a lot! This will produce wrinkles in your covering jobs. Its what causes planes coming from the far east to arrive with bubbles and blisters that have to be shrunk down. Many manufacutring faciilities are now carefully climate controlled to minimize this. If you cover in summer with high humidity be prepared to see ugliness in winter when the humidity drops.

I often wait til late winter when the humidity is lowest and the planes present with alot of wrinkles and reshrink a that time. Again, another good reason to not over heat and overshrink your plane's covering films and another good reason to use a film that has alot of shrink degrees in it. I have on a number of occasions run out of shrink on ARF's that have been overheated to come out of the box in America with no wrinkles. I actually feel better when I see some because then I know I have some room to work with. When you cover your own, you are in control.

As a side note here, there are some irons that actually have the temperature of the settings in degrees on them. Both the full size and trim iron by 21st Century Products are such irons. Unfortunately, I cannot recommend their films at all.  These are much safer to use cause you know where you are at. I always calibrate a new iron with a temp guage when its new. Trim irons are pretty difficult to measure. Maybe an infrared thermometer would work with them. Also an iron with actual temp can be used to give you an idea of how much heat you are using in your hot air gun technique. There is no good way to measure this accurately. It all depends on how close you are with it, if you are using a defuser nozel (please do), and how fast you are moving the gun over the surface. But You can compare the shrink you get with an iron at a given temp and then use the gun to just shrink an adjacent area to about that amount and have some idea where you are at.  Over time you can get pretty good at this.

Well, off to woodpecker the entire airplane. After that I will sand it with 400 and then blow it off. Then the dust has to settle. The heat in the shop will go off, and I will not go near the shop for a good while. If you wouldn't shoot paint in the place cause of dust, don't expect to cover in it and not get dust showing up in the finish.

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Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2009, 10:05:35 AM »
Ok, today I'll start the covering with Ultracote. I'll show some of the things I have learned in covering over the years and empahsize that I am still learning. But you can with practice do a covering job that will let you gather reasonable appearance points at contests in a lot less time and with a lot less weight than a paint job. Please don't think I'm trying to put down paint jobs. I love them. Used to do them. But I do not have the patience to do it any more nor the desire. I don't fly at the NATS and am not now or ever interested in having a plane sit in the front row there. Just not my thing. But I do want a plane that I can be proud of and that looks really nice. What I will share are the things that work in my hands. Are there other ways and materials? Absolutely! I'll also be showing the Windex method of applying film later on in the thread as I get to the trim colors.

For starters I'll just go over the materials I'll be using. Two are not shown in the pic below. The first is a sheet of glass. There is nothing else to cut trim on that will get you a fine clean line. Formica can til you get the first cut on it and then when you rn a blade over it sometime in the future you wind up with a glitch. Glass is the only thing I have found. Wood of any kind has grain and will deflect a blade and give a non straight cut. The second not shown (cause I forgot to put it in the pic  HB~>) is a tac rag. Not the one you have been using for the last 3 years or even the last model. A brand new, unused tac rag. If it had dust on it it will shed dust to the model. You can make them yourselves or buy them, but use a new tac rag on each each model and go over every surface before you do it. You do not have the option of wet sanding off dust or burying it in clear. Its going to show so get it off now. You can't do it later. Also on the same line, be careful not to seperate the backing of the film until just before you are going to place it on the model for attachment. It will pick up dust and it will show. This is the most frustrating part of film covering. You want to know how good the arf builders are? Everyone is always putting them down. Just look at the covering jobs and the lack of imperfections under the surface. It will humble you.

Blades: You need more than you can imagine. I ue straight edges and scaple blades. I don't use curved blades but have, its just harder to get consistant cuts cause you never know where on the blade you are actually cutting. Buy them buy the bunch, buy them cheap cause no mater what you use and how much you pay they are going to get pitched so often you will not believe it. If you feel the slightest drag on a cut, if you have to repeat a cut to get it, if you feel any vibration in the blade during a cut, its time to change the blade. When you are cutting on glass, guess which is harder, a thin steel edge or glass?  I just cannot stress enough how important a fresh sharp blade is to your end result. Lastly in blades, you need a disposal container. In medicine we learned to use sharps boxes. Since we are not dealing with body fluids here (if we are its your own, so no worry about cross contamination...sharp remember?) we do not need a puncture proof plastic container. But you should use something thick enough that the garbage man isn't going to get hurt from I use the thickest cardboard box I have with a slit that only lets the blades go in. When its filled I tape it shut with a few layers of duct tape and pitch it.

Irons: You need at least two. A full size one and a trim iron. I will sometimes use a third one with a sock on it. Socks where out very fast, commercial or home made. I think a cotton sock home made one gives a better surface but it requires a higher temp setting to get the temp you want to the film. If you use a sock you must check the temp on the surface of the sock with a monocote thermometer, the temp settings on teh irons are not accurate enough. As I said I like the 21st Century irons because they have actual temp settings on them, but any brand is fine as long as you ck the setting temp and know what temps you are using.

A heat gun is used by most but must be used judicously. Use it heavy handed and you will melt holes and crate warps, and make messes. Used right and it is a huge time saver and lets you arrive at a much higher quality finish.

Lastly you need some kind of a soft surface to rub the film to the surface. I use a monocote glove most of the time, that is what is in the pic, but I also usually have a terry cloth washcloth available as well. Sometimes something thinner works better.

Also notice the irons are not on the worktop surface, but on holders. This keeps them from bleeding heat to the work top and increases their life. Also do not neglect the towel to work on. No mater how clean you have the surface, there will be stuff on it that can cause a divot in soft (and even hard) blasa. Foam under it is even better. But don't do this on your glass surface. You are going to need access to it as you work.

