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Author Topic: ESC Timer problem  (Read 1925 times)

Offline john vlna

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ESC Timer problem
« on: November 14, 2010, 06:59:08 PM »
I have a clown with a Turnigy C3530-1400Kv motor and Exceed RC 30a ESC.  The Motor pulls about 21amps static with a 8X4. I have been using an e-flite timer and have never had any problem. I am pretty sure the last time I flew I used the same ESC. Today however the esc-timer combo didn't work.

When the system is armed instead of beeping as usual to indicate a 3s battery, it went into a continuous beep and would not start. I tried my U/Tronics controller and it worked fine. The timer worked with an different Exceed RC 18A esc.

I was wondering if anyone has run into a similar esc-timer problem

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2010, 11:00:13 PM »
Sounds like the Exceed 30 amp esc has blown, especially if it no longer gives the start-up beeps correctly.

Keith R
Keith R

Offline john vlna

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2010, 08:48:46 AM »
Kieth you are probably right, what gets me it that it still works with a R/C or U/Tronics controller. Buy cheap get cheap I guess.

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2010, 09:45:05 AM »
John -

It sounds as if the ESC is not getting the correct arming sequence from the timer (or at least not recognizing it) - most of them need to see a 1.0 msec pulse for a certain period of time before they will arm.  If they are capable of 'transmitter programming' they go into program mode if they see anything besides that 1.0 msec. arming pulse, which would sound like a continuous series of beeps.


I'm not familiar with the e-flight timers, but I would try this ESC with a different brand of timer and see if that works.  It is possible that the e-flight timer doesn't get all the way down to 1.0 msec.
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline john vlna

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2010, 05:22:54 PM »
Mike,
I tried a different brand of timer, same result. I also have another esc of the same brand that works with the timers, so I think it is this particular esc. It just seems odd that it works with a transmitter and U/Tronics controller. Wish I had a scope so I could see what each unit is putting out. I am ready to throw in the towel, but I just hate to leave a mystery unsolved.
John

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2010, 08:42:40 PM »
I have a scope -if you want you can send it to me and I'll see what I can see.  It is very odd that it works with radio/u-tronics but not with a timer.  Are you SURE that you are plugging in the timer in the correct orientation on the  plug?  I know that I have often plugged in a timer with the plug flipped to the wrong orientation.

Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline Will Hubin

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2010, 08:25:34 AM »
I have an E-Flite C/L timer that came with an E-Flite PT-19. It puts out a 1.024 ms pulse width at about 48 Hz, which should be fine. But perhaps the recalcitrant ESC wants something else. You might try using the throttle trim to see if the ESC wants an off (arming) pulse width close to, or further from, the neutral position, Mike.

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2010, 09:37:00 AM »
Hi Will -

I was hoping you'd check out this thread - it's John Vlna's ESC not mine.  It seems to be that this ESC has some issue though I don't know what it could be.  His ESC works with a radio and with the Clancy Utronics circuit but not with timers (different brands).

I'm not familiar with the Exceed brand, though I would guess it is just another label on one of the Hobbywing series.  So I don't know what the beeping sounds like or what it is trying to tell the outside world.  Generally, if they won't arm it is too long a pulse or possibly it senses a battery that is already below cutoff.

Off the top of my head, I can't see how a timer would affect either of those conditions.

If the ESC is a real cheap one, it becomes an issue of how much time is it worth spending on it.
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline Will Hubin

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2010, 02:22:27 PM »
You're right that it may not be worth the time and effort to figure out what the bad ESC is thinking, Mike -- but we hate an unsolved mystery!

It seems that whatever the timers are currently putting out doesn't satisfy this ESC. These microcontrollers are stable enough that I wouldn't expect it to change its arming pulse width significantly over time--and it didn't work with other timers, either.

That does point to the ESC as suddenly wanting something different. Since the throttle trim does affect the width of the arming pulse (throttle off), the only in situ experiment (for John!) that I can think of is to see if throttle trim affects the ability of the radio to arm the ESC.

If you wants to pursue the matter, perhaps just for the sake of science, John, you could send the ESC to Mike or me, and we could use a throttle emulator to try to make it run a motor.

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2010, 03:22:39 PM »
"You're right that it may not be worth the time and effort to figure out what the bad ESC is thinking, Mike -- but we hate an unsolved mystery!"

I know -- I've got a whole box of stuff that either SHOULD work or should be fixable, but the time just never seems to be available.  I won't (or can't) throw it away though.


