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Author Topic: REvolutions  (Read 15336 times)

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #150 on: July 16, 2018, 01:45:04 PM »
Dose anyone know what appearance points the REvolution received?   :)!

I was told 15
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Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #151 on: July 18, 2018, 10:34:43 AM »
My initial set up is
1.5oz tip weight
out thrust 1 degree I think.
.015 68 feet handle to center line.
710 sq in wing area
58oz RTF
Motor is Joker 4250 510KV
Igor timer
TP 2800mAh 6S
flight time 5 min 30 sec
5.4-5.5s lap time
Back in the pack 1350-1405mAh
I set the bellcrank with little Expo in both flaps and elevator.

I do not have any temperature issues at all. The average amp draw per flight is 15.27A during the flight. Hardly any stress on the electric system. The motor is not even breaking a sweat.

I would like to try more Expo and a wider handle. That will maintain my flying stile make the corner harder and maintain predictable soft center for smooth rounds. I bought a 4250 820KV I want to try on 4S with an instant weight savings of 4.2oz. For the 4S i have to move the battery forward 3in. I also have something I want to try on 5S configuration.
Another thing I am considering is to make a new nose for 4S setup. The idea is to fly 6S in the wind and 4S in nice weather.

I want a new aft fuselage section with the landing gear in the right place. That will enable me to go to a 13in prop. Later when I settle on a setup I will consider making a Carbon prop.

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Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Vincent Judd

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #152 on: July 19, 2018, 06:54:14 AM »
Congratulations and job well done Traian.  I just went back and checked, you started this thread in September of last year and now, 10 months later you have a finished airplane that looks really nice and obviously flies very well also.  5th in advanced at the Nats with a relatively new airplane, you should be thrilled with that result.  All that hard work and time invested really paid off.  You designed it, you manufactured everything, even designing and hand machining some of the assemblies that you used, you should be very proud.   I have no idea where you found the time to do everything, my hat's off to you.

Continued good luck as you proceed down this path.

Vince

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #153 on: July 19, 2018, 11:09:49 AM »
Traian, that is a really nice model. Very cool and spectacular workmanship.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #154 on: July 19, 2018, 01:27:52 PM »
Traian,  this has been some project and I wonder if given a little more time results might have placed you higher.   Now will you start version number 2 and keep trimming on this great looking plane? H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #155 on: July 19, 2018, 03:21:20 PM »
Yes I was matching the average score of the Advanced winner. I was also having my highest personal score in a competition, and this was at the NATS where judges are brutal on the scores. So yes considering I had about 16 patterns on the plane at the time you can say i needed a little more time on the handle.
Starting #2 in a week with new layout on the fuselage. Version 2 I am not sure I want to do this again anytime soon. I love this plane in the air as is.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #156 on: July 20, 2018, 09:59:07 AM »
Hey, look at Dave F. still winning with a plane that has flown several NATS.   Nothing wrong with flying the same plane several years unless you wear it out and keep improving. D>K
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Offline Larry Wong

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #157 on: July 20, 2018, 01:27:01 PM »
I'm Not sure but I think it's the same design, but different plane! ???  different paint jobs!
Larry

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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #158 on: July 23, 2018, 01:34:09 PM »
The airplane is beautiful!! Been following along since the beginning, and the lines of it are awesome! I'd love to get a pull on this airplane. Its so cool looking!
Matt Colan

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #159 on: July 23, 2018, 06:55:08 PM »
If I do that, you will not want to give it back, then I will have to fight you for it.  :)
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #160 on: July 23, 2018, 07:54:40 PM »
Here is my flight report.
First of all this is with only maybe 20 flights on the plane.
Triming was basically non existent. I added a little thrust offset and tip weight 1.5oz. Also I tweaked the flaps a tine bit. Because it is so stiff the flight was very predictable and it immediately showed when it did not like something, or if something was slightly off. In one flight the flaps screw was loose a little and it tweaked the flaps position in flight. I knew that instantly. We found the problem after that, tighten the screw a little, and we where back in business. Paul saw it and I confirmed the bug at the hotel. Yes I have flats on the rods, what happens if the rods are not perpendicular to the set screw when you tighten it it will stay there for a while and of course during the official flight it will move a couple of degrees enough to give you grief. This was about the extent of issues we had so far.
Per design I moved the stab up and added the dihedral to put it in clean air. This decision came after a discussion I had with Windy Urtnowsky. It was a perfect decision because the model tracks and locks is effortless.
I also moved the stab backwards to get more moment to turn the corner. Moment (aka Torque) is defined as distance from CG multiplied by force. For same force applied by the elevator the further back you apply it, it has more moment (torque) to turn the plane (change the AOA). I have to say, that box also received a check mark, because this bird turns so tight I have not found the edge yet. Yes I tried to find it.
Control system that is custom with a little Expo in both flaps and elevator combine that with the tracking ability make the round maneuvers a breeze. Put a check mark in that box too.
Because the build construction is composite and composite is over 400 times stronger than balsa (over 800 times if you compare ultimate tensile strength of carbon to ultimate tensile strength of balsa) there is no flex in the air frame anywhere so no funny business like: of one flaps flexing more than the other one, or wing torsion or flexing up and down during flight, there is none of that bull crap to deal with. Consequently I am flying very comfortable at 5.4-5.5s lap time. . The line tension is lighter because the model is relatively light but is everywhere, regardless how hard I hammer the corners, and after I realized that I had to change things in my flying and get rid of bad habits formed from the previous models.
This is with a crude setup. We have not even started to tap in the potential of this plane to this day and only God knows where the edge is. Well I want to know it too. My previous bird was an SV-12 model with a PA60 tuned pipe in it, and if I compare to that is like moving from a BMW M5 to a Bugatti Veyron. The difference is staggering. I just cant get enough of this bird.
It may sound bias but so far I did not hide anything. So take it with a grain of salt. My personal impression is that this is next generation model a leap over anything at very least I have done before.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #161 on: July 23, 2018, 09:02:49 PM »
Can I buy one on Amazon?
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Offline Steve Berry

