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Author Topic: REvolutions  (Read 33132 times)

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #100 on: May 03, 2018, 07:07:06 AM »
 My Progress
Worked on wings and fuse nose.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #101 on: May 03, 2018, 07:11:26 AM »
Eye 🍭
Fuse nose assembly
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #102 on: May 07, 2018, 07:12:00 AM »
The part got stuck in the mold due to release issues. I spent all weekend fixing the mold. I am returning back to the Wax PVA system. Someone will say I told you so, and he would be right. The thing is you can not assume that what works on a mold surface (material) will work on another one. No problem in admiring a screw up but it was beyond my control and knowledge. Some one said if it was easy everyone would do it.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #103 on: May 07, 2018, 09:56:55 AM »
How do we know if it will work or not if we don't try it.   Glad you got it fixed.  Hope to see end result in the future. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline jfv

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #104 on: May 07, 2018, 01:44:41 PM »
Looking good Traian.  What does the wing panel weigh?
Jim Vigani

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #105 on: May 21, 2018, 08:37:30 PM »
Some updates
The new wing panel is 134g the horizontal piece is 33g the las nose that came out of the mold 57g.
I pulled out of the mold the first rear fuselage section. It got stuck in the mold because I rushed the polishing and waxing. I guess if you cant do it right the first time around you will find time to do thing again correctly  '' .
the good new is that it weights 213g untrimmed. With nose together I have a 270g fuselage. 9.5oz fuselage.
The tally so far for a model wings stab fuse is roughly 612g.  That is 21.6 oz for the model. in adition to that there will be the landing gear the control system motor spinner prop ESC timer tip weight. I am using a 215g motor 5S 2800 Prolite TP. I think I put that data somewhere in here.

Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #106 on: May 24, 2018, 11:32:23 AM »
I spent time making new foam plugs for the next fuselages.
Here are some things I would like to change in the next layout.
1 Carbon foam glass in the flat areas.
2 Carbon ribs laid in the mold from start.
3 CW30 Foam glass for vertical fin and rudder.
4 get rid of all ribs
5 Stringers alongside the fuselage for even better stiffness
6 Eliminate the scissors trim of material.

Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #107 on: May 31, 2018, 06:02:02 AM »
It’s out of the mold tipping the scale at 200g
The whole fuse is 257g 250-255g after I cut the holes.
The whole airfarame (wings tail fuselage) is just under 21oz.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #108 on: June 21, 2018, 11:48:51 AM »
Due to lack of interest I will stop posting here. Just tired of being a TV anchor. Thanks for watching.

I have the first bird put together and in final assembly right now. The airframe (fuse wings tails hard-points gear struts) weighs 642g 22.64oz for a plane the size of a Strega. Total weight with heaviest motor battery setup 45oz. In adition to the 45oz zit needs a tail wheel spinner and props axles and wheels and control system parts. So final will be around 50oz.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Brent Williams

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #109 on: June 21, 2018, 03:55:54 PM »
Due to lack of interest I will stop posting here. Just tired of being a TV anchor. Thanks for watching.



Topic: REvolutions  (Read 7422 times)   

Looks like there is plenty of interest in your project.  I know that I follow your posts with interest.   

There just is not a lot for most to say, unless you just want a continual string of "wow", or "looks neat!" or "keep it up!"  It's so outside of the normal construction method box that there are very few that have anything productive to add to the discussion.  That doesn't mean that it isn't being viewed or appreciated.  Who else on this forum is doing full molded carbon construction besides you and Jose Modesto?  Looks like a very clever process to use to build an airplane.

So, please keep posting.  It is educational for us all.

Wow!
Looks neat!
Keep it up!
Laser-cut, "Ted Fancher Precision-Pro" Hard Point Handle Kits are available again.  PM for info.
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Offline Dane Martin

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #110 on: June 21, 2018, 05:08:09 PM »
Indeed. Please keep the posting up. It's actually very helpful. I have 2 planes I plan on building electric. My 59" stuka and my imitation kit from Mike Griffin / RSM.
Reading through these gives great insight and ideas. A lot of us don't jump in because we may feel we have nothing to add to the conversation.

Offline Curare

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #111 on: June 21, 2018, 05:24:39 PM »
I'm watching! I just haven't seen the need to comment is all. Keep going, there's a lot of us watching with bated breath!
Greg Kowalski
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Offline jfv

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #112 on: June 21, 2018, 09:25:22 PM »
Please don't stop posting.  We're watching with great interest and learning a lot.
Jim Vigani

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #113 on: June 22, 2018, 06:05:37 AM »
Some pictures for take apart in the horizontal and control system
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Jim Damerell

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #114 on: June 22, 2018, 08:07:40 AM »
Please forgive me if I missed this info earlier, but what are the red ball links you are using?