I did look up the "Exceed" brand ESC's - it seems they are just the Hobbywing ESC's with a different label.  The programming card is the same one that is sold with a myriad of other cheapo ESC's.
Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline John Rist

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2010, 05:28:41 PM »
You can build a pulse width test fixture by using an old servo.  What I have done is bolt the servo to a 2" x 4" board.  I then mount a a pointer to the servo arm that swings over the board.  I then drove this servo with a know good source and marked, on the board points of interest such as full off and full throttle.  You can then plug up the problem source and see where it drives the "calibrated servo pointer" with respect to the known good source.  I have been doing this for years and as it turns out it is very repeatable and accurate.  I do have an O-scope to verify this fact.  If anyone builds such a device I will be glad to calibrate for you. Just remember the servo needs a separate battery, 4.5 to 6 volts, whereas a speedcontroller does not. I use a home made Y harness to connect the battery.  Most any Y harness will work.  I use a 4 cell AAA battery holder with servo connector added for the power source.  Just be careful not to wire the battery backwards.  Reverse voltage will blow up the servo.
John Rist
AMA 56277

Offline john vlna

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2010, 06:40:20 PM »
John,
A clever idea, I think I'll try to build one
Jonh v.

Offline Mike Anderson

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2010, 08:17:42 PM »
Here is the one I built - it also has a pulse generator to use for programming
ESC's (none of my transmitters work anymore).  You can either hook it up
as a pulse generator or just as a pulse width meter.


Mike@   AMA 10086
Central Iowa

Offline John Rist

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2010, 09:25:55 PM »
John,
A clever idea, I think I'll try to build one
Jonh v.

I will be happy to calibrate it for you.  Just pay postage.  Ps all I need is the mounted servo.  I have the rest.
John Rist
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Offline john vlna

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2010, 07:16:36 PM »
John,
Thanks, I'll put one together, probably not until after Thanksgiving
John V

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2010, 01:31:01 AM »
The problem with arming could be that some ESC can "learn" o% throttle from sender. Typically those programmable by throttle stick. It stores 0% and 100% throttle position and it can be different because of throttle trim position.

BTW - you can buy one Jeti box instead of building such device, it is also signal monitor and also signal generetor ... another reason to have that small box  ;D

Offline john vlna

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2010, 10:30:02 AM »
Igor,
I am aware of the 0-100% programming issue. I programmed the esc with my U/Tronics, it still didn't work on the timers. But like I said my other (Exceed RC same a Hobbywing I think) ESC's work and this one doesn't. It seems fine as a RC unit though. I don't think I would trust it in a RC plane, but for a sport CL throttle control it seems OK.
I'll look into the Jeti, but John's no cost unit would probably cover most of my needs.
JV

Offline John Rist

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2010, 05:57:22 PM »
eBay has a servo tester that looks pretty good,

http://cgi.ebay.com/Esky-Servo-Tester-000537-EK2-0939-Futaba-JR-Hitec-D308-/170566658256?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27b690a8d0

Or search for Esky Servo Tester
Shipping and all it is $20.  I actually think I have one somewares, new still in the box. It was so cheep I couldn't resists.  I will dig it out and give it test run.  I will report on the results.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 09:03:27 PM by John Rist »
John Rist
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Offline John Rist

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2010, 12:34:29 PM »
eBay has a servo tester that looks pretty good,

http://cg.eBay.com/-000537-EK2-0939-308-/170566658256?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27b690a8d0

Or search for Esky Servo Tester
Shipping and all it is $20.  I actually think I have one somewares, new still in the box. It was so cheep I couldn't resists.  I will dig it out and give it test run.  I will report on the results.

Well I fired it up and here is what I know.  It looks really good and comes with 3 cables.  One for power, one for servos and one for receivers.  The default mode is pulse output (servo testing mode).  In this mode you connect a servo, crank the pulse width pot and read the pulse width on the digital display.  The display proved to be quite accurate when compaired to all of my standards.  The only problem I found was that the unit did not want to provide power to the servo.  With the red (+5V) servo lead connected the unit becomes unstable and the servo oscillates.  By disconnecting the red lead for the tester and feeding the servo power through a separate battery it worked great.  I am sure that it will work fine on an electronic speed controller because a speed controller does not draw power from the tester.  In fact I would leave the red lead disconnected when testing a speed controller.

Now for the Pulse Input side of the tester.  This side of the tester is auto detect to activate.  It is designed to plug into a RC receiver servo channel connector.  It looks for +5V on the red lead and a signal on the signal lead.  When fed these two signals it goes into the monitor mode and displays the pulse width of the incoming signal.  Once again it proved to be quite accurate.  The only problem is that most control line signal sources (timers and or electronic throttles) do not put out +5V on the red lead.  So at first I couldn't get the Esky to read my controll handles pulse width.  By connecting an external battery to the red lead of the pulse input terminal it started to work.

So the bottom line this unit is designed to work with RC receivers making it a little cumberson to hook up. However once working it seem to do a good job.  Is it worth $20 - Probably.
 H^^  H^^  H^^
John Rist
AMA 56277

Offline john vlna

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Re: ESC Timer problem
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2010, 11:02:52 AM »
John,
A friend loaned me a GWS tester it is suppose to be able to test servos from 300-2700usec. It will go down to 300, but only goes to 2000. The servo I checked it with bottomed out around 400, but looks like it could go beyond 2000. It can be used to check transmiiter, if they have a trainer cord, but there does not seem to be a way of checking something like a u/tronics unit
jv


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