The folks who participate in this forum need to go to the main forum and comment on the movement to try to ban electrics from classic and ots. This was attempted a number of years back and was beat down because the AMA allows it in the rules.  Get your voice heard. This is another power grab being attempted by those who just do not care if the hobby dies.

bob branch

I posted my response to this stupid proposal, I have two gas planes one sparky and one 1/2a racer.  Everything else I fly is electric from Old Time to modern and a bunch in between.  Now some click wants me to toss them so I can fly in their contest.  No Way! 
Andy

Well, I don't have a horse in this race unless the FAI, SAM35 or BMFA decide to go down this route so I don't think it appropriate to add my opinion directly to that thread at this point in time but I have to admit I had to check it was not 1st April when I first read through it.

I'm amazed that such a minority pastime as Control Line has people who want to further limit participation.  Most if any new blood we can attract will increasingly come from an electric background.

Has anyone else noticed the same people who laughed in your face and were deeply offended a few years ago if you suggested they might have problems with over/under runs, bad runs, starting issues etc are the same people who now want to ban electric because of the very same thing?
   
Perhaps an electric only event would be an option and then we can see which gets the most entries in a few years time. Would we allow the solitary guy who turns up with an IC model fly in "our" competition?

Just my 2p worth

TTFN
John.

"Maybe there could be a points penalty for electric. C'mon, face it.. it's a little easier to get a start and a consistent run from an electric than an inverted glow or sparky. 'Just sayin'."

Only if you assign a points penalty to every other kind of propulsion improvemen since the "Glory Days" of OTS and Classic.  And for what its worth it took me a while to come up with a knowledge base that now allows me to go right to the field and get good engine performance off the board with a new setup.  If you care to check it out the people on this forum are very quick to share everything we have learned through our efforts.  We have worked hard to keep the initial cost down and the success up, it really pisses me off that the thanks I get from the gas clan is we don't want you in our contests.  I guess that's why I just finished my first R/C plane in six years and a second is nearing completion.  The fights over BOM and now electric power systems is really starting to get old. 

1. Modern fuel and synthetic oils.
2. Schnuerle porting.
3. Custom bar stock engines.
4. All Eastern European engines, we didn't like the Eastern European Soviet block back then.
5. All Chinese Engines, we really didn't like the Chinese back then.
6. Tuned Pipes were still a ways off.
7. Carbon Fiber props, and anything else made of Carbon fiber.  Example would be bell cranks and engine mounts.
8. We should only use Ambroid and dope, no modern covering materials to get those 20 point finishes.
9. Foam core wings.

I'm sure with a little time I could come up with more, but that's a good start.  Yep electric is bad and every other new improvement is good.
Andy

Hi Keith,
 Well I'm from the other side of the pond so I guess it's unlikely that you would notice these people and it's unlikely that they would ever frequent this forum at least until recently, but yes that's exactly the situation I have experienced over here. I've spent the last 3 years campaigning my electric models flying Vintage (Your OTS) and working myself through class 2 (Beginner) until I graduated to the full F2B pattern. Nothing to prove, no one to impress, it was just the route I decided to take.

It's been a lonely road with nothing more than a casual interest shown by most other pilots. Encouraging comments about "Keeping at it with my experiments but it will never replace IC" were common place and trying to explain the merits of spending time finding a set up which worked and was 99.9% repeatable. (I'll leave the other 0.1% to chance) was usually met with indignation and the suggestion that possibly someone might not be able to start an engine in the allotted time or might put too much or not enough fuel in it was an insult. In short it was a non issue.

Then Igor spoilt it all by winning the worlds. . . . .

Now everything is suddenly easy with electric. All the bad things which never happened before with IC now seem to be common place and put the IC guys at a disadvantage.

The truth of it though we know is a little different. Sure I can get a faultless run time after time after time after... Sure I can get the rpm exactly right time after time after time aft.... but it did not come out of the box like that, some seem to think you just buy the bits connect them all up and it all works like magic. Well, I'll say here and now a badly set up electric model will happily fly just as badly as its poorly set up IC counterpart. The motive power is immaterial. It turns a prop. As long as it gives a good run it doesn't matter if it's powered by electric, gas or a hamster running in a wheel.