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #115 on: June 22, 2018, 08:33:58 AM »
Jim

They are close to a 4-40 size screw. Very smooth with no bind whatsoever, unlike the plastic type which can have a little bind in them. They are sold as pairs with LH and RH threads. I have made my own rod ends.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20pcs-Aluminum-M3-Link-Rod-End-Ball-Joint-CW-CCW-for-1-10-RC-Car-Crawler-Buggy/262241396196?epid=1254466092&hash=item3d0ece25e4:g:IfwAAOSwoydWmJ1o

The rods I use are 6mm OD 5mm ID, and you can get them from here https://alofthobbies.com/carbon-fiber-tubes.html

To me the ball links are a little on the heavy side but they have an absolutely free movement (no bind), and are made out of aluminium anodized with steel ball and will likely never wear out.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Vincent Judd

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #116 on: June 22, 2018, 05:59:22 PM »
Your workmanship is amazing, can't wait to see the finished product.

Thanks for sharing this journey with us.

Online John Rist

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #117 on: June 22, 2018, 10:34:26 PM »
Would love to see a photo of the final ship!   #^
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Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #118 on: June 22, 2018, 10:49:30 PM »
The assembly went very much trouble free. All parts fit like a glove.
I have to do some final glue joints and I am off to bolting in the hardware and put the electric system in place.

I will put a final picture. Right now I am not worried about painting at all. I want to see how is the CG and judge the performance.

I will add some pictures when done.

There will be a bit of testing.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #119 on: June 23, 2018, 09:55:01 AM »
I am still awaiting the flight reports. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #120 on: June 25, 2018, 09:17:30 AM »
Here you go
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline jfv

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #121 on: June 25, 2018, 09:57:04 AM »
Very nice.  It looks just like the CAD drawings!!  Harder to do than people think.  What was the layup for the wings?
Jim Vigani

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #122 on: June 25, 2018, 01:25:03 PM »
Jim the wing layout is Carbon bias 45 degrees, 1.5mm foam, and .75 fiberglss 0-90 orientation. The weight of a wing skin section 100sq in is 11.5g. 
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Curare

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #123 on: June 25, 2018, 04:18:26 PM »
Is it just me or does that have a swept elevator hingeline?

While we're discussing hingelines - how were the control surfaces hinged?
Greg Kowalski
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Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #124 on: June 26, 2018, 06:22:14 AM »
Is it just me or does that have a swept elevator hingeline?

While we're discussing hingelines - how were the control surfaces hinged?

Thanks
If you look in the first CAD pictures at the beginning of the thread you will notice the horizontal position. It sweeps back about 10 degrees total at hinge line and it also has a 5 degrees dihedral.
The hinge is made out of Kevlar over the full span. I insert the hinge when i close the two mold halves. You break it loose after you demold the part and work it out. As the resin inside the hinge line breaks down it gets looser and better.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #125 on: July 05, 2018, 06:48:21 PM »
Looks like trhe Bees Knees , the Hight of technological / cutting edge . Hope you've some time on it , for the Nats .  H^^

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #126 on: July 09, 2018, 05:22:19 AM »
I just have 4 full flights on this bird and it is soo good is unbelievable. My buddy Mark characterized the flight characteristics as “astonishing”. I share in his opinion. It corners like mad tracks like on rails and I have not yet started to explore the edge yet. Is so easy to fly.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #127 on: July 09, 2018, 07:58:32 AM »
That sounds great.  Now to impress the judges. LL~ LL~
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline jfv

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #128 on: July 09, 2018, 10:06:57 AM »
Great news.  I'm jealous!
Jim Vigani

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #129 on: July 09, 2018, 06:18:17 PM »
I was waiting on the flight reviews before commenting.  That control system is a work of art.  Everything with unlimited adjustments all centered in one place that, with a little planning can be accessed through a hatch of some sort - genius.  When I saw you were coupling that with zero gap flaps and elevators I deduced that you would have a plane that would be so tame as to fly like it was being controlled by a computer.   I think you have done for control systems what electric engines have done for propulsion.

Only a handful of people will be able to duplicate what you have done but soon everybody will need one of these to to stay competitive.    This could lead to another run on the BOM rule and maybe even a ban on fully composite air-frames.   Let's hope not.

My hat is off to a truly superior effort.  Post a video someday.

Ken
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Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #130 on: July 09, 2018, 08:34:22 PM »
Quote
maybe even a ban on fully composite air-frames

We could make them from Bamboo , Irish Linen and Banana Oil .
Would be about as inteligent , petty and backward , as baning Propellors .

Even if the Americas Cup things are one hit wonders , hardly last a season , the Composite F1 grand Prix Chassis are a bit more durable .
Maybe they could go back to timber chassis and wheels . With rear wheel brakes only . It could make it more intresting . S?P

C'mon !? the 22nd century's only 80 odd years away .