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #162 on: July 24, 2018, 10:56:03 AM »
Can I buy one on Amazon?

And please make it available through Amazon Prime so I can get free 2-day shipping  ;D ;D ;D

Awesome plane, btw. Been following since the beginning. Your c/l kung fu is strong.

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #163 on: August 21, 2018, 07:06:32 AM »
Nothing much new here. I discovered Paul Walker articles on trimming and I am studying them now. Started to get more Amp draw than I had at the NATS but I think it is because i fly on grass and it is not exactly short grass, perhaps the motor works hard to get the model in the air.
I did CAD analysis of the control system and found out that some things where opposite what I was thinking as cause and effect. I was investigating the response of the arm (opposite the bellcrank) based on same belcrank deflection but varying bearing positions. Initially I though that I will go Logarithmic if I get the bearing close to the arm and more expo if the bearing is close to the bellcrank, the fact is that there is only one setting in my system and that is Expo, and the closer the bearing is to the the bellcrank the less Expo I have, and the closer the bearing is to the arm the more Expo I have.
Right now I have very nice response in flight the model is Soft in the center and quick in the corner easy to fly. I will have to make a angle gauge to be able to read the current handle feel response which I like. I would like to soften the center a little more and speed up the ends. That is 30min of work in the shop with one Allen wrench. Set up work is still in the beginning. I need more good weather more good advice and more time.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #164 on: August 28, 2018, 12:40:18 PM »
Ok gang I have a video of a flight that took place after the NATS. This is my buddy Mark at the center his flight number 4 on REvolutions so he is still getting used to it.

Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #165 on: August 28, 2018, 01:41:10 PM »
Ok gang I have a video of a flight that took place after the NATS. This is my buddy Mark at the center his flight number 4 on REvolutions so he is still getting used to it.
Impressive.  Aside from some hunting inverted I saw no bad stuff from the plane.  It looks like it is capable of much tighter corners (but we won't go there right now).  You may have built what we all dream of - a plane that exceeds the capabilities of the pilot!

Ken
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Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #166 on: August 28, 2018, 02:46:32 PM »
Ken about the hunting, actually Mark was messing with the handle strap and yes it is capable of much tighter corners. Mark was babying the plane a bit. I have some kinks in the lines and after the loops they stick a little. I flew the plane inverted without lines twisted and it is just fine. I am also found that I have a little positive AOA on the inboard wing which is being fixed right now. It will get better. The flight program is still in it's infancy so there is more to come.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Online Howard Rush

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #167 on: August 29, 2018, 10:31:58 PM »
The airplane is beautiful!! Been following along since the beginning, and the lines of it are awesome! I'd love to get a pull on this airplane. Its so cool looking!

The inside is even cooler looking than the outside. 
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Making combat and stunt great again

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #168 on: September 14, 2018, 08:05:57 AM »
Random thoughts

Right now I am using about 1400 mAh on a 6S. The average Amps during flight is about 15-16A (the 66A ESC probably is not even breaking a sweat. That works perfect but it look like a 4S 2625mAH (per math) would get the job done just fine but since that is not really existing a 2800mAh 4S (2100 per flight @ 75%) will save me some 4oz off the plane. I just have to move it forward 3-4in to maintain overall balance.  To achieve that I have on hand a new motor which is rate 820KV and also rated 4S. the power is slightly less a drop from 1150W to 1040W which is still plenty.
The question is how much more heat will this system will produce. The dilema is that with the extra heat means waisted energy and I wonder if this might push the 4S system past the 75%. I lke the idea of a 54oz model.