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Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2009, 10:19:38 AM »
No step has helped me more to get a really nice finish than when I finally gave up trying to cover an entire surface with one piece of film and started doing the tips and curved surfaces with separate pieces. First I am going to do the show the inside tip of the elevator. I have cut a narrow piece of film that will give me about 1/8 to 1/4 inch of coverage past the edge of the end after being wrapped around the tip. This doesn't have to be precise. Iron it to the very end first, if its a curved surface like the outboard tip, iron it along the center line of the wing first. The iron temp should be the adhering temp for the film. Its on the directions. If a range is given use the middle to upper end of the range but stay away from the shrinking temp at this point. You just want to adhere it.

Where you have a corner, cut a relief slit on teh excess that will overlap the top and bottom surface as I have for the hinge line bevel. When you have a round surface to go around like at the back of the elevator's inboard end, cut slits top and bottom to allow the film to not bunch up or crinkle onto itself when you iron down the surfaces.

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Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2009, 10:43:54 AM »
The sequence of the next step is variable depending on if you are doing a glow powered model or an electric. With electrics it does not matter. With glow power it does. The concern is fuel getting under the seams of the film. Think of the direction of the exhaust oils coming from the motor and passing over the plane. You do not want the oil to be blown into a seam. You want it to pass over the seam. Thus IF YOU ARE DOING A GLOW POWERED PLANE:  :o  Cover from back to  front and bottom to top! This places each succeeding seam on top of the one behind it. Oil passing over the plane will flow from top to bottom due to gravity. Cover the bottom first, then the sides, then the top so the seams are not open to oil going over them. Its just like shingles on your house. I am doing an electric here so it makes no difference. All my excess electrons are scavenged before they reach any seams  LL~.  The photos show me sealing down seams from front to back of the elevator... fine for electric but not for glow. For glow this sequence would be done back to front so each seam overlapped the one behind it.   Nuff said. Just think of the shingles on the house and you will usually be ok. Before someone mentions it yes, wind flow could conceivably blow a seam open. So nothing wrong with always following the glo protocol. But these seams are going to be covered with an overlapping piece so I'm not concerned at all.

In the photos I sealed down in the following order: the hinge line bevel, the straight section of the tip, the round section of the tip one segment at a time. The segment cuts are about 1/4 inch apart in this curved section. If its not close enough and you see a wrinkle is going to form just make another slit. Iron motion is from the tip rolling over onto the upper or lower surface as the case may be . The rolling movement from the previously adhered tip to the surface prevents bubble entrapment.

Once the entire surface is ironed down flip it over and do the other side. This has all been done at attachment temp, 225 degrees in my case with Ultracote. If you look at the 3rd pic you will see that after the overlaping was done there are some ridges and wrinkles we would like to see go away. Now I change to an iron at shrinking temp. I have my trim iron set at 300 degrees and went over these now letting the heat shrink the film and eliminate the wrinkles. It also flattens the overlaps. Once the top and bottom sheets of film are applied they will disappear.

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Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2009, 11:01:26 AM »
Next I'll cover each hinge pocket. These are done separately and I use just one piece of film for each. I am going to overlap the top and bottom, the sides of the pocket, and the bevel beyond the pocket. I'm not concerned about the little gaps we will see form after making slits at the corners becaue the top and bottom sheets of film will overlap and cover them. This work is all done with a trim iron and at adhesion temperature.

First I apply the film along the back of the pocket. Then I adhere to the sides of the pocket. This is followed by cutting  a slit above and below at the corner of the pocket so the film can be folded back onto the adjacent surfaces without a crease or bubble.

Lastly, I cut the hinge slit and then take the end of the trim iron and seal that down inside the slit. This essentially just makes an opening that the glue that will hold the hinge in place can pass through into the slot in the wood rather than having the film scrape it off as I insert the hinge. I'm not concerned about esthetics here cause the hinge is going to hide it all.

Well, I'm now off to spend the afternoon covering tips and hinge pockets. When I get to the wing tips I will return. They will be done the same way essentially, with the end being covered first. But I will be using the heat gun rather than slits there because with the big surfaces I do not want slits to show up at the big rounded tips of this plane at all.

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Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #60 on: October 24, 2009, 05:25:35 PM »
To prepare the elevator to receive the top and bottom sheets of film I next go around and with a blade trim the overhanging film to an even amount of overlap. This is more important in light colors or transparent than dark colors. Oddly enough dark colors don't show what is under as dramatically as in paint. But an even appearance just makes the end result look neater.

Before applying the covering I take the tac cloth to the surface again. Been handling this a long time now. Left the shop a few times. Needs to be done. Also I went over my workboard and got any excess pieces of covering off so they don't get trapped under the covering.



Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2009, 05:33:01 PM »
There is one precaution you should take to keep one particular type of glitch from your finish with films. There is a crease you can get in them that is the dickens to get out. Oddly enough it comes from taking the backing off the film! To prevent this hard crease from happening, never peal the film from the backing paper. Always peal the backing paper from the film. And if possible peal it perpendicular to the direction it came off the roll from. This prevents a crease from forming in the film. I always set the film shinny side down on the board, then peal the paper backing (or clear backing if you are using monocote. (Note its hard to separate monocote from the backing. To get it started use blue masking tape. Apply a few inches to the film on one side and directly opposite it to the plastic backing on the other side with the tape extending past the edge of the films. Pull the tapes apart and the backing will stick to the tape and the monocote will stick to the tape and they will come apart).  Oh, ignore the already covered elevator in this pic. I forgot this pic until I had already covered one side. We'll get there though.


Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #62 on: October 24, 2009, 05:51:12 PM »
Now we are going to get limited by my working alone and I am going to have a little trouble showing what I do so I will explain it and show pics of the end of the steps.

1. Always cover the bottom first. You want the last overlap on the bottom so it does not show, thus the top should be covered last so the seam is on the bottom. No, you do not want seams along an edge! They will separate.

2. This step I do differently than the videos on covering show. Just works better for me. Your milage may vary. I apply one straight edge first. I tack it in the middle then stick it down along a center line from the first tack continuously all the way to an end. I then come back to the center tack and stick it down all the way to the other end. Most videos show tac points a few inches or half a span apart. This causes additional creases for me that are tough to get out. On the elevator the leading edge along the hinge bevel is my longest straight line so that is the edge I do first. I have cut the film to overlap at least an inch in all directions from the surface to be covered and I do not want to try to create a straight edge with the end of the covering along the edge. I want it to overlap the edge. In this case the tip of the bevel is an inch inside the edge of the film? Clear as mud?

3. I next go to the longest edge opposite the first one I laid down. In this case the trailing edge. I start in the middle here and pull it tight over the trailing edge and down towards the opposite side and tack it in the middle. Then I work towards an end, inboard or outboard and seal down that edge continuously to the end. I am always pulling the film tight. When I am doing this I try to get as much surface tacked as possible. On the bevel I sealed the entire bevel surface. Here on the trailing edge I am rolling the iron (adhesion settings please) over the edge as I go so I get the entire rounded trailing edge sealed down. Once I get to an end I go back to the middle and seal down to the other end.

4. All of this I have done with the full size iron at the adhesion setting. New we change gears and go to a shrink setting. Ultracote shrinks from about 275 to 350 degrees. I'm at 300 degrees on my trim iron. I am using the trim iron on the elevator tips cause they are so small. When I get to the main wing tip you can use either the full size iron or the heat gun for this step. I use the gun but my building partner and teacher Jerry Lelacher uses an iron. Just whichever works better in your hand.  The idea is to pull tightly over the curved surface (and its a compound curve here) and apply the heat just about where the film contacts the surface. You start from pulling in line with the surface and then deflecting over it. As heat is applied the film will stretch and adhere at the same time. On the elevator tip I used the iron like a pencil and just apply the heat to the tanget area of the film touching the wood. I move the iron slowly letting the film adapt to the curve all the while pulling firmly around the curve. I'll usually go from one end to the other then back and over the curve a little further til I have gone just past half way around the curve. Then I will cut off the excess and seal the edge to the wood. Try not to have the edge on the center line. Continue past it so it does not show.

5. The photos may shock you. This is as tight as I have the surface. Its about as tight as I could get it due to the flex. There are some wrinkles left, right? Yup! Big ones too. It is one of the nice things about ultracote as you will see. It shrinks A LOT!

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #63 on: October 24, 2009, 05:56:33 PM »
Trim the edges beyond the center line all the way around and then apply the film to the other side. DO NOT SHRINK IT YET!!! Just as with silkspan or any other covering if you shrink one side at a time you will create a warp. When both sides are covered then shrink a portion of one side then go to the other side and shrink a portion of that side then go back to the first side and shrink a little further along and repeat til you get to a tip. This way you minimize warps, just like with doping silkspan.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #64 on: October 24, 2009, 06:00:18 PM »
OK, how bout some ugliness? This is what happens if you get film too hot too soon. I had my large iron on a high temp rather than adhesion temp when I went to adhere down the inboard tip here and the iron slipped and hit the film. Disaster, got to start over, right? Not if you are using ultracote. Monocote and this would be a problem you would probably not recover from without stripping. Stay tuned.....

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2009, 06:13:54 PM »
My tool of choice for shrinking is the heat gun. You can also use an iron. If you use a bare iron you will scratch the film. Ugliness. So you use a sock of some type over the iron. Now we have a problem getting accurate temperatures. When the film is hot it needs to be pressed down onto the wood to get it to adhere ... or else delaminations and bubbles.  But when you use the iron to do this it dents the wood very easily. The lighter the wood (ie us) the easier it dents. More ugliness. The alternative is the heat gun to create the heat to shrink and activate the adhesive and a soft cloth of some type to press it onto the wood without denting it. A soft washcloth folded over several times works well as does the monocote soft glove I'm showing here. For me its a little easier to control but either works well. The trick comes I hate to say from just practice and experience  S?P but I'll try to share what I see and I think I have some photos that should make it somewhat clear.

First the gun must have a heat defuser on it. That is the fan shapped thing at the exhaust end. Otherwise the heat will come out too concentrated and you will have very high local temps and melt the film.

The temperature of the gun is controlled on its intake end by opening or closing the vents. I usually close mine about half way which is about as far as they close, but again I have had some experience. If its going to slow for you then close the vents til you get a good result. The other way you control heat is by how close you apply the exhaust end of the gun to the film. Closer to the surface is hotter, further away is colder. And THIS is the biggest and quickest control you have. It the one to learn to use as your primary control as you work.

