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Author Topic: T-Rex electric build thread  (Read 26171 times)

Offline Wynn Robins

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #150 on: January 20, 2010, 03:15:21 PM »
"and YES I am jealous!  Would gladly trade building season for a January sunburn."

come down and see me in New Zealand - it has been upward of 30 degrees C for the last couple of weeks too hot to do anything - but pretty sure you will get a sunburn quickly
In the battle of airplane versus ground, the ground is yet to lose

Offline Roger Anderson

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #151 on: January 20, 2010, 03:32:51 PM »
Boy do I hate waiting!  I'm waiting to go flying, waiting for my T-Rex and waiting for my motors and battery that I ordered from Hobby King.  The T-Rex should arrive sometime on Friday but I have no idea when the things from China will arrive.  I ordered the items from Hobby King more than two weeks ago and their tracking system really doesn't give much information.

I guess I will just have to learn to be more patient but that is a skill I have not been able to develop as yet.

Offline Roger Anderson

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #152 on: January 23, 2010, 10:51:12 AM »
After six straight days of rain, things are looking up.  We are not supposed to have rain today but it looks as though the rain will return again tomorrow.  This kind of extended rain event is very unusual for this neck of the woods.  Now that we have our long building season in progress, my T-Rex arrived yesterday along with my TGY 42-50 motor and my Hubin timer.  I'm looking forward to putting this dude together and having some circle burning fun!

Offline Roger Anderson

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #153 on: January 23, 2010, 08:03:01 PM »
Things got even better today.  Had some nice sunshine and my three TGY 35-48-800, 35-48-900 & 35-48-1100 motors arrived.  I now get to do some serious playing with my electric Pathfinder test bed to find out what will work best for me.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #154 on: June 26, 2010, 08:46:12 PM »
I got a warning on beginning this post that there had been no post in 120 plus days and a suggestion I should start a new thread. I think though since so many people have referenced this thread that I should include this section as part of the original for completeness. My T-Rex has sustained an inflight wing failure. Fortunately we caught it just before things came apart and modification is being done to solve the issue.  What was observed was that the wing began to flex in maneuvers in the air. One inch flex at each wing tip one one flight and two inches on the next. At that point the plane was grounded. Rick Sawicki my flying partner noticed it as did another pilot on the flight it showed up and on the next one when it had increased we decided it had to be addressed. I cancelled my trip to Brodak because this was the Friday before Brodak's and I did not know the nature of the failure of if repair would be possible but I did not want to be limited by time.

Prior to starting any mod I checked with others who have seen the plane fly. Rick Sawicki has seen all but a handful of its flights. No flexing was noted. I checked with the Adamisin Clan because they had all seen its maiden flights. None had noted any wing flex whatsoever. The flex began the day I taped the hinges of both the elevators and the flaps. The issue of major concern is that it progressed and got worse and these were 2 minute flights. It would have separated in a full pattern.  

On returning to the shop what I found prior to opening things up was that both wings could be twisted probably 20 degrees by grabbing the tips and applying pressure to the trailing edges. This occurred in both directions and on both wings. When the plane was suspended from the wing tips and not a lot of pressure applied to the fuselage vertically perpendicular to the wing a large wrinkle developed in the covering emanating from the junction of the outboard edge of the centersheeting junction with the trailing edge and progressing outwards and forwards.  The leading edge section of the wing flexed as well but the trailing edge flexed badly.

My analysis from MY perspective... and I am not an engineer and will defer to any who have an opinion... was that the trailing edge of the wing was failing in overload. The failure was made more imminent by the added loading from taping the hinge lines. I felt that to correct the problem and allow the plane to return to flying status I had to achieve the following: 1) stiffen the entire wing and eliminate the flexing, 2) Strengthen the trailing edge section, 3) tie the trailing edge to a more rigid structure to eliminate the stress riser that was overcoming the strength of the trailing edge.  I think the cause was the wood that was selected for the airplane.  It was just not up to the loads.

To correct the problems I did the following: First I opened up the bottom of the wing. Using a scalpel I simply cut the film along the back edge of the leading edge sheeting, the inboard tip rib, the front of the trailing edge and the inboard edge of the center sheeting. This piece was removed in tact and kept for a pattern for the repair film piece. I will enlarge it 1/2 inch in all directions to close up when I'm done. I'll only have to apply the red trim tape along a small portion of the wing. The white section and the silver tape stripes will not be impacted.  Secondly on the leading edge I installed vertical grain 1/8 inch balsa spar webs from the top to the bottom spar. I did this from the rib that is at the edge of the center sheeting to one rib outboard of the landing gear and then did the trailing edge mods I'll discuss below and evaluated the result. The leading edge became rigid to the rib beyond the end of the spar webs. But there was still a tad of flex beyond. Granted there is little load there. But on looking at it and evaluating it over the last week I have decided to extend the leading edge spar web one more rib outboard to really lock the leading edge in.