You or any other good pilot would beat me hands down  regardless of what you flew and what you powered it with. You can't beat skill with technology. (Just my opinion). I am at a total loss to understand why IC v Electric is even an issue.

TTFN
John.

Hey Keith
I will tell you my little story.  I was flying one of my electrics in a contest and one of the judges wrote on the score sheet "deduct 20 points for electric".  It was meant as a joke only problem was the tabulators weren't in on it and did exactly what he said and took 20 points off my score.  If he hadn't told me what he did I would never have known.  Needless to say Keith I didn't think it was funny.
Andy

snip
(Hmm....wonder if she uses a gas oven.)

Now that was funny Mike!

You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension, a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You are moving into a land of substance and a land of ideas. You have just crossed over into ... the Twilight Zone"

Now that I've let my the smoke out of my governor .... I'm wondering if maybe we need to take a different approach. After all they (the glow contingent) have been telling me for years electrics won't work, they don't have any power, you've never experienced power until you have flown my PA .75, electrics are just throwing a switch. Oh and of course anyone can fly a glow motored plane, give up that electric @#$% and fly a real plane.  These are just a few I have heard since I started with electric. Never mind that I have flown glow since the 50's.

Well, maybe its time to dish it back? Tell these cavemen that real fliers fly electric. That is where the challenges are at. Any idiot can fly glow. Hell, stunt has known how to do that since the 40's. Want a real challenge, drop your PA and try to make it with an electric! You try to compete with a plane you have to weigh with all the fuel onboard and drag those lines around. You try to figure out how to win when you get no appearance points, you try to figure out how to be competitive when you only have 3 props to choose from that work in the entire range of motor sizes. You try to compete when your car battery is running down. Hell, any 7 year old kid from the 50's could make a fox .35 run. Anyone can fly stunt with a $350 to $400- custom motor turning a $60 prop on a carbon fiber pipe. Get out here with a $25 motor and try to compete against that kinda stuff you are flying with. They whine about having to compete against a Yosenko cause it costs too much. Well, we take out $18 to $100 motors out against them every week and try to compete. If they have any ba**s, let them try to take on that kind of a challenge!  Their airplanes are even refined with over 60 years of extensive design work by every stunt flier since the 50's refining every little design nuance optimized to their type of power system. I have only seen a few electric airplanes designed from the ground up for electric. All of my electrics drag around airfoils designed for a glow motor that has to be loaded down. To an electric that is just a power and weight penalty to drag around for the entire flight, from takeoff thru every maneuver. And now they whine cause a guy won a contest they thought should be perpetually theirs while he was using an electric. What a bunch of wimps! And a glow flier is gonna try to tell someone that they are the best with those kind of inbred advantages? Give me a break!

Of course I would NEVER say anything like that to a glow flier. I'd be afraid to hurt their ego. As it is they want to scarf up more points for appearance, more points for being weighed without the entire power system weight, more advantage here, more advantage there...ban electrics from classes they have been allowed in, ignore the rulebooks that allow electrics to fly, penalize them if they do not fly a plane that is built and finished in some mythical manner that is what their idea of the world should be.  Don't they have enough to come out and try to just plane outfly an electric without all their little additional advantages? I am starting to think they should be challenged right where it rests, with their ego! If they know so much and electric is so easy,I think they should be challenged to come out and try it. To make it easier for them, we will even post every detail of every electric stunter we have flown since we started competing in electric in public for them to learn what has taken years and years for us to figure out.  (Oh, we already do that don't we? Right down to the rpm's they should dial to! Its so simple, just throwing a switch guys!) They want to FLY stunt competition, let them come out and face electrics on a level playing field and actually compete for a change!

We now return control of your computer to you. We thank you for traveling thru imagination, time, and space, thru ... the Twilight Zone.

Ya know Bob...
I don't know you but I'm beginning to get really irritated at your arrogance and hostility.
Put a cork in it!