There is also the idea open to go on 5S with a 2200mAh battery and aproximately same 75% but the problem is that the battery doesn't exist. At least TP is not making it. I can hack something up at around 275g but at that point I might as well go with a 2800 5s TP.

So the way I see it I will make a new nose built for a 4S system and try it. 
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #169 on: October 14, 2018, 09:38:20 PM »
I am done with the NATS
Finished 5th with 1032 total score. Best flight at NATS was 536 my personal best as a matter of fact. This was mabe #15 patterns on the model. And we oly managed a crude setup at best. Battery usage is about  1350-1405mAh.
Weight is 58oz now with heavier power components and heavier tail.
Because low power consumption the door is open for a 4S 2800 witch will instantly shave 4.1oz lighter tails will open the door to a 52oz model.
It is all I have for now.

TDM,
Nicely done and what a great looking model.  Congrats on finishing 5th in Advance while flying a model with very little time on it.   Itís not easy to place that high in Advance because the pilots you are flying against are close to becoming experts already.  If you look at the Advanced Trophy you will notice the names of some very good pilots and my friends (We all fought hard battles).

Mike Pratt (a.k.a. Mikey)

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #170 on: October 17, 2018, 06:41:09 AM »
Thanks Mikey
Some updates here worth noticing.
Flight:
I think I have worked out the slight hunting issue, it came from a rather stiffer hinge that also created some flight trimming (ghost problems). So I cleared the hinge from the epoxy and now it is free and smooth so the problem is gone. No hunting anymore.
I played with the control system to customize it to my preference, which is a soft center for easy to fly loops and flats and also I want that explosive corner this model is more than capable of achieving.

Development:
#2 is flying now. It tips the scale at 53oz with a more forward CG compared #1. So we might go back to the AXI and have a 51+oz model (AXI is some 40g lighter motor). Yes those weights are RTF with battery on board 6S2800 TP. #2 has a much lighter aft portion of the fuselage build with a much smoother outer surface that doesn't require filling and putty to fill in the grain. Also we have a lighter layout for the aft fuselage. It was 186g out of the mold compared with the 210g, add to that the fact that we have much less finishing to do we are in much better shape weight wise. That being said #1 even at a heavier weight is still a solid  performer. If we a really fanatic we can have even more weight savings in the future plus more increase in stiffness but as is it is unbelievable so we are good for now.

More testing will come over the winter. After the next contest I will change the position of the landing gear to be able to accommodate larger props. After that I am trying the smaller batteries. That can potentially save another ounce or more.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #171 on: October 30, 2018, 04:47:58 AM »
Out to practice.
I had 4 unused batteries from after the contest so I pulled over on my way home to practice a little. I am trying to videotape the flights to see what I do right or wrong and It seems that the first thing I need to learn is to place the camera in the right place. Oh yes and I learned that the pilot needs more work too.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 05:58:22 AM by TDM »
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #172 on: October 30, 2018, 06:02:01 AM »
Out to practice.
I had 4 unused batteries from after the contest so I pulled over on my way home to practice a little. I am trying to videotape the flights to see what I do right or wrong and It seems that the first thing I need to learn is to place the camera in the right place. Oh yes and I learned that the pilot needs more work too.

LL~ LL~ LL~  We used to let the wind tell us where to fly, now it is the camera!  I resemble that comment.
"and I learned that the pilot needs more work too."  The camera will not lie to you. n1  Sometimes I wish mine would!  I love the way your design locks coming out of a corner and seem to rotate on the C/G in the rounds and forward of it in the corners.   Best of both worlds.

Ken

Ken
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 06:22:04 AM by Ken Culbertson »
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Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #173 on: October 30, 2018, 12:16:30 PM »
I am still transitioning from flying style from the previous model to this one. And I am still getting used to the rate of turn on this one. It corners so easy and fast I have to retrain my reflexes and get used to going much deeper before I enter the corner.For sure I have more corner reserve to be gained. What i am not so sure of is how can I keep track of the model at that rate of turn. I was watching the triangle and the first two corners are tight and crisp and the third one softer so I have to go a little deeper in to that one.  Trimming is still work in progress and I am constantly trying to improve the performance. I will try to up the flaps travel a little to gain more lift.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #174 on: October 30, 2018, 12:45:16 PM »
I am still transitioning from flying style from the previous model to this one. And I am still getting used to the rate of turn on this one. It corners so easy and fast I have to retrain my reflexes and get used to going much deeper before I enter the corner.For sure I have more corner reserve to be gained. What i am not so sure of is how can I keep track of the model at that rate of turn. I was watching the triangle and the first two corners are tight and crisp and the third one softer so I have to go a little deeper in to that one.  Trimming is still work in progress and I am constantly trying to improve the performance. I will try to up the flaps travel a little to gain more lift.
I am not sure that human reflexes, certainly at my age, are up to much more than a 10' corner.  I know mine are comfortable at around 12' but I don't have what you have.  I am also pretty sure that the human eye will have a problem telling them apart, assuming the judges are human.  IMHO it is more those -0- bubble flats that rake in the points.

