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Author Topic: Russian ready made models  (Read 7533 times)

Offline paul winter

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Russian ready made models
« on: September 18, 2013, 03:11:49 AM »
hi all

he is the million dollar question.......

Are the Yetsenko models really worth the money, i was in France last week end and there was 13 out of 21 models Sharks and Yaks etc

i build great models and they fly well but no where near the quality of the Shark

answers please from people who own them ............

Offline Russell Bond

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2013, 03:24:33 AM »
Gee, you'll be in trouble.
They are Ukrainian, not Russian.  n1

I have an old Classic that I converted to electric.
I think they are a little over priced, especially when they don't even have adjustable wingtip weight and leadouts.
Bandolero

Offline linheart smith

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2013, 06:26:32 AM »
Hi Paul,

I flew a Electric powered Shark last summer and enjoyed it very much. 
This summer I flew a scratch built profile electric Cavalier and had as much fun.

How much time does it take you to build a model?  Sparky can build one in a month.  Others take three years. Average is something in between.

2600 euros equals how much of my/your time. 

Are they worth it?  Only the buyer can decide.

Linheart

 
linheart

Offline BillLee

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2013, 07:41:44 AM »
Gee, you'll be in trouble.
They are Ukrainian, not Russian.  n1

I have an old Classic that I converted to electric.
I think they are a little over priced, especially when they don't even have adjustable wingtip weight and leadouts.

Russell, do you have a Shark? Neither do I.

Have you flown one? Neither have I.

But a well-known former U.S. champion who HAS flown one said to me "They don't need adjustments since they are perfect." (or words to that effect).

Expensive? Yes. Overpriced? Probably not.
Bill Lee
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Offline Russell Bond

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2013, 08:44:22 AM »
Well I know the problems some people have had here in Australia, especially with the early .76 motors.
Bandolero

Offline Jeff Traxler

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 10:34:14 AM »
Russel,I don't think he is going to use an IC powerplant.Could be why he asked in All Amped Up.




Paul,I watched Orestes fly a ton at the team trials and his looked as if it were on rails.Not just in level flight,square corners,intersections you name it.It just kept groovin'  Trax
If you wanna sing the blues(Fly Stunt) you gotta pay your dues and "I know it don't come easy"

Offline Howard Rush

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2013, 07:48:26 PM »
I flew one.  It flies well, and it fits in a shoebox.  I prefer my Impact, but we'll see whether I can make an Impact that fits in a shoebox.   
The Jive Combat Team
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Offline phil c

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2013, 08:53:50 PM »
You can do it Howard!  Just get some very LARGE shoes.  Or perhaps make the Impact wing in two or three pieces and bolt it on like the Shark.

Phil C
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Offline Peter Anglberger

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2013, 11:18:22 PM »
I own two Yatsenko models, a Classic, the one with the tall bubble canopy and a New Classic which is similar but has a turtle deck style fuselage and is the nicest looking of all the Yatsenko variants in my opinion. The Classic and New Classic are designed by Yuri Yatsenko and the Shark is by Andrei. I have never flown the Shark but my understanding it's superior in windy or turbulent conditions.

The answer to Paul's question is complex. Are they worth the money, I would say yes but with caveats. I am being totally honest about MY experience with the Yatsenko models I own.

The reason they are worth the money are:
1. Obviously they fly well, otherwise so many would not have been sold. My guess is the total no. in Europe would be in the order of 3 figures.There are at least a dozen in sparsely populated  Australia.
2. They are easily transported and they break down into a beautifully made wooden case supplied with the model and included in the price. This makes them ideal for air travel.
    It cost me nothing in excess baggage fees to get my model to the 2012 World Champs. It cost my team mate,  Russell Bond well into 4 figures to transport his two piece model to and from  Bulgaria.
3. The build quality and finish are first class. However I would guess not in the same class as top US models built to the BOM rule, ie Nats front rowers.
4. For me to build an equivalent model and get it to fly as well would take up an enormous amount of my free time, which is very limited. I built a nicely finished Vector 40 from the Brodak kit
     a few years back and recorded every second I spent on it form opening the box to it being ready for it's test flight and it was over 400 hours. I know I'm a slow builder because I over finesse everything but that is how I am hard wired. How much is my time worth, I reckon more than the $10 per hour if you amortize 400 plus hours versus the approx $4000 it cost to buy each model and have it  shipped across the world.

