News:


  • April 27, 2024, 02:12:03 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous  (Read 1302 times)

Offline David_Ruff

  • David Ruff
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 207
  • Retired Army
Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« on: October 26, 2023, 05:14:50 AM »
Thinking of getting back to CL.  Leaning toward electric.  How are the Brodak conversion kits and electric power packages? 
Wanting to power my Goldberg Shoestring Stunter and an RSM Humongous.
I remember that RSM had electric stuff, but when I go to his website, there is a message that he is not in business due to health issues. 
Just glad to be here

Offline Dennis Toth

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4228
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2023, 07:14:04 AM »
Dave,
For you first adventure into electric stunt the Brodak package will get you flying quickly. They were developed by Dennis Adamisin and is a solid package, would do the Shoestring first. For the Humongous you might want to explore the BadAss motors from Inov8tive (https://innov8tivedesigns.com/products/brushlessmotors/badass-airplane-motors.html) the 28 or 35 series and a more CL designed ESC (like Castle Creations Phoenix) and a more advanced timer.

The most important thing to spend your money on is the charger, get a high end one like those from Castle Creations. I like the ones that have both AC and DC power options. This will keep you out of trouble from over charging and damaging your packs. Good pack are from HobbyStar (https://www.rcjuice.com/lipo-batteries.html) and Thunder Power (https://www.thunderpowerrc.com/). The HobbyStar has some packs that fit in the short nose length of Ringmasters and Flitestreaks) and are very good price.

Best,   DennisT

Offline David_Ruff

  • David Ruff
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 207
  • Retired Army
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2023, 07:20:46 AM »
Dennis.  Thanks for the good info.  I used to have the RC electric equipment; including a good charger.  I sold or gave away most of it.  Dumb, I know.  Anyway, I will check the links.  The Shoestring is already built and has a glow engine.  I can  probably modify it to work.
Just glad to be here

Offline Brent Williams

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1265
    • Fancher Handles - Presented by Brent Williams
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2023, 10:14:50 AM »
Here's a cool electric Humongous built by Bob Welch.
Cobra 2820-12 970kv, 4s2800 lipo, 11x5.5 APC prop, Castle 50a ESC. 43oz.
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
https://stunthanger.com/smf/brent-williams'-fancher-handles-and-cl-parts/ted-fancher's-precision-pro-handle-kit-by-brent-williams-information/

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6126
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2023, 11:17:29 AM »
By all means do the Shoestring first.  A BadAss or Cobra 2820 will be more than enough power on a 4s Battery.  If you want to get feisty, use the BadAss on a 5 or 6s.  I think the BadAss 2820 and up will all go to 6s.  My choice would be a BA 2820 910 with a Castle Phoenix or Tallon ESC and a Huban FM-9 timer.  Both the motor and ESC will support the more expensive active timers but you simply do not need an active timer on Shoestring.  The Humongous, maybe if you are serious about OTS.  You might want a 2826 or a 3515 for it but only for nose weight or if you want to swing a larger than 11" prop.  I seriously don't think a Humongous needs an active timer but I don't have one so I will defer that question to someone that has one.

The telemetry box for the Huban is expensive so you have to consider how many timers it will be supporting.  The one for Igor's and the Fiorotti active timers is cheaper, but the timers are more expensive.

If you are good with soldering electronics, the Climb and Dive may be a good choice.  It looks like they are trying to duplicate the powers vested in an accelerometer equipped timer without the heavy cost.  Whatever you do, consider the next level.  If you are going to a PA capable plane after the Shoestring, start out with the equipment you will want to use when you get there.  The Huban gives you a reliable electric 4-2-4.  You will love it, but flying the properly setup active timer you will need for PA a completely different experience.   I went from IC to the Huban FM-9 and flew a total of four planes with them for 2 years.  When they were destroyed in a fire, I used the insurance to re-outfit with Fiorotti timers, BadAss motors and JettiSpin ESC's.  What I experienced was so much better than the Huban that after nearly 3 years I still have not gotten rid of all the 4-2-4 muscle memories.

Good luck - Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Dennis Toth

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4228
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2023, 01:27:56 PM »
Dave,
For the Shoestring conversion you can make a mount plate that fits between the mounts and is held in by L clips thorough the existing IC mounts and a bottom one through a plywood either that is the existing doubler or you could add one. Here are a couple of photos of mine on profile ships. They are front mounts, could do something similar for rear mounts.

Best,   DennisT

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6126
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2023, 03:50:16 PM »
Dave,
For the Shoestring conversion you can make a mount plate that fits between the mounts and is held in by L clips thorough the existing IC mounts and a bottom one through a plywood either that is the existing doubler or you could add one. Here are a couple of photos of mine on profile ships. They are front mounts, could do something similar for rear mounts.

Best,   DennisT
Dennis, is that a 4s Li-Ion battery?  Very clean setup.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline David_Ruff

  • David Ruff
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 207
  • Retired Army
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2023, 03:29:52 AM »
Dennis: Any chance you could provide a list of those components you show on your profile ship?
Just glad to be here

Offline Dennis Toth

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4228
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2023, 10:30:55 AM »
The setup in the photo is an older one (2010) just to show the way I converted the mounts. It is an AXI and old A123 pack. This was the second electric ship I built and I was concerned about Lipos as I didn't understand that the problems were from overcharging like they were nicads. The A123's were very safe but heavy. As I learned about the different packs and charging system I switch to Lipos.

The current power in the TutorII is a Hacker 30 10XL  900Kv, APCE-P 11 3/4x6, with a Castle Creations Phoenix 45 ESC, Ztron timer, pack is Thunder Power 25C, 4S 3400mah, 63' C to C, 0.015 SS cable lines.