You are going to apply the heat in small areas, about the width of the defuser so about 2 or 3 inches at a time moving across the span or from leading edge to trailing edge. Use a brushing stroke and start with the gun 4 inches or so off the surface. Nothing much will happen there but just use a brushing back and forth motion and slowly move closer to the surface until you just see it start to shrink. Don't go any closer and brush back and forth til the film shrinks and the wrinkles in that area are gone. I stopped and took a picture of that point so you can see what you are looking for.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2009, 06:32:22 PM »
You can see by looking at the pic there is no wood showing in the shrunken area of film. It is shrunk, it is not attached to the wood. You would not stop here, I did to take the picture. The film at this point is hot and you immediately rub it down using the soft cloth or soft glove to adhere the film to the wood. If you do not do this step the film will look smooth, but it will not be adding anything to the strength of the model. A model will be immensly stronger with film applied and adhered down. Additionally if you do not adhere it down it risks being pulled off by air pressure. Just rub the film back and forth onto the wood for a few strokes. You will see the wood when it had adhered. Notice also in the picture how localized the heat is. It has only shrunken the area under the defuser's flow. I will usually do two passes then flip to the other side and shrink and adhere the directly opposite surface before moving on. This prevents warps because you are shrinking the two sides together. Check as you go to be sure everything is staying straight.

If you have a residual wrinkle like at the inboard leading edge corner above after you have rubbed it down, just apply some more heat in that area and rub it down. It will go away.

Oh I neglected to mention when you trim all the edges be sure to trim them so the overlap is on the bottom of the center lines so they do not show on the top and they do not show on the center where reflections most often occur.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2009, 06:42:04 PM »
Anybody catch it? ???

That last picture is the same area of extreme ugliness that I showed in post # 64 three posts back  where the hot iron got onto the film too early #^. Add that to the amount of shrink you have seen and you can start to get a picture of why so many rc builders prefer ultracote and why the top premium arf's all come covered with it. The amount of shrink I have shown is about 300 degrees. There is still over 50 degrees or roughly one half of the shrink capability remaining in the material. If I get some blisters in the sun I can accomodate them. I usually go over all my planes in late winter, usually around the end of February here in Michigan when our humidities are the lowest of the year and the wood has shrunken to its driest and shrink out any blisters or bubbles that have formed. When the wood swells from humidity in the spring I rarely see any form in the sun. Some still will, but that is part of the compromise you have with films of any type. Some do it more (monocote) some do it less (ultracote).

So now I am on to covering the rest of the plane. It will all be in black to start. When I get to the fuselage I will return and go thru the sequence I use to cover it and the same with the wing. I'll be back and post pics when I get there. Yea, I do wish I could fly it tomarrow as i could if it was an arf. But I have the E-Strega and my rc electrics that I'll fly tomarrow. The wind is supposed to drop... finally!!!!!!!

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Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2009, 07:57:39 AM »
GREAT THREAD!  In hindsight this part of the build ought to be in the Finishing forum - there is as much great info here as in any of the painting posts.

Bet you are happy to be past the sanding stage!  :X

That Ultracote has an amazing amount of shrink available.  I have not (yet) tried Ultracote but it will definitiely be on the list for the NEXT round of projects. ... 

Don't know what your weather is like on the Island but here in mid-MI it's been good weather for buidling and covering....  :P
 
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2009, 08:10:28 AM »
GREAT THREAD!  In hindsight this part of the build ought to be in the Finishing forum - there is as much great info here as in any of the painting posts.

Bet you are happy to be past the sanding stage!  :X

That Ultracote has an amazing amount of shrink available.  I have not (yet) tried Ultracote but it will definitiely be on the list for the NEXT round of projects. ... 

Don't know what your weather is like on the Island but here in mid-MI it's been good weather for buidling and covering....  :P
 

Yeah, I agree.  Great thread.
My building season has already begun on my next electric ship.
Crist
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Waxahachie, TX
Electric - The Future of Old Time Stunt

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #70 on: October 27, 2009, 10:35:44 AM »
Thanks Christ and Dennis. Yea I thought about it being in the finishing area but I thought the continuity deserved to have in in electric.

Actually, the temp is mid 50's this morning, winds under 5, I'm going flying! Got an e-smoothie to retrim and a strega to see about a cut down prop with.

bob

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #71 on: October 30, 2009, 06:00:36 PM »
On to the fuselage. One thing you will find if you do much covering is there will be days when one method works better than another in your hands. And there will be times when you will try one method and are not happy with the result doing something one way and will want to redo it in another. Just take the heat gun, add some heat and lift off what you don't like and redo it. Don't pull it up without heating though or you will tear wood and leave adhesive behind and then have a mess to deal with.

I'm going to move on to covering the cowl and belly pan vents to demonstrate this. Some of these photos you will notice will be a tad out of sequence but when I got an out of focus picture or found a better one later to illustrate a point I used pics out of sequence. First I'm going to show a fairly common method you would use on a vent or cowl with a round opening to cover the round. I did not like the result I got in this case and tried 2 other ways unitil on the third I got what I wanted. Maybe cost me an hour in total time start to finish and once I found the method that worked best on my contours it was fast to finish up the other 4 vent openings the same way. Think of how much time it takes to lay dope down silkspan in the same location.

First I tried to cover the section all in one piece and then cut the openings out and use cores or slits around the curves to get the shape covered.  I did not like the results as you will see, but its a way that often works, just not for me here on this day. Since I'm going to go into the covering of the belly pan in detail a little further along I'll just start with it covered with a single piece of film and then show the cutout and the slits made in the covering. I then used the trim iron to iron these down. Notice I had wood showing thru. Not what I wanted. I did go back and apply dope and it hid it and it would be acceptable, but I wanted something better for this model. As always though, its your inidividual decision how far you are going to go on a finish, film, dope, or whatever finish you use. I'm just trying to show some different methods here. This method often works well with a smaller radius like on a cylinder head opening in a cowl ... the small radius corners. The gores wind up overlapping on the inside and no space shows between them... you'll see this on the section on covering the belly pan when I get there.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #72 on: October 30, 2009, 06:06:19 PM »
After looking at the result with the black dope to cover the slits I decided to try applying a thin tape of film on edge along the inside of the vent opening, and then ironing it down over the curved lip to cover the slits. Method number one was quick and dirty. Method # 2 was try to fix quick and dirty. I wound up with creases and wrinkles I could not make go away. So heat gun out and do it the way I should have in the first place.