The caveats are;
1. They are very light, my Retro 76 powered models weigh in at 55 and 57 ounces. These are 700 sq in models. They must be assembled and taken apart with great care.A ham fist launcher can easily cause damage if gripped too hard  or in the wrong spot. I don't ask others to carry my models to avoid the risk of damage. They must be handled with care and finesse and are not for the inexperienced. The models come with not one single word of instruction, no assembly instructions,no line length, no fuel mix advice no motor setting hints; nothing, nyet, nichts, nada!
2. They are not trimmed to fly perfectly out of the box. I had to change the control ratios from as supplied to suit my personal preferences. It was not a big deal but everyone is different.
3. The Retro 76 motors ar not user friendly as supplied. I had to experiment a lot with venturi size to get a good 4-2-4 run, which is how they are designed to operate. I had a lot of trouble with carbon build up due to the stock very restrictive exhaust system. Only one oil will work IMHO and that is Motul Micro 2t. It took me a long time to realise this. My conclusion was the models would be much much better if fitted with a PA motor. I am still not entirely happy with the way the Retro 76 runs. I am converting my New Classic to electric power.
4. Whilst we fly F2B her and have no BOM rule to adhere to in Australia it has strong adherents and  am actually one of them. You will not get anywhere the amount of satisfaction owning one of these versus  a model that you have built yourself to equivalent standard.
5 Lastly if you sustain major damage, to be repaired effectively the model or at least part of it has to go back to the manufacturer, and this takes time and costs more money.

Paul, I have not seen your models first hand but what I have seen on the 'net' you are a first class builder and finisher. You will not gain much from purchasing one in my opinion. Once you have a decent model you need to practice the pattern effectively with a good coach / spotter, which is what is holding me back.

Regards, Peter

Offline Noel Corney

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2013, 11:34:38 PM »
Peter ,Move to Brisbane and I will put you on my coaching list. Regards  , Noel.

Offline Peter Anglberger

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2013, 12:23:28 AM »
Hi Noel, nice to hear from you. It's tempting, but GM Holden is still paying the bills for the moment. If that changes I may need to become mobile to find work and a move your way
would not be out of the question.

Cheers,
         Peter

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2013, 12:56:34 AM »
Paul, a simple way to answer your question is for you to find someone that will let you fly one of the Yatsenko models. I have only flown the Classic and the Shark. The Shark I flew also had the Metkemiejer engine in it, and it flew better than the Classics that I had flown before. Like others have said.......it grooves, and flies so accurately. So, see if you can fly a Shark and compare it to your best existing model. If it flies no better, then why bother with paying that sort of fee??

The Yatsenko stunters have a proven track record and if you take what Peter Angleberger (Hi Peter!) said in his comprehensive appraisal, into consideration, then Yuri and Andreii's models are well worth the bucks. Our South African currency is rotten against most others right now, otherwise I would have already ordered myself the Yak 55, even if the Shark flies better!

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has flown the newer Shark to see if it flies as well as the original one. What about Yuri's new Gee Bee R-3?? Barry Robinson spoke to Yuri about it and he said that this is the best flying stunter he has made so far, and it's also very light as well.

Keith R
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Offline paul winter

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2013, 05:08:22 AM »
hi Keith
the Gee bee is the prettist of them all and looks the best in the air

was it Lauri's shark with the metkemiejer in ,i saw it and him in france it flys well
paul

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2013, 07:03:25 AM »
Hi Paul,

No.........it was the "Man" himself.....Rob Metkemeijer's Shark that I flew with his prototype .77 engine. He came out to our Nats a few years ago and let me fly the Shark afterwards. It just gave me a lot of confidence, and was the best stunter I had ever flown.........until Igor let me fly his Max Bee in Bulgaria last year. The Shark seemed to groove as well as the Max Bee, but Igor's model was just easier to fly the way that it was set up. As I said though, I would still love to own that Yak with the .76 Yuri engine in it!

Keith R
Keith R

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2013, 10:17:18 AM »
You can do it Howard!  Just get some very LARGE shoes.  Or perhaps make the Impact wing in two or three pieces and bolt it on like the Shark.

Phil C

You mean like clown shoes? LL~

Regards,
  Dean P.
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Offline MarcusCordeiro

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2013, 04:59:06 PM »
There are a few Yatsenkos around here.
My fellow clubmember Cleber won't fly his unless I'm there to launch for him for the "cracking" problem.
And will you really go for a 5' bottom flying a very expensive ship like that?
My friend and current Brazilian Champion Rogério Alves got himself one.
Not so happy with the engine though...

Here's a vídeo of him flying his a few weeks ago. He'd had just a little practice with the ship and said it was being kind of hard to get used to ship since he couldn't change anything...



Marcus
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2013, 11:00:24 AM »
Why do you need adjustment features when the plane is supposed to be perfect out of the mold/box??? LL~ LL~ LL~
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2013, 04:40:13 AM »
Paul, those models ARE expensive if you compare with chinese R/C ARFs, but what you get is certainly not chinese R/C ARFs  >:D ... I do not think that you can build it cheaper in that quality if you count your working time.

