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Author Topic: Cooling and Rain.  (Read 536 times)

Offline John Hammonds

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Cooling and Rain.
« on: July 16, 2011, 06:52:12 PM »
Hi All,
 I'm planning on starting my 1st full fuselage model (Well 1st for around 35 years) and I've been looking at how to route the cooling ducts. Up to now I've been flying profile models and any days where it's rained have been a write off because of the obvious issues with controllers and getting them wet. Of course I don't fly in rain by choice but in a competition a shower or two does not stop the event in the UK.

So my question is simple. How do I ensure sufficient cooling to the necessary bits and pieces without allowing water to get into areas I don't want it to so I don't have to forfeit a flight if I'm called to the circle and it's raining.

Would a simple baffle system be enough? Presumably being heavier than air any water droplets would be captured by the baffles rather than reaching the electrics does this sound like a plan? Would a filter system be better?

It's all hypothetical at the moment, the build is a month or so away but any info or suggestions will help me organise the front end while it's still on the drawing board rather than having to hack into it after frying something expensive.

Thanks in advance

TTFN
John.
I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.....
Fast, Cheap, Reliable - Choose any 2!
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Offline jim gilmore

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Re: Cooling and Rain.
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2011, 11:43:16 PM »
I would not think rain water would be a big issue.
It should be pretty free from metals....
But I would be more concerned with the other stuff that can accompany rain...lightning.

Offline bob branch

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Re: Cooling and Rain.
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2011, 06:18:37 AM »
I watched Rick Sawicki fly an electric profile in the rain at a local contest. Rick is our local electric expert. He put the esc in a plastic baggie left over from lunch and flew away. I don't remember if he put the hubin timer in the baggie too or not. I think he did. No issue with the motor. I would think your esc would be far enough back in the fuse not to have much of an issue.

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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Cooling and Rain.
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2011, 11:35:44 AM »
I would not think rain water would be a big issue.
It should be pretty free from metals....

The two things you'd really have to worry about are conduction and corrosion (which will lead to conduction).  If it's free of salts (i.e., metal ions) then a bit of water will be unlikely to do either -- I've got a receiver and ESC that stayed in a plane in a tree in the rain for a week before it blew down, the electronics are fine (the plane needed some work).

If you let it stay damp then the various metals will corrode, and the oxides will conduct electricity.  This will both be a problem in operation, and it'll be a problem because it'll lead to more corrosion.  If you're flying where there's salt spray then you'll also get salt on the works.  A day's flying probably won't cause you problems that day, but it'd lead to corrosion later.

So if it's just rain with no salt spray then go fly, and figure out a way to make sure that things dry out promptly once you're back at the shop.  I'd think on the lines of an ESC and timer that can be easily pulled out of the plane and allowed to dangle from their leads out the battery hatch.  If you live near the coast, then consider making ESC and timer removable so that you can inspect them for signs of corrosion and deal with it.

Quote
But I would be more concerned with the other stuff that can accompany rain...lightning.

In some places in the world you almost always get lightning with rain.  In others, lightning is rare.  I don't know about John, but I live in Oregon west of the Cascade mountains.  Here we rarely hear thunder and almost never see lightning flashes.  So flying in a light rain is probably quite safe (and some years, it's the only way to get in flying time!).  If it's the same where John lives, then he may be safe.
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline John Hammonds

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Re: Cooling and Rain.
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2011, 05:48:02 PM »
Thanks for the replies. The reason for my concern dates back to the 80's when I used to race off road electric buggy's, It was not uncommon for at least one person to fry a system if the going was excessively wet, most used to mount all the gear in small plastic (Tupperware)? food containers but it was always necessary to keep the MOSFETS (Remember them) on the controller out in the airflow, and they were usually the source of any problems. I guess modern electronics are a lot more forgiving. Lightning is not usually a problem over here but I agree it's not something you want to be around when hanging onto a 60ft conductor. I'm located right in the middle of the UK nowhere near the coast so not much worry about salt spray in the air it's just good old H20 I need to be aware of.

So, I'll just go down the common sense route and make sure there is a good amount of air able to get to the electronics (Also able to get out again) but probably arrange a simple baffle just for my own piece of mind.

Thanks again

TTFN
John.
I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.....
Fast, Cheap, Reliable - Choose any 2!
BMFA 165249

Offline John Rist

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Re: Cooling and