Most often when you have an edge the best result will come when you use seperate pieces of film to cover the edge first then apply the overlying section of film. Much as I did on the hinge pockets previously. So here I am laying down 4 separate sections of film cut in rectangular shapes along the edges of the opening and overlapping the opening by about 1/4 inch. The pic shows where the various pieces will go.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #73 on: October 30, 2009, 06:11:59 PM »
Then I make a single cut at the beginning of the radius (blue arrow in pic #2) so that there will not be a crease where the radius begins.

As an aside I found in the pics of this sequence excellent examples of how to tell if you blade is sharp enough. In the first pic the line points to a very sharp line cut. The blade is sharp enough. In the second picture the line without the arrow indicates a ragged cut. The blade is too dull. Stop immediately and replace the blade. These are the best pics I have ever gotten to show this so that is why I interjected them here.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2009, 06:20:05 PM »
No I am going to use the iron in a different way. I will be using the trim iron and since I am doing a curve I will match the contour of the iron to the curve. I'm using the trim iron here and have outlined the curve of the iron since the contrast was poor. Also I am not going to just adhere the film here but I want to shrink it around the curve as well. I am going to turn the heat up to about 350 degrees here. Yes, going to max shrink to do this. I apply the iron and at angle to the curve that is sanded on the opening of the vent (i.e. the opening is rounded in cross section, not just a sqare cut opening) and roll it from the center to the sides of the curve in a slow sweeping motion letting the heat do the work. The film adapts to the curve and adheres to the wood. Lastly a pass down the straight section on normal adhesion temp and this is the result in the second picture. I'll go back over any irregularities with high heat until they disappear and the vent is done.

bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2009, 06:32:01 PM »
Now to cover the rest of the belly pan with the vent edges done I use a single piece of ultracote and adhere it first just along the center line of the bottom of the belly pan about 1/4 inch wide. I just want to secure it from moving and gain something to pull against (pic 1.. shows the middle where I ironed it down. Next (pic 2) I went to the middle of the edge and pulled the film down tightly to the edge of the pan and adhere it along that edge, but on the outside of the pan, not trying to go around the edge.

The third pic shows how the edge is secured around the curved cutout of the airfoil of the wing. Slits are cut perpendicular to the edge and the film folded over with the iron and ironed down to the edge.

The fourth pic shows the same thing done on the ends but this time on a convex rather than concave contour. These are all ironed down well with the long excess still attached. Lastly I pull out the heat gun (or you can use a socked iron at about 275 to 300 degrees) to shrink the film down and then when it still hot immediately rub it down with your covering glove or soft towel to adhere it to the wood. Finally the excess is cut off AFTER all the shrinking is done. Its a good idea to go over the wrapped around edge with the heat gun on adhesion temp again before cutting. I usually use a blade and leave about 1/16 inch wrapped over the edge to help hold it, especially against any reshrinking I might do in the future.

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2009, 06:57:28 PM »
In this sequence I will show the covering of the nose ring of the open front cowl. Again I am at liberty and using it here since I am doing an electric and have no fuel entry issue. Were this a glow powered plane I would have covered the bottom of the cowl first THEN applied the nose ring area so any fuel passage going aft would be over and not into a seam.

For the cowl nose I first applied the outside then the inside. First I adhered the back edge of the section of film that would do the piece in one section of film. (pic 1)

The Starting at the center line (pic 2) I pulled straight down over the lip applying heat with the heat gun going towards the nose, all the time pulling down and around into the opening of nose so the material is stretched around the lip of the cowl at the same time it is shrinking around the outside.

Finally (pic 3) I move lateral to the first area and repeat til I get all the way around the cowl. You can probably see this is the same way you do the compound curve of a wing tip.  I then trimmed the excess and applied a strip on the inside of the nose opening about an inch wide to present a smooth appearance inside the nose opening. But I'm not interested in going all the way to the back of the nose block. Just my choice. I've blacked it out and its not visible in the end. If it turns out to present otherwise, I'll come back and add to the area with another piece.  This inside piece is then trimmed and sealed to the outside piece with just a small amount of overlap.

Well, that's all for now.

bob branch y1

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2009, 07:00:50 PM »
Oh, just in case anyone thinks I would be so cruel as to allow my pilot to suffer a broken neck on a hard corner.... LL~

bob

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2009, 01:53:50 PM »
The fuselage is covered in sections. Sequence wise I find it looks neatest if done as you would for a glow model: bottom first, then sides, then top. If its a glow plane this prevents oil from being drawn by gravity into the seams. You want to apply one section, sealing the edges first, all the way around. I usually go along one long edge, heat that down, then do the opposite edge Pulling as tightly as I can across the film so the wrinkles are minimized. However, I will not get them all out and am not trying to. The heat will do that. If you do not seal and edge down and then apply heat that edge will curve into a convex contour and the film on the very edge will roll up. You will not hide it. Pull it off and recover it.

 

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #79 on: November 01, 2009, 02:07:02 PM »
To cover an access opening like an elevator control horn hatch, or the hatch over the tail gear wire, place the hatch part on before you cover the plane. Don't glue it, just set it on and cover over it. When you are all done with that section then cut along the seam cutting closest to the hatch itself so you will have a tad of film to roll over the fuse surface edge of the hatch. If you do not come out with enough you will have to cut a thin strip and apply it to keep the wood from showing thru the seam.