I am a very lazy about the setup, I use fixed rpm mode (set all three sections to the same rpm ~9700) and use the time to set the 20sec delay motor start time and flight time.

Best,   DennisT

Offline Douglas Bykoff

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Ensign
  • **
  • Posts: 40
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2023, 08:05:38 PM »
When I got into electric models I was looking for good equipment that was cheap. Nothing against Cobra and Badass engines, Castle and Jetti ESCs and active timer. O just think they're expensive for entry-level models.

I'm using a Hobbyking 3536 (2820) SK3 motor in my electric Flitestreak, which is a good performance motor for a reasonable price.
For the ESC I was using a 40A YEP/ICE which has good features such as soft start, braking, freeweling and Governor  with good results for sport models.

I recently bought 2 40A ZMR ESCs with BLHELI firmware with Governor high, P-gain, I-gain, soft  start, break for 14 dollars is a really bargain.

If a 14 dollar ESC can replace a 70 dollar one, certainly not, but it could become a good alternative for sport planes.

Offline Mark wood

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 853
  • I'm here purely for the fun of it.
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2023, 09:16:41 AM »
I have and have used most all of the ESCs. My go to are the ZTW Beatless series. I used them with both the Hubin and active timers including timers of my own creation and they work as good as ESCs costing several times The price of admission. the real key is to just get started with something easy and inexpensive. I don't like ESC's that take sophisticated programming boxes in general, especially for beginners. The ZTW has a very simple plug in programming card. For the guys I have mentored, this has been The Way..

KISS
Life is good AMA 1488
Why do we fly? We are practicing, you might say, what it means to be alive...  -Richard Bach
“Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.” – Richard P. Feynman

Offline Dennis Toth

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 4228
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2023, 11:59:52 AM »
Mark,
What is a good source for the ZTW Beatless ESC's? What model of theirs would work for CL and allow a brake at shut down?

Best,   DennisT

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6126
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2023, 12:10:29 PM »
... and they work as good as ESCs costing several times The price of admission.
Mark, is the ZTW fast enough for pattern flying?  IMHO, to be effective the boost in a corner has to come while you are in the corner and as early in the corner as possible.  Having it come after you have exited the corner makes it very difficult to make flat flats.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Mark wood

  • 22 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 853
  • I'm here purely for the fun of it.
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2023, 02:04:04 PM »
Mark, is the ZTW fast enough for pattern flying?  IMHO, to be effective the boost in a corner has to come while you are in the corner and as early in the corner as possible.  Having it come after you have exited the corner makes it very difficult to make flat flats.

Ken

The short answer I think is yes although I haven't bolted the ZTW up to a Fiorroti and flown as of yet, only bench testing. The ZTW has been the ESC I have been testing on the maneuvering / attitude gain controller "timer" and it performs well.  The real issues with the lag is the filtering of the attitude signal whether it be gyro or accelerometer derived. One on my timers doesn't use the gyro or accelerometers at all and has near perfect response. It takes 150 ms or so for the filter to begin the input and another 20-50 ms for the motor to begin winding up. I bypass that entirely. I'm just now beginning the next phase of development of that control, "timer".  I have only run the Fiorotti other than my own and the Hubins. Despite the conventional wisdom, I don't find much lag in the ESC response but I also haven't instrumented that portion of the loop. Using an anticipation gain to star the motor accelerating before the load begins is the only way to eliminate the lag. Go to my YouTube channel to see an example. Also you can read about how I've developed the logic elsewhere on here. It's getting cold here so I don't expect to do many videos but there will some effort.

Dennis

We're just now beginning to fly with the gen 2 ZTW ESCs which are black and I don't have any data to report. I personally don't have one. Yes, they have a brake function and governor mode aka helicopter mode. The blue ones, gen 1, are becoming scarce but can be found on Amazon. I just got a 40 amp one for the test model for $21. The cobra ESCs are rebranded ZTWs and work also well and use the same programming card. My ideal endgame is a timer, control, esc in a single package. With the remote start stop trim feature. That may be a bit too far but you never know until you go for it.

Update: The normal source of ZTW ESC's is Altitude Hobbies
« Last Edit: October 31, 2023, 02:34:59 PM by Mark wood »
Life is good AMA 1488
Why do we fly? We are practicing, you might say, what it means to be alive...  -Richard Bach
“Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that’s not why we do it.” – Richard P. Feynman

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6126
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2023, 04:43:15 PM »
My ideal endgame is a timer, control, esc in a single package. With the remote start stop trim feature. That may be a bit too far but you never know until you go for it.

Update: The normal source of ZTW ESC's is Altitude Hobbies
That is a goal worth perusing.  I can see a lot of benefit to having all three in one package.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Dennis Pedersen

  • ACE
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 52
Re: Shoestring Stunter and Humongous
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2023, 10:15:25 PM »
 Just for your info, ZTW builds the esc's for BadAss. I use my BadAss program box on both ZTW and BadAss esc's. I just find Innov8tive so great to deal with that they get my business with there BadAss and Cobra lines.

When BadAss Motors were designed, it was obvious that a top-notch speed controller would be needed to complete the power system package.  To this end, Innov8tive Designs partnered with ZTW, a company well known for producing high-quality products, to manufacture the BadAss Speed Controllers.  These Speed Controllers are made to our exact specifications to work flawlessly with BadAss Brushless motors and most other popular brands of brushless RC motors.  Built from the highest quality components, and using the latest manufacturing processes, these speed controllers are designed to give years of reliable, trouble-free performance.

https://innov8tivedesigns.com/products/speedcontrollersandbecs/badass-speed-controllers/badass-rebel-escs.html
Dennis Pedersen
Alberta Canada


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here