The trailing edge I treated in much the same way but in two stages. First I created the webs placing them between the upper and lower trailing edge sheeting at the front of the trailing edges. The webs do not overlap the edges of the sheeting but set between the sheets. Each one is sanded to fit the contour of the trailing edge sheeting and to fit each rib well. They, like the leading edge webs are CA'd in place. These webs I took out to the next to last bay. The plane is not in my estimation flyable at this point. The stress riser is still there at the junction of the center sheeting and the trailing edge. The wing while now stronger against flex from vertical loads still twists severely. I needed to get rid of the flex stress at the inboard end. The key is already in the wing. The alignment spar box! It is a thick box section tied together from one side of the wing to the other with the alignment spar. The alignment spar box extends out past the rib that the center sheeting ends on and into the rib bay beyond the center sheeting. I started with a piece of balsa essentially a spar web doubler and custom sanded it to fit between the spar web I placed between the trailing edge sheets and the spar box. Once this was fitted and snug I epoxied it in place to both the trailing edge spar web and the alignment spar box. This eliminated the stress riser. There is now no flex from either vertical loads or twisting loads in the inboard section of the wing. I could still detect twist deflection outboard of the spar webs, most notably in the trailing edge. This led me to extend the spar webs to the inboard wingtip rib on the trailing edge and at least one more bay on the leading edge (so two bays outboard of the gear).

I hope to add the additional spar webs tomorrow and will post pictures and results at that point. I'm pretty sure from what I have seen that this will result in an acceptably rigid wing structure.  

I should also mention that I reentered the fuselage aft of the cockpit and installed the fuselage doubler to reinforce the area aft of the flap hinge line there. I had noticed flexing occurring there as well. If you will recall however, I had to cut into the structure there to access the flap horn after assembly This doubtless weakened the structure. Not shown in the build thread was a modification I did to the reinforcing member that runs along the top of the fuselage sides and perpendicular to them.To clear the complex flap horn I used I had to relieve these. I think I may have weakened things there as well. To fix this and tie this area and structure into the back of the fuse I fabricated a 1/8 play plate to span the structures I relieved and tie them and the fuse sides together and to the bulkhead at the front of the rear deck. To close up my entry I used replaced the entry cutout and used an epoxy structural fillet with WEST System structural filleting blend added to the epoxy. This tired everything back together there in a very solid manner and the repair was recovered.

One last mod I have done I think was mentioned by someone else, I bent new gear out of music wire. My outboard gear flexed due to wire being soft and I was suffering nose overs on landings due to the gear twisting off. This no longer occurs.

My final power system turned out to be a 4S system. I am currently using 4S Rhino 3700 mah packs with the Axi 2826/12 and turning an APC 12X6EP prop. I found the Rhino batteries to handle the loads much better than the 3000 mah Turnigy packs. 4 cell packs this size were inadequate. 5 cell packs were very borderline. The 3700 mah Rhinos have performed very well and are able to deal with the loads much better. The weight difference does not appear to be an issue... as long as the wing issue is solved.

Again, I apologize for adding this so late on but since so many folks have told me they have referenced this thread I thought this post should be a part of it.

bob branch
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 08:24:55 PM by bob branch »

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #155 on: June 27, 2010, 04:52:52 PM »
Here are the pictures of my repair. I will show the leading edge mods first.

The leading edge is a normal D tube type construction with half ribs between the full ribs.You can see some are plywood and support the gear. I installed 1/8 inch end grain balsa spar webs connecting the upper and lower spars. This is pretty normal. Same way the Strega is done. I was concerned with the leadout possibly rubbing near the bellcrank so I set the innermost web in front of the spars and the second one within the spars. The rest are aft of the spars. I attached the webs with medium CA and where I did not have a perfect fit to ribs or to segments of the webs I applied thick CA and then kicker to create a fillet. I extended the webs out to about the end of the flaps. The next bay begins to taper and not much load goes out there anyway. Also I found the wing was so stiff by the time extended this far I did not feel I needed to go further. I did, however, notice that going this one bay further than I had done at the time of my previous post, both on the leading and trailing edge webs did stiffen the wing further so for me it was worth the minimal weight gain.


Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #156 on: June 27, 2010, 07:59:54 PM »
Now onto the trailing edge modification I have made.

The first pic is of viewing the first bay outboard of the center sheeting. We can see the top and bottom trailing edge sheeting and between them the horizontal trailing edge. It is thicker than the trailing edge sheeting. (focus branch, focus!!!!!!! ::) ) Also visible is the box for the rear alignment spar. This is a really solid construction and it contains the alignment spar itself. This is all epoxied together and will become the load carrier for the trialing edge vertical flex loads on my modification.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #157 on: June 27, 2010, 08:07:06 PM »
In this pic I have fabricated a vertical grain web from 1/8 inch balsa to fit between the trailing edge top and bottom sheets and to butt against the horizontal trailing edge piece. It is glued in place with thick CA to the horizontal trailing edge and with thin CA to the top and bottom trailing edge sheets. As you can see there is still space present between the web and the alignment spar box. This space is greater than 1/8 inch.



Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #158 on: June 27, 2010, 08:09:48 PM »
To connect the trailing edge web to the alignment spar box I next laminated a web doubler from 1/8 inch vertical grain and 1/16 inch horizontal grain balsa. The horizontal grain wood let me sand the thickness easier to precisely match between he web previously attached and the alignment spar box. The view is edge on of this doubler.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #159 on: June 27, 2010, 08:12:11 PM »
The horizontal grain wood allowed me to custom sand it to thickness more easily so that the web doubler contacts the first web member and the aft side of the alignment spar box. The photo shows this in place at fitting.  The doubler was glued to the first trailing edge web on the horizontal wood surface and to the alignment spar box on the vertical grain side with thick CA. After it set thin CA was used to establish bond between the upper and lower trailing edge sheets.

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #160 on: June 27, 2010, 08:13:14 PM »
The last photo shows this accomplished and a filler web spanning to the next rib.


Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #161 on: June 27, 2010, 08:14:18 PM »
The rest of the bays from out to the end of the flap all have had vertical grain webs placed as well. I fit all these between the trailing edge sheets as the glue joint is easier and no additional sanding will be required before recovering.

I wound up extending both the leading and trailing edge webs to the end of the flaps as this did provide additional rigidity to the wing, especially in torsion.

The end result has removed the stress riser at the trailing edge sheeting-center sheeting junction. No flex can now be detected on vertical loading of the fuselage. The wing is now as torsionally rigid as any other wing. It should allow my T-Rex to fly on into the future to a normal life expectancy. Final finish only requires application of a section of Ultracote on the bottom of each wing.  A much easier repair than if I had painted and I have no concerns now with the taped hinge lines. 

Thanks again to Brad and John for this great flying bird. It really is a plane that I can become a markedly better pilot with.

BTW, for completeness, I have finalized flying on a 4S system utilizing the Axi 2826/12, Rhino 3700 mah packs, and APC 12X6EP prop.

I hope this is of help to others who are enjoying this wonderful bird . I know this is not an approved fix, but it is how I solved the problem that developed with this particular airframe.

bob branch

Offline RickS

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #162 on: June 27, 2010, 10:49:48 PM »
Hi Everyone,

I can vouch for this powertrain combination  that Bob mentions for the T-rex or any other similar size model,

"BTW, for completeness, I have finalized flying on a 4S system utilizing the Axi 2826/12, Rhino 3700 mah packs, and APC 12X6EP prop.'

I had used it on 3 other similar sized airplanes during the past 3 years and I can  easily vouch that it is an excellent  and well matched "plug and play combination".  After Bob played  earlier in the year with a few other combinations of  mainly battery  cell count, sizes and types, I suggested that he go back to "basics" and try this "well tested combination".  Well he did..and having seen his plane fly several times with it..I can easily add that it is just about "prefect" for this aircraft , or similar sized ones.

Just adding my confirmation..."it is a system that works".

Rick Sawicki
Richard Sawicki
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Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #163 on: July 30, 2010, 09:02:22 PM »
Update of the wing mod. It works fine. No unusual flexing noted in test session today.

Update on the power system. Tried a new power system today and will be staying with it. Transferred in teh system I had in the strega. 5S 3000 mah turnigy packs, dualsky 4260CA5. Turning apc 12X6EP at 9315. Flew it today. Awesome power. Gee, like in RC!: Everything needs MORE POWER! Now to start moving the leadouts forward from the axi's position... so I can hold onto the thing!

bob branch y1

Offline Frank Egyed

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #164 on: October 26, 2010, 07:08:55 PM »
Thanks for a most informative thread - I refer to it constantly as I'm assembling my eT-Rex   :)
One thing keeps sticking in my mind which is confusing the heck outta' me - way back on page 2 I read "concerned at the weight it looks like this bird is going to come out at as being too light."  Now this may sound stupid and probably highlights ignorance on my part, but I didn't think that was possible.  I was brought up on "lighter is better".  I understand that bigger aircraft are more inherently stable due to greater weight/momentum, but I didn't think that would extend to adding weight.  Could anyone please enlighten me...?
Thankx in advance,
Frank
You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #165 on: October 26, 2010, 07:47:02 PM »
Hi Frank. I try to be funny sometimes and can't make it fly. In the past arf's have tended to come out on the heavy side. I was really working to keep the weight as light as I could. Things can get too light if they do not stand up to use. A couple of examples I have found with the T-Rex are the wing mod and the reinforcement of the fuse in the area of the flap horn that I did. The wood was really light. Also as I flew the plane I found I could use the 3000 mah packs but I got better overall motor performance with 3700 mah rhino 4S packs from both a flight performance view and a longevity view. So I could fly it lighter with the 3000 mah packs, but the motor governed better and gave better pack survival not pushing them so hard. I did experience some pack deaths on the 3000 mah. But in big wind the bigger packs gave much better governing and steadier flight speeds. In addition the plane does not appear to be very weight sensitive. I have not noticed any softer corner or decrease in any flight capability at the heavier weight I fly today than the lighter weight I started with. The plane still has the hardest corner of anything in my fleet and is rock solid through the entire pattern.  I just could not ask for more.

bob branch


Offline Frank Egyed

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #166 on: October 26, 2010, 09:45:28 PM »
Ahh - not ignorant, gullible  ::)  And thankx for your quick reply - I can sleep tonight !  :D
Another question for you if I may - how much engine and/or rudder offset are you using?
Cheers,
Frank
You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing

Offline bob branch

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #167 on: October 27, 2010, 05:01:07 AM »
Frank

Rudder offset has always been zero degrees.

Engine offset, I started out with a lot and have been decreasing it. I did the a lot because on of my glow flying friends who flies the modern p-47 stunters told me he uses a lot now where he used to use not a lot. I found in the T-Rex that engine offset really uses a lot of power mah wise and getting rid of it really lowers mah consumption. I gradually worked it down and now fly the plane with zero degrees of engine offset. I get lots of line tension thru the entire pattern and find it is not needed. As a result of this when I set up my SV-11 arf I also set it up with zero degrees and have no line tension issues either. So I will opt for the lower power consumption.

bob branch

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #168 on: October 27, 2010, 07:27:32 AM »
...   Also as I flew the plane I found I could use the 3000 mah packs but I got better overall motor performance with 3700 mah rhino 4S packs from both a flight performance view and a longevity view. So I could fly it lighter with the 3000 mah packs, but the motor governed better and gave better pack survival not pushing them so hard. I did experience some pack deaths on the 3000 mah. But in big wind the bigger packs gave much better governing and steadier flight speeds. ... 

bob branch



Hi All,
Bob,
Thanks for the payoff quote which I have excerpted from your post.
This is what properly governed E-power has that nothing else does: the possibility of GOBS of instant torque that can be tapped in just a few critical tenths of a second.
A "stiff" low cell resistance battery that is not overly depleted and with adequate voltage headroom above the motor running voltage is critical.
Okay, I'll be quiet now.
Regards All,
 Dean P.
Dean Pappas

Offline Frank Egyed

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #169 on: November 02, 2010, 05:19:07 AM »
Thanks HEAPS Bob - your willingness to take the time to share your wisdom to help others is much appreciated...
Regards,
Frank
You don't stop playing because you grow old, you grow old because you stop playing

Offline Carl Cisneros

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #170 on: September 21, 2014, 03:30:59 PM »
Bob
what was the KV of the first set up you had in the plane?

thanks

« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 04:11:14 PM by Carl Cisneros »
Carl R Cisneros, Dist IV
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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: T-Rex electric build thread
« Reply #171 on: October 23, 2014, 12:13:55 PM »
Actually... 

I will put the T Rex against anything out there...  Flying wise...

I see they are back in stock....
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw


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