This often winds up requiring you to remove the film from the hatch itself and recovering it. The real purpose of covering with the hatch on was to keep the film on the surrounding sheeting at normal contours. Otherwise it will dip into the opening and you may not have the contour you want. It can work both ways. On the T-Rex I did the cover then remove hatch and recover the hatch method. Why? So I could show you what it looks like if you remove film without using heat!   

The first pic shows the two elevator hatches. The top one I have left covered after cutting it free from the covered fuse side. You can see it is a nice smooth surface. (btw, the close up pics are all with a macro lense so its pretty magnified, my eye cannot see the level of detail in many of these pics).  The bottom hatch has had the covering removed without applying heat to soften the film adhesive and then recovered. You can see the difference. When you pull film off without heating you will see wood fibers have been torn off the wood and adhere to the adhesive side of the film. The bottom one lets you see just how much damage is done. Not to worry, you just have to remove the film (with heat of course) sand it, then recover. That's what I'll be doing but this was such a nice place to show it that I thought I would (also small and easy to fix). 

The next pic shows the opening with the film rolled around the edges of the fuse side. I usually do not put any on the underlying surface unless after I get it all assembled I see wood through the seam, then I will lay a small band of covering over the landing surface of the underlying hatch support if there is any. The film should also just wrap around the hatch itself when you cover it. Oh, always label the parts on the inside. Once in a while you may do a really good job of cutting the parts out and preping them the same and not be able to tell which is which. I'm not that good a builder so it doesn't often mater, but in the world of laser cut parts you can never be too cautious. 

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #80 on: November 01, 2009, 02:18:47 PM »
Finally the fuselage is covered. Once the edges have been sealed down, just shrink the material with heat and rubbing it down as before. Start in the middle of a section and work towards the ends.

The next step will be to do the trim. I do not iron trim on initially. I place it by the windex method. The only material you can reliably do this with is monocote. It can go over any other film. But it must be monocote. Only their adhesive works. It does not work with ultracote as the trim. And you can do this with adhesive trim sheets as well as film.  Cut your trim piece... use templates... but you already know that. Tack cloth the surface before the next step!  Spray the surface the trim  is going to be applied to with windex... liberally. The windex somehow activates the adhesive and allows it to bond to the underlying film without heat. Do not use a fine mist of windex, get it wet! You will be able to position the trim piece on the windex covered surface for quite a while. When you are satisfied, squeege the excess windex from under the trim with a credit card moving towards the edges. In some places, usually over a rib or other quick contour change it will seem to not want to stick. Have patience and just keep squeegeeing ... in a few minutes it will stick. But pretty much everywhere it will stick right away. Be sure all the bubbles are removed. They will all come out. That is part of the beauty of this method. Finally wipe off the excess windex, then let it dry... for 24 hours! Don't rush it.

Once it is dry you take a bottle of monocote solvent. READ THE DIRECTIONS! You will apply it along all the trim edges with a cotton swab and it will flow under the edge permanently sealing it down. Once you it has set there a bit and before it evaporates off rub the excess off with a soft towl or cotton gauze. You will notice it polishes off leaving the films with a nice soft patina with a high shine. If you leave it on it til it evaporates it is the devil to get off. I'd recommending using monocote solvent to get it off if you do this. Its easy to work with though and the trims will not lift up so do not worry about it.

Now the debatable point. I have done it both ways and had both work fine. Do you heat the trim down or not. Most people do not. I do not if everything stays looking the way I want. But I have seen times when I start to see some seperation or I think more often it is from the monocote never having been shrunk at all it starts to react differently to humidity changes from the underlying film that has been shrunk. I have taken recently to waiting another day or two after the solvent has dried and then using a socked covering iron set on low heat, about 225 to 250 degrees... remember the ultracote has already been shrink to that temp or higher) and adhereing the monocote with some heat. If I am seeing wrinkles in the monocote trim I'll up the heat til they go away but just a bit at a time. Its really just a mater of understanding the films and responding to what they do.

In these pics I have applied a checkerboard trim strip to my T-Rex fuselage after it has been completely covered.

Next I'll cover the wings.

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #81 on: November 01, 2009, 02:36:10 PM »
WOW You changed up!  I was expecting black & white just like the Strega - that checkerboard stripe is HOT!  This is a great build thread - and I'm predicting this will be the BEST looking T-Rex out there.
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #82 on: November 01, 2009, 03:55:22 PM »
Dennis

Thank you for the compliment. I think the design Brad came out with on the arf is stunning. But I want to be able to get appearance points so I have to do something different. Besides, no way I would put myself in the class with the folks that cover arf's. They are after all professionals and it shows if you try to duplicate their work. I've learned no to. Still, there are different ways to see things.  The wings will have some of the Strega's themes, but I am trying to use the checkerboard theme there as well. We'll see if it works or not. If not, one of the nice things with film is you just heat and peel and change what you want. No huge amounts of sanding go by the boards. No weight gain either. It does require more maintenance than a paint finish of course because you have to keep it up. But like everything there are tradeoffs. I trade off time for a result I know I am going to be satisfied with. Sometimes I'm satisfied with a paint finish, sometimes I'm not.  But as in painting, you don't get a perfect job the first time. It takes time and patience. I think lots of times people think you just go ironing on film and get a good job and then they are disappointed with the results. The nose ring on this thing took me 6 attempts to get satisfied with. But I knew it was going to be tough when I saw it. Anyone who covers one and then looks at the arf will gain a lot of respect for the workers skill level.

bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #83 on: November 02, 2009, 08:15:48 PM »
Make that 7 attempts on the nose and I've already stripped the front fuse checkerboards twice looking for something that I like. May be getting close. Will share it when I get there.

bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #84 on: November 03, 2009, 09:58:53 AM »
Another nice feature of film covering is that if you decide your design just does not work on the plane you can easily change it after you have seen it in full scale. I had drawn the design I had on teh nose but it just did not look good on the plane when I covered it. The checkerboard arms just looked bulky and did not seem to work with the the shape of the nose of the plane. So off it came in search of a better look. 