Randy Cuberly

Hey Mike got a good laugh out of the cookie part and so did Jackie.  Just for the record we use an electric oven, they are just so much better than gas!
Andy

Does RJ realize what he has started?   As a kid we had propane cook stoves.  Then later in life Mother got her first electric range.  Had to have the house wired for it and Dad did the wiring.  Then later when I got married, it was an electrice range.  Cooking oil fire got rid of the electric range.  They both had good points and bad points.   With storms and no power, no electrice range.  With gas a match would light the flame and also with gas it didn't take as long to heatup.   

And yes Andrew's lovely wife make great cookies.  He is so lucky.  Also she is not afraid to get oil on her hands from those slimy model planes. 

Dan, you don't need to use the entirety of Missile Mist in a marinade-- just the white stuff that settles to the bottom of the can.  It's concentrated phlogiston, and can be used merely to baste the batteries.  Hope this helps.

Phlogiston ... so that's what makes for a hot motor run!
I should have known. 
  Dean P.

Dan

Even with his history you can't find fault with Dean on this. Its been so long since I even saw an old Missle Mist Can I had almost forgotten about that lovely elixer until you mentioned it. And here all I have around is 20% Rich's brew at the hot end. No wonder I have to use an extra cell in my packs!

bob branch

Funny? Heck, I'm jealous I didn't think of it! 

bob branch

If electrics are banned then all IC ships should be forced to use the old clear neoprene fuel line.

Ahh!  Someone who remembers that awful stuff that became rock-hard after several flights and finally slipped off the connection.  <chuckle>  Bet there aren't many on here who remember the awful stuff.

(No, Doc....I know YOU do.)

Count me as one who remembers too!! 

For the record, neoprene fuel line is black. The horrible clear stuff...I don't know, I soon learned not to use it, when I was about 10, middle '50's. Maybe that's vinyl?

I don't know what the solution is regarding electrics in OTS and Classic. But I do maintain that if electrics are to be allowed in OTS and Classic, then IC's should be allowed to use tuned pipes in these same events. Otherwise, electrics have an even bigger advantage than they would otherwise. Or, how about if you're going to be allowed to use electrics in OTS and Classic, you'll have to use Ni-Cad batteries? The extra weight should make it an interesting challenge and equalizer.  

Any CD or contest organizer can put into their pre-contest publicity that electrics will get a 10 point bonus or a 10 point penalty, or tuned pipes will (or won't) be allowed, and it's legal. That's up to them, so either live with it, lobby for your point of view, or just don't attend. It might be a rule at VSC, but only if they put it into the publicity...so read the fine print! If they don't put it into the publicity, then run what you brung!   Steve

Clear fuel line tubing !  just like Doc said.  Had to wire it on the spray bar with soft copper wire.  Well er, ah, I don't actually remember the stuff, cause I'm certainly NOT THAT OLD, it's just my "older" friends told me about it, yeah that's it, my "older" friends told me about it. 

He he, maybe we can have the requirement for a contest-provided "randomizer" chip that gets installed prior to the flight which alters the run somehow.

 

Chuck

I've been had ! Wow, the Perfect Products rack.  That brings back memories.  Just like you said Chuck.  As far as pacifiers go, I was a bladder guy so no little baby toys for me. But yeah I wrapped em with the same copper wire that was used on the stinkin Perfect Clear fuel tubing. Surgical/Silicone tubling was a Godsend compared to that stuff.  Also remember you had to keep it away from the exhaust stack or it would get burned .  Boy I sure do miss all the glow engine related idiosyncrasies now that I turned Electric.  Yeah, sure I do. 

Hey Tom, sounds good to me.  That's one of those contest where nobody loses.
Andy

Hey Andy, maybe there should be a cook off between your wife and Linda Gleason.  Cookies vs. Brownies . The guys (beneficiaries) will all appreciate it.
[/quote]

It is a toss up,  one is just as good as the other.   They also help moving planes when you need help.  Two of great ladies we have among all the great ladies in control line.  Ole Dad and Andy are very, very, very lucky.