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #131 on: July 10, 2018, 11:19:12 AM »
Matt, can you imagine him doing your Folkerts with this type construction?   Hey I still look at the plans and details.. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #132 on: July 15, 2018, 08:30:34 AM »
I am done with the NATS
Finished 5th with 1032 total score. Best flight at NATS was 536 my personal best as a matter of fact. This was mabe #15 patterns on the model. And we oly managed a crude setup at best. Battery usage is about  1350-1405mAh.
Weight is 58oz now with heavier power components and heavier tail.
Because low power consumption the door is open for a 4S 2800 witch will instantly shave 4.1oz lighter tails will open the door to a 52oz model.
It is all I have for now.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Online John Rist

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #133 on: July 15, 2018, 05:08:46 PM »
WOW! Way to!  Looks like a winner.   #^
John Rist
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Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #134 on: July 16, 2018, 05:30:42 AM »
Finished model pictures
After the NATS I let my buddy Mark fly REvolutions and after 3 flights most of which where handle settings he put what in his words was the best flight of his life. I think I mentioned how good this is in the air and my characterization of it's flight envelope is easy to fly effortless rounds corners and tracking.
I have not have the chance to optimize the model to my flying stile liking due to lack of time. I have not even started to tap in it's potential and am very curious to see how much farther can I push this bird.  In a practice flight i tried to see what kind of corner is it capable of and had not enough handle to do it with. For future I want to find out what flaps elevator throws will give maximum corner. Then after I sort out the ground clearance I want to see what power packages are practical better etc.
Chris Rud will get his hands on it in the near future (next few days) and I am curious to see what trim changes he wants to do. We have a lot of work waiting ahead of us. We need trim evaluation and optimization we need more power plant optimization etc.

Nats funny stories:
Tuesday at appearance judging weigh in registration I walk in and get ready to pass the model to Gene Martine. When he sees the big bird he widens his footing to get better stands getting ready to receive the heavy beast. I pass it to him and he goes "holly shi..." he looks at me and his second question is "did you put the battery in?". I had a 6S 2800mAh in and i said "yes". Then his jaw dropped.
After Advanced was over Walter one of the judges cam to me and said "you flew the shi... out of that plane look at the scores".
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 06:40:13 AM by TDM »
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline jfv

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #135 on: July 16, 2018, 09:29:36 AM »
Very nice color scheme.  Quite striking.
Jim Vigani

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #136 on: July 16, 2018, 09:41:58 AM »
TDM,

Congratulations with your accomplishment with your prototype REvolutions composite model and finishing 5th at the NATs.

Charles
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Online John Rist

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #137 on: July 16, 2018, 01:39:09 PM »
Dose anyone know what appearance points the REvolution received?   :)!
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Offline Avaiojet

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #138 on: July 16, 2018, 01:45:04 PM »
Dose anyone know what appearance points the REvolution received?   :)!

I was told 15
Trump Derangement Syndrome. TDS. 
Avaiojet Derangement Syndrome. ADS.
Amazing how ignorance can get in the way of the learning process.
If you're Trolled, you know you're doing something right.  Alpha Mike Foxtrot. "No one has ever made a difference by being like everyone else."  Marcus Cordeiro, The "Mark of Excellence," you will not be forgotten. "No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot."- Mark Twain. I look at the Forum as a place to contribute and make friends, some view it as a Realm where they could be King.   Proverb 11.9  "With his mouth the Godless destroys his neighbor..."  "Perhaps the greatest challenge in modeling is to build a competitive control line stunter that looks like a real airplane." David McCellan, 1980.

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #139 on: July 18, 2018, 10:34:43 AM »
My initial set up is
1.5oz tip weight
out thrust 1 degree I think.
.015 68 feet handle to center line.
710 sq in wing area
58oz RTF
Motor is Joker 4250 510KV
Igor timer
TP 2800mAh 6S
flight time 5 min 30 sec
5.4-5.5s lap time
Back in the pack 1350-1405mAh
I set the bellcrank with little Expo in both flaps and elevator.

I do not have any temperature issues at all. The average amp draw per flight is 15.27A during the flight. Hardly any stress on the electric system. The motor is not even breaking a sweat.

I would like to try more Expo and a wider handle. That will maintain my flying stile make the corner harder and maintain predictable soft center for smooth rounds. I bought a 4250 820KV I want to try on 4S with an instant weight savings of 4.2oz. For the 4S i have to move the battery forward 3in. I also have something I want to try on 5S configuration.
Another thing I am considering is to make a new nose for 4S setup. The idea is to fly 6S in the wind and 4S in nice weather.

I want a new aft fuselage section with the landing gear in the right place. That will enable me to go to a 13in prop. Later when I settle on a setup I will consider making a Carbon prop.

Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Vincent Judd

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #140 on: July 19, 2018, 06:54:14 AM »
Congratulations and job well done Traian.  I just went back and checked, you started this thread in September of last year and now, 10 months later you have a finished airplane that looks really nice and obviously flies very well also.  5th in advanced at the Nats with a relatively new airplane, you should be thrilled with that result.  All that hard work and time invested really paid off.  You designed it, you manufactured everything, even designing and hand machining some of the assemblies that you used, you should be very proud.   I have no idea where you found the time to do everything, my hat's off to you.

Continued good luck as you proceed down this path.

Vince

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #141 on: July 19, 2018, 11:09:49 AM »
Traian, that is a really nice model. Very cool and spectacular workmanship.
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #142 on: July 19, 2018, 01:27:52 PM »
Traian,  this has been some project and I wonder if given a little more time results might have placed you higher.   Now will you start version number 2 and keep trimming on this great looking plane? H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
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AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #143 on: July 19, 2018, 03:21:20 PM »
Yes I was matching the average score of the Advanced winner. I was also having my highest personal score in a competition, and this was at the NATS where judges are brutal on the scores. So yes considering I had about 16 patterns on the plane at the time you can say i needed a little more time on the handle.
Starting #2 in a week with new layout on the fuselage. Version 2 I am not sure I want to do this again anytime soon. I love this plane in the air as is.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #144 on: July 20, 2018, 09:59:07 AM »
Hey, look at Dave F. still winning with a plane that has flown several NATS.   Nothing wrong with flying the same plane several years unless you wear it out and keep improving. D>K
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Larry Wong

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #145 on: July 20, 2018, 01:27:01 PM »
I'm Not sure but I think it's the same design, but different plane! ???  different paint jobs!
Larry

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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #146 on: July 23, 2018, 01:34:09 PM »
The airplane is beautiful!! Been following along since the beginning, and the lines of it are awesome! I'd love to get a pull on this airplane. Its so cool looking!
Matt Colan

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #147 on: July 23, 2018, 06:55:08 PM »
If I do that, you will not want to give it back, then I will have to fight you for it.  :)
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Offline TDM

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #148 on: July 23, 2018, 07:54:40 PM »
Here is my flight report.
First of all this is with only maybe 20 flights on the plane.
Triming was basically non existent. I added a little thrust offset and tip weight 1.5oz. Also I tweaked the flaps a tine bit. Because it is so stiff the flight was very predictable and it immediately showed when it did not like something, or if something was slightly off. In one flight the flaps screw was loose a little and it tweaked the flaps position in flight. I knew that instantly. We found the problem after that, tighten the screw a little, and we where back in business. Paul saw it and I confirmed the bug at the hotel. Yes I have flats on the rods, what happens if the rods are not perpendicular to the set screw when you tighten it it will stay there for a while and of course during the official flight it will move a couple of degrees enough to give you grief. This was about the extent of issues we had so far.
Per design I moved the stab up and added the dihedral to put it in clean air. This decision came after a discussion I had with Windy Urtnowsky. It was a perfect decision because the model tracks and locks is effortless.
I also moved the stab backwards to get more moment to turn the corner. Moment (aka Torque) is defined as distance from CG multiplied by force. For same force applied by the elevator the further back you apply it, it has more moment (torque) to turn the plane (change the AOA). I have to say, that box also received a check mark, because this bird turns so tight I have not found the edge yet. Yes I tried to find it.
Control system that is custom with a little Expo in both flaps and elevator combine that with the tracking ability make the round maneuvers a breeze. Put a check mark in that box too.
Because the build construction is composite and composite is over 400 times stronger than balsa (over 800 times if you compare ultimate tensile strength of carbon to ultimate tensile strength of balsa) there is no flex in the air frame anywhere so no funny business like: of one flaps flexing more than the other one, or wing torsion or flexing up and down during flight, there is none of that bull crap to deal with. Consequently I am flying very comfortable at 5.4-5.5s lap time. . The line tension is lighter because the model is relatively light but is everywhere, regardless how hard I hammer the corners, and after I realized that I had to change things in my flying and get rid of bad habits formed from the previous models.
This is with a crude setup. We have not even started to tap in the potential of this plane to this day and only God knows where the edge is. Well I want to know it too. My previous bird was an SV-12 model with a PA60 tuned pipe in it, and if I compare to that is like moving from a BMW M5 to a Bugatti Veyron. The difference is staggering. I just cant get enough of this bird.
It may sound bias but so far I did not hide anything. So take it with a grain of salt. My personal impression is that this is next generation model a leap over anything at very least I have done before.
Each goal you meet is a moment of happiness
Happiness is the harmony between what you think and what you do. Mahatma Gandhi

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: REvolutions
« Reply #149 on: July 23, 2018, 09:02:49 PM »
Can I buy one on Amazon?
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If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC


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