This is what I settled on. I blunted the checkerboard at the nose to match the contour of the nose. Then I used 3M metalic silver auto pin stripping tape in metallic silver to outline the checkerboard with a black line between them and a red to create an outline stripe over and under the nose and run the length of the fuse outside the silver. Three very nice features to this material. It takes a very tight bend without a wrinkle or lift off and it allows repositioning easily when it comes off the roll. 24 hours later it really stays stuck! Third, its cheap and easily available online at auto paint suppliers and local paint sopes as well. Add to that a huge range of sizes, colors, finishes, and combinations of stripes.


Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #85 on: November 03, 2009, 10:42:14 AM »
This thing just keeps looking better.  I thought I liked the original stripe but I agree this one looks better.  This is turning out to be... the T-REX of the T-Rexes.

Keep it going, gotta see this one in the air soon!
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #86 on: November 03, 2009, 03:16:09 PM »
This thread is insanely good... y1
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 07:22:00 PM by Bradley Walker »
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #87 on: November 03, 2009, 07:54:46 PM »
Brad

Some might put the emphasis on insane. But then, we are all among friends right? Regardless of paint or film, we all have to be a bit..... well, anyway.

Its time to start the wing. As with the elevators, anywhere you can dovewr an edge so you do not have to rely on using teh top or bottom sheet of film to cover a surface do it. I'll start with the wing tip cause that is where you should start any wing.  The T-Rex has a wing tip that has 2 for and aft ribs and a very thick and blunt rounded tip. Think of making a solid wing block and then instead of hollowing it out, just cut it out instead. The big blunt end should be covered separately from the wing itself. Resist the temptation to do it all in one piece. I know. You won't. I didn't for years. And I felt I was getting pretty good at it, but this is one of the things that really helps the total end result. I thought this big blunt tip would be easier to cover than a thinner one, but it turned out it was quite a challenge.

In the first pic I have tacked on the setion of film that will cover the blunt portion of the tip. But I am not going to try to do the entire tip with it. I decided that after tacking it on and seeing what was going to happen to the contours of the film. So I went back and first covered teh trailing edge and the aft 30 % of the wing tip. These in separate pieces. Then In the second pic we see that done and the end piece again tacked onto the wing tip just along the very outside edge of the tip... along the wing center line.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #88 on: November 03, 2009, 07:56:52 PM »
Opps! sorry, didn't get pic #1 uploaded. ~^  Try again, but now of course out of order.

bob

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #89 on: November 03, 2009, 08:05:54 PM »
To start forming the film over the wing tip you pull the film over the area to be shaped to and apply the heat on the film where you want it to stretch. You can use your fingers to hold the film, but while they would match the color of the plane nicely, I noted that white pants and color matching outfits to your plane seems to have become passe in stunt, so I opted to use a hemostat instead. Since I attached the film along the cord line of the wing tip I am pulling the film up and then towards the wing as the first pic shows. The second pic shows the heat gun and the angle I apply it to the film (see why the hemos work better?... oh, be careful, the tips of those things get really hot.  HB~>) Pic 3 shows the covering adapted to the wing tip and it was then trimmed and you see the final surface in the last pic. The sheet of film that will actually cover the wing itself will just be attached to this tip covering for about 1/4 inch and then trimmed off. The wingtip remains nice and smooth. It is after all where all of you look anyway, right?

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #90 on: November 03, 2009, 08:14:47 PM »
Now we can almost start to cover the wing but there is one more surface to precover, the edge against the fuselage to wing joint. You can just adhere the film down to the sheeting here. But you will find it is very difficult to get good adhesion. When you go to shrink the film it will pull away some and leave a non straight edge. Oh, that is one of the little things you have to learn to account for. No mater how well you think you have film ironed down, if you put enough heat to it to shrink the film, the seam will move. That can really be a bummer if your seam opens up or your line of demarcation of colors bends. Lest you think RC guys can't build, go to the Toledo show or a similar level show and look at the planes being judged. 1/8 and 1/16th inch overlaps of edges with no lifting and no migrating of the edges. God bless them.... fact may be God actually building the things for all I know, as for me, I ain't that good yet.  So I plan it and arrange to cover it. I am placing a strip of film about 3/4 inch wide on the wing center sheeting where the covering sheet will attach. Its the same color as the wing sheeting. I can get it down smoothly without any shrinking to speak of and be sure I have a good attach to the sheeting. The wing cover sheet of film will not have to be perfectly aligned with the fuse which of course tapers so will not be straight with anything on the wing anyway, but I have enough edges to worry about, I can eliminate one with this simple step and its invisable when you are done.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #91 on: November 03, 2009, 08:30:29 PM »
I am going to cover the bottom of the wing first, then the top. I am not going to shrink the covering until both sides are covered, except for the wing tips which will just help me avoid a mess of the top and bottom film sheets attaching to each other as we will see and spoil those nice wing tips I worked so hard to cover and Brad and the folks at Brodak worked so hard to create. Nice shaping job guys. Rather ye than me!

I attached the film fist at the leading edge inboard corner and the trailing edge tip where the trailing edge notches for the flap. That's the widest point and secures the film so it will not move. Next was that edge over the fuselage strip. Then I went down the leading edge, the top of the wingtip covering I had already done, then notched the film at the flap notch and bent the film down to cover the trailing edge. Yes, I know it is already covered. Are you a glow flier? That's two layers of adhesive to keep out the oil. Guess what? Its gonna get a third... as will most of the leading edge!

Then I trimmed the excess. You of course noted without me saying that I tack clothed the plane just before applying the film to each section? Of course you did! Murphy's law of film covering. The one spec of dust under the film it WILL be on a sheeted surface on the top of the wing.  Sorry, its the law. On the bottom sheet of film I trimmed it along the center line of the leading edge. Next the top sheet of film is applied and I overlap the bottom sheet about half an inch. This way the seam is not visible from above, and the seam is protected from oil intrusion. The leading edge where the greatest amount of oil could blow in is covered with now two layers of film and two adhesive layers. The slipsteam air is blowing oil over and away from the seam, not into it.  Overlap the leading edge by a small amount to your peril. But then you can gripe about an oil soaked film covered plane!

Notice on the pics where the film has not been shrunk yet the fingerprints, and splotches of dust, dirt, and who knows what else? Where does all that stuff come from? Not to worry. It'll get solved after its all shrunk.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #92 on: November 03, 2009, 08:41:46 PM »
Once both sides are covered its time to start shrinking the film. Again, do a section of one side then flip it over and do the opposing section of the other side to avoid warps. I started at the wing tips. I do not shrink the open bay first, I do the leading edge first then the trailing edge, then the open bay. As i shrink (I use the heat gun remember) I immediately rub the area down onto the wood with my lambswool mit or you can use a soft cloth... don't let there even be a fragment of film adhering to the cloth or it will leave a mark! Because the ribs are so far apart on the T-rex I only did one bay at a time. I work to the center sheeting and do it last. Remember the inboard film is already attached to the underlying film.

I wish I could get a picture of it but I could not make a pic of the shrinkage and pull of the film edge show up well. It will look like a bit of a foggy edge where the adhesive is still attached to the underlying film. Usually its about 1/16 in or less and you will only see it on film. This will attract dirt forever if you do no get it off. The way to do it is the same way you get off all those fingerprints and crud before moving on to trim... Monocote solvent. Sorry, I know of no other product that works. It really cleans things up and gives you very nice clean edges that will not attract dirt. You must treat it kind of like way but without the time for it to dry and haze off. I put it on with a gauze and immediately take a soft paper towel and start buffing it in a circular motion just like I'd remove hazed over wax off a car. It will haze over while you are buffing and then leave a nice soft shine on the film and be totally free of steaks and oil and crud of any type. You will never get the surface as clean with soap and water. Can't use it for general cleaning as will become evident further on in the thread but its wonderful here.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #93 on: November 03, 2009, 09:02:52 PM »
I am going to create a white leading edge band with curved edges on the ends. It will become the base for further trim. First I cut out the pattern. The top and bottom will be all done in one piece. To center the piece on the leading edge of the wing I fold it in half and crease the end edge so I have a center line. This will be more clear when I place it. pic 1

As an aside, and cause no one showed me, I had to find it buried on RCU somewhere, I'll demonstrate how to separate monocote from its clear plastic backing. Ultracote has a white paper backing and it separates readily. Not so monocote. I have fought with the cut edges with a scalpel and all maner of things til I found this. Apply a piece of blue mask tape (fresh) to the film side and the backing side, exactly opposite each other but do not let them touch (pic 2). Pull the two pieces of tape apart (pic 3) and the backing comes right off the film. ... you're welcome.

Pic 4 shows the white trim centered on the leading edge center line and I have lightly tacked it to the center line of the leading edge with heat along its entire length. The two creases at each end provide my reference.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #94 on: November 03, 2009, 09:10:20 PM »
The trim film is then rolled back and the wing surface sprayed with Windex. ... Liberally. Squeegee the liquid out with a credit card and keep doing it til it all lies flat and stays down. Repeat on the other side and let it sit still for 24 hours to dry.

to be continued. H^^

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Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #95 on: November 04, 2009, 07:45:43 AM »
Somehow I knew the Windex bottle was coming out again  ;D

I can see using WIndex on narrow pieces like stripes, bu can you truly get a piece that large to lay flat?  Seems that if there was the slightest 3D curvature or discontinuity in the shape that you would have to shrink to fit.  Instead are you literally appeal to pull/stretch the piece into place while it is cold & windexed?

I use Windex under things like stars & bars insignias if the surface is something like the droop betwen the wing ribs it is near impossible to rub it down enough to get it to lay down,
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #96 on: November 04, 2009, 09:11:02 AM »
Dennis

You mean like this? This is the lettering on the E-Strega wing. It goes over the ribs. It was put down with the windex method as well without heat. You just keep rubbing with the credit card and it will eventually lay down when you have all the windex squeegeed out. You may think its not going to happen but with patience it will. Sometimes might take 5 or ten minutes of rubbing on one spot.

bob

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #97 on: November 04, 2009, 09:17:08 AM »
Dennis, sorry the ribs did not show on the previous pic. Having seen the plane you know that its all film covered and not sheeted as it looks in the pic. At this point the windex had just dried and it had not been cleaned yet... had to wait the 24 hours and that is why the flat nonreflective surface.

Finally coming back to the theme on the fuselage I wound up with this as the wing final scheme.  The lettering will I think be metallic silver again cut from monocote and applied with the windex method. I plan on a similar theme on the horizontal stab. The rudder scheme I have yet to work out.

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Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #98 on: November 04, 2009, 10:25:02 AM »
Wing and fuse together.

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Alan Hahn

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #99 on: November 04, 2009, 11:01:59 AM »
Bob,
I was wondering if you work for Ralston-Purina? LL~

Plane looks nice---really!


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