Ken
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Offline Lauri Malila

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #175 on: October 31, 2018, 10:34:34 AM »
I am not sure that human reflexes, certainly at my age, are up to much more than a 10' corner.  I know mine are comfortable at around 12' but I don't have what you have.  I am also pretty sure that the human eye will have a problem telling them apart, assuming the judges are human.  IMHO it is more those -0- bubble flats that rake in the points.

Ken

How about things like badminton, pingpong etc. Or even FAI combat? Or playing some instrument? Human eye/reflexes/coordination is much better than what we use in stunt. L

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #176 on: October 31, 2018, 10:42:14 AM »
TDM,

Nicely done.

Can't loose sight of the fact your model is the first prototype.

Astonishing, by itself, just for that reason.

Could be an excellent contender just as it is.

A while back I did say, "YOU NAILED IT!!, with the design and engineering.

You'll be watched closely.

A good thing.

A very good thing.

Charles
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"No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."

Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten.

I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.

"Ya gotta love it when a plane comes together."

Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."

"Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #177 on: October 31, 2018, 05:39:44 PM »
How about things like badminton, pingpong etc. Or even FAI combat? Or playing some instrument? Human eye/reflexes/coordination is much better than what we use in stunt. L
To do a 10' corner at a normal flying speed, you need to consciously give two exact control inputs in less than .15 SECONDS.  That is 1/2 of the time it takes you to blink.

I am not saying you can't do it, I am saying that it is nearly impossible to tell which is which from 140' away.  A 10' corner is a whole lot tighter than you think it is.

I have played sports where hand/eye is critical and I think we are close to the limits.  Some more than others!
Ken
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 07:42:28 PM by Ken Culbertson »
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Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #178 on: January 28, 2019, 07:35:12 AM »
Little update

I went flying yesterday. I was working on going very hard on turns and this bird is cornering like crazy and for me is a completely new experience. In the next flying practices I will try to set the response on the handle.  I can wail on the model so much more than anything else I have ever flown before to the point that a change in flying stile is a necessity. 
I had so much fun with it over the weekend. It is amazing in the air no question about it. I need a little more handle spacing and I need to soften the down side a little to even the response. In the air I can go as hard as I can and there is no stall very little slowing down and it just drives to the next corner effortlessly even on the top of the hourglass. What a beast it is in the air.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Motorman

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #179 on: March 14, 2019, 07:34:02 PM »
How are those aluminum ball links holding up?


Thanks,
Motorman 8)
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #180 on: March 21, 2019, 04:01:52 PM »
So far so good no failures. I think I know why people have an issue with these types of ball links. They install them incorrectly. If you install them in one direction they can slip out and fail. However if you install then the opposite way it is impossible for them to come out even if the pressed in stuff comes off. So be mindful about how you install them. The color anodized part of the links has to be against the horn. I bet all the failure people are complaining about is because they mounted them in reverse. By the way these are built for cars that take a beating and not the light use we subject them for our purposes.
Hope it helps.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Ty Marcucci

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #181 on: March 22, 2019, 11:13:09 AM »
Hi Traian.  I have been following this amazing work of art and engineering and got to pull test it at the NATS and saw it apart. I was blown away by how light it was/is and at the interior of the wing. It's like going from a Barnstormer to an SV11 or Ford Model T to a Formula 40.

I do hope, and I know many others do as well,  you put this on the market.

As to only15 appearance points, had it been fully painted I have no doubt it would have garnered 18 to 20.  But that carbon fiber wing was just too pretty to paint over. Also the name s perfect for this model. H^^

Hope to pull test you at the up coming NATS. Ty M. AMA 3429  H^^
Ty Marcucci

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #182 on: April 01, 2019, 10:00:38 AM »
Thanks
The only way this is going on the market is if i get 10 or more orders paid upfront so I can buy all the material and get it done. I tried to get to market something else, ended up with a lot of material on my hands and some 60% of commitments bailing out on me.
I know this will sound bis because is my baby per say, but for me jumping from a Twister-ish plane to a SV-12 was a big jump and moving from SV-ish models to Revolutions is another big jump. Twister to SV to Revolutions = Honda Accord to Ferrari to Bugatti Veyron. To me and Mark it is drastic and for sure significant step up.
I will share with you at the NATS if you want to try.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Motorman

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #183 on: April 01, 2019, 10:54:34 AM »
Come up with a price.
There will be a sunny day and we will fly our airplanes.