I will never buy that model, because I have model which suits me much better, but if you want take apart model, and you want it cheap in meaning that you do not want to spend time with debugging of take aprat hardware, learn how to make molds and learn making composites, that model is certainly cheaper, because they already did it and they already learned it  VD~

regarding "trimability" .. well that is biggest trouble of that model, people who use it simply adopted its flying style as it is. I would not, I need to trimm model regarding conditions, so nothing for me, but if you can tune up to that model, it can have one advantage ... that next model which you buy will fly the same way :- )))))))))))))))

Offline roy cherry

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2013, 01:52:24 PM »
hi paul you are well capable of making one for your self you know i will help you if you if asked but if you do try to take your time on it and it will fly better   as for the model you were flying yesterday at luton we must fly it together and i will show you how to trim it out at least to the std of my big strega as it is now you will never over come the fear of flying in bad air  roy cherry

Offline jose modesto

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2013, 05:51:16 PM »
Roy are you suggesting that Paul create the molds and build the Yatsenko model.
Very difficult to do. If you had a Shark you could possibly reverse engineer the model.
The undertaking is a two year process.
Now if you are just going to build a possible look alike model yes that can be accomplished.
The control system is unique to their models.
I own four Yatsenko models 3 Sharks and new classic
Two former world and NATS champions who watched Orestes fly at our team trials were blown away by the performance of the model in Orestes hands.
Hey Paul I'm scheduled to be in London Oct 8th to 12th will reach out to you hope to get together.
The Yatsenko models are first class I will post some photos. The Yatsenkos have produced these models for Electric power.
Jose Modesto

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2013, 12:59:01 AM »
In the moment when you make the mold for such model, you stop the development ... it will work for some time but one day you will see your models are backward and you missed the train  >:D

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2013, 01:12:50 AM »
Every model I ever flew could fit in a shoe box....and many did when I was finished for the day....

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2013, 01:17:08 AM »
 VD~


Offline Doug Moon

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2013, 06:24:49 AM »
Doug Moon
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Offline roy cherry

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2013, 09:50:33 AM »
hi jose no i wasent sugesting that paul makes molds just that if he wanted i would help him build a model from panes or a kit from as orestes has  if you are coming to london next week you are most welcome to visit with us paul lives 40 minits from me and i live 5 mins from london heath row  get me on 02088441727 cheers for now roy cherry

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2013, 11:37:17 AM »
I've flown a Yatsenko model and find it that it flies well. That said, I found nothing spectacular about the way it flies. It flies just like any modern well trimmed model. Here's what I think are the benefits to owning one:

1) Instant gratification. You get a model that it built well and painted to your specification.
2) Trimmmed. The models are fairly well trimmed out of the box. The model save many hours of trimming.
3) Compactness. The models fit into a box and are very suitable for airline transportation.


Another "benefit" only applies to those who have not perfected their trimming skills. you will be blown away with the way the model flies but not because it's a Yatsenko model but rather because you are flying a properly trimmed ship.


Offline paul winter

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2013, 12:17:57 PM »
hi Jose
come and see me
call  call 07831 410 418
paul

Offline jose modesto

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2013, 01:36:13 PM »
Paul and a Roy.It  would be my pleasure to visit with you guys.
Purpose of visit  is to meet my new granddaughter. My trip should have me in London the 8th Oct.
Now my challenge.I have been fighting back issues since first week of July.last Tuesday my recovery was going well, wenesday it all went downhill.  Our models don't fly well as canards going backwards. The story is funny and tragic.
My trip is day to day hope Doc let's me fly
Jose Modesto   

Offline jose modesto

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2013, 07:41:29 AM »
just to add information on whats available.
ALL MODELS ARE NOT INSTANT GRATIFICATION. you can purchase KITS in various construction options.
see photos
photo#1 raw balsa New Classic
photo#2and #3 yak kit

Offline jose modesto

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2013, 07:49:37 AM »
added photos
#1 rawBalsa Shark Kit
#3 New classicKit.
#4 finished Shark
The more work lower price.
Jose Modesto

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2013, 10:17:40 AM »
Jose,
Long time no see. Would love to talk. Please call me. 469***450****7093

Tom N
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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2013, 11:19:23 AM »
added photos
#1 rawBalsa Shark Kit
#3 New classicKit.
#4 finished Shark
The more work lower price.
Jose Modesto

I could see if all the parts came in this state unfinished it would qualify as a kit in my book. But the wings just needing bolted on is questionable. The main problem I have with this set up is you cant tell the difference from a kit and a pre built plane.


I do also see Orestes point of view. We need a good well written BOM or just do away with it and allow buy and fly. I hope the buy and fly option does not come to pass in my life time. Another option is to revamp the appearance point rules and a sliding scale put in play. That would appease some.
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2013, 10:45:00 AM »
You can do it Howard!  Just get some very LARGE shoes.  Or perhaps make the Impact wing in two or three pieces and bolt it on like the Shark.

Phil C

perhaps the shoe box from his clown suit would be suitable?  H^^
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Re: Russian ready made models
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2017, 09:26:56 PM »
Probly have the mafia on our tail , for this .
i didnt draw it .

For less well heeled individuals , is obtainable , with patiance . If its draw right .  :-\



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