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  • June 18, 2019, 09:59:33 PM

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Author Topic: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker  (Read 410 times)

Online Ken Culbertson

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Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« on: June 11, 2019, 12:51:58 PM »
This last weekend was my first experience in flying all electric in competition.  I felt pretty good going in having made great improvements in my pattern this year with the help of Doug, Mike and Phillip.  Coming back after 35 years has proven to be considerably more difficult than I expected.  I was pleased to score a 498 last year and set my sights on about 20 points improvement this year and about another 30 next year when I have a true PA ship to fly.  I actually flew better than I expected and was complemented by my fellow travelers.  So imagine where my jaw was when they posted a 481.  Having judged a whole bunch "back in the day" I can normally guess my score so I rarely ask for my score sheets unless they are off by 10 points or more.  This time I was the 1st in line.  There was a 74 point differential between the judges.  Seems one of the judges had been overheard making comments on how much he hated electrics.

The point of all of that was background for my question:

Since "Can't hear the damn things" is one of the "Don't Likes", do you think if I put one of these in an empty pipe tunnel it will serve as an effective noise maker?

Ken
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Offline Motorman

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2019, 01:25:52 PM »
I doubt you'll get a good 2-4 break with it.
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2019, 01:49:55 PM »
See my tag line...

Maybe an 049 and a pipe tuned for noise instead of power?

  • I wouldn't trust a report of an overheard comment unless more than one person corroborated it.
  • If a judge is being harsher on 'lectrics than on slime (or visa versa, or if they just hate steam-powered planes, or purple metalflake planes and they let that extend past appearance judging), then there's a problem with the judging, and by extension, with the organizers
  • Wide point spreads happen, but if you had one guy judging like it's the Nats (which I prefer) and another guy being "nice" at a local contest, then you could get a big spread.  I think we could do that with our local pool of judging talent here in the Pacific Northwest.
  • If you're seriously concerned that electrics are being singled out -- for better or for worse -- then you should note if there seems to be a trend in the scoring.  I, personally, would quietly mention it to the organizers, and leave it at that.  Because (A) I don't want to raise a stink, and (B) I trust the locals to organize a fair contest.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2019, 02:29:03 PM »
not without lifting your left butt cheek.....Tim Wescotts sig line is worth noting

OTOH....smoke generator AND A Sound system with Merlin engine timed to each transition....is going to be worth 55 extra points...and truth is...with a BIG pampa plane these systems now are fairly light weight....battery is the killer
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2019, 04:01:43 PM »

  • Wide point spreads happen, but if you had one guy judging like it's the Nats (which I prefer) and another guy being "nice" at a local contest, then you could get a big spread.
My post was more to "get it out of my system" than anything else.  It's out.

No problem with the organizers and my high score was from a Nats judge so mentally I have just thrown the other one out.  In contests where I have had any say in the scoring we tried to resolve our differences if there was more than 30 or so points between judges.  That is what warm up flights are for.  This thread was not intended to be about an individual score and I am afraid I made it look that way.  What it was intended to be about was the warnings I got when I went electric.  I was told that there were judges that didn't like electric yet one look at who was flying electric told me that they were wrong.  Well, I was wrong.
It is the pipe thing all over again.

Ok, I have vented and it is time to get back to important things like eliminating some excess line rake that everybody but me notices.

I will let you know if the Fart Whistle works, I just have to try it.

Ken





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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2019, 09:31:35 AM »
Did you talk to the judges after you seen your score sheet.   I have been there and talked to the judges after my flight.  I didn't get my engine warmed up enough before take off.  The plane was a little slow on take off even though it was one of the best I had ever done.  By the time I got ready for the start of the reverse wing over the engine was up to prime.   Flew a pattern that I thought was the best I had ever flown and really worked it.  Several people made comments about my great pattern they seen me fly.  When I got my score sheet it was a big let down.  So I don't get serious any more.  Just concentrate on having fun and lately just staying vertical.  By the way the judges said the pattern was too sluggish. D>K     
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2019, 11:24:49 AM »
Did you talk to the judges after you seen your score sheet.   I have been there and talked to the judges after my flight.  I didn't get my engine warmed up enough before take off.  The plane was a little slow on take off even though it was one of the best I had ever done.  By the time I got ready for the start of the reverse wing over the engine was up to prime.   Flew a pattern that I thought was the best I had ever flown and really worked it.  Several people made comments about my great pattern they seen me fly.  When I got my score sheet it was a big let down.  So I don't get serious any more.  Just concentrate on having fun and lately just staying vertical.  By the way the judges said the pattern was too sluggish. D>K     
Only talked to the Nats judge.  He had scored me with a low end expert score which is exactly what I flew.  He was supersized that the other judge gave me a score that would have barely placed in intermediate. 

Now to your experience, I think it is the same section of the rule book that covers not having a piped engine also covers sluggish.  No wait, it is only a guideline near the end of the Judges Guide under the heading "You are now a God - Get Even" >:D

I probably would have scored you higher for flying well with a bad engine run under that same "guideline".
 y1 

I am sort of taking the same path you did.  I can't get to out of town contests so my contest season is the 2-3 local ones we have.  I am going to just have fun since how I fly will have no impact on my score.  I really hope the "Fart Whistle" works.  It will be petty and childish and worth it.

Hey, thanks for listening.

ken

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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2019, 02:04:43 PM »
I probably would have scored you higher for flying well with a bad engine run under that same "guideline".

Neither is correct.  The contestant should be judged on the maneuvers done, whatever the speed.  (Well, if you're going 90 miles an hour I'm going to score you for what good I can see, not what mistakes I miss).  If you complete the pattern in time, it wasn't too "sluggish".  OTOH, if your shapes are off, whether because the plane was sluggish or because you were having a bad day, you should be marked down.

Now, after the event is over I might congratulate and/or criticize -- but that's different.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2019, 03:56:18 PM »
Neither is correct.  The contestant should be judged on the maneuvers done, whatever the speed.  (Well, if you're going 90 miles an hour I'm going to score you for what good I can see, not what mistakes I miss).  If you complete the pattern in time, it wasn't too "sluggish".  OTOH, if your shapes are off, whether because the plane was sluggish or because you were having a bad day, you should be marked down.

Now, after the event is over I might congratulate and/or criticize -- but that's different.
You missed the prior sentence:
No wait, it is only a guideline near the end of the Judges Guide under the heading "You are now a God - Get Even" >:D

That was not intended to be serious.  When I judge I only judge what I see.  Not how fast it was or what it sounded like or what color it was or who is flying it.

Ken
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2019, 04:16:14 PM »
Try not to make snotty comments when you judge. If the pilot is flying electric, they can hear you.
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2019, 04:58:06 PM »
Try not to make snotty comments when you judge. If the pilot is flying electric, they can hear you.
Since I was a Junior I always talked to myself all through the pattern.  When I went Electric I had stop doing it and for the first time in my life I left out a maneuver.  So I put the narrative back in leaving out the words that are spelled without letters (&^**&%&$)  Better now.  It is demoralizing when you hear "What the F*** was that" coming from upwind LL~

Ken
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Offline TDM

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2019, 06:43:37 PM »
I am pretty sure I get smashed by judges when I fly. I can see from sideline what others are flying too and in one particular case I am scored 15 points over the next contestant and we talked after the contest and he agreed that my flight was a heck of a lot better to just score only 15 point above his flight score. Frankly I am scratching my head off in amazement wondering what did I do so wrong to get a 30 on a maneuver while the other judge is scoring a 38. By the way a 30 scale 1-10 is a 6.66 basically and a 38 is a 9.33. So yes I am confused. I would love to talk and see where am I doing so wrong.
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2019, 09:11:16 PM »
I am pretty sure I get smashed by judges when I fly. I can see from sideline what others are flying too and in one particular case I am scored 15 points over the next contestant and we talked after the contest and he agreed that my flight was a heck of a lot better to just score only 15 point above his flight score. Frankly I am scratching my head off in amazement wondering what did I do so wrong to get a 30 on a maneuver while the other judge is scoring a 38. By the way a 30 scale 1-10 is a 6.66 basically and a 38 is a 9.33. So yes I am confused. I would love to talk and see where am I doing so wrong.
I don't think you will get smashed at the Nats.  In fact it would not surprise me to see an all electric finals in the near future.  I don't see many people going back once they have made the switch and gone through the learning curve.  Judges, especially the ones that don't fly, have to do the same.  It will get better.  I don't know about you but I get quite a few questions from intermediate and advanced fliers who are considering the change.  They see how little time I have to spend on preparation, the little tackle box that has everything i need in it and how solid a run I get every time.  But, when they see this sort of thing happen it can't help. Every time there is a quantum change in the technology we use there is resistance.  Why do you think they call it the "Dark Side"  I even go so far as to use Darth Vader as my pilot figure.  It will get better.
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Offline TDM

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2019, 07:42:56 AM »
Thanks Ken but I am not holding my breath. I am in double jeopardy here wit ha model that is out of this world technologically and electric on top of it.

I should do a Ghost Paint Darth Vader helmet on the wing. Maybe an Imperial destroyer theme in the paint job. I forgot of course the star wars soundtrack and the Tie Fighter sound track.

When you look at scores and you see 15 points between two flights that are night and day between them it kills your drive and I am puling out the BS sign. It also makes you think we need an automated scoring video based computer driven. This kind of bias is crap and must stop.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2019, 12:28:36 PM »
Thanks Ken but I am not holding my breath. I am in double jeopardy here wit ha model that is out of this world technologically and electric on top of it.

I should do a Ghost Paint Darth Vader helmet on the wing. Maybe an Imperial destroyer theme in the paint job. I forgot of course the star wars soundtrack and the Tie Fighter sound track.

When you look at scores and you see 15 points between two flights that are night and day between them it kills your drive and I am puling out the BS sign. It also makes you think we need an automated scoring video based computer driven. This kind of bias is crap and must stop.
I seriously do not think that they know the impact all of this has on us.  There is very little we can do other than vent every now and then (which is what I am doing) because the people that can do something about it don't see the problem and those that see the problem are powerless to fix it. The best flier I have ever known told me once that the only way to stop this is to just be so good that they have to give you the score.

Ken
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #15 on: Yesterday at 03:34:53 PM »
Fart Whistle came today.  I will flight test it Saturday.  I was hoping for a deep Merlin" sound but what it makes sounds more like that sick moan an overheating McCoy makes right before it locks up.

Ken
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Smoke Generator and Noise Maker
« Reply #16 on: Yesterday at 03:46:26 PM »
......and the Tie Fighter sound track
It sounds just like that!  Maybe I am on to something. LL~ LL~ LL~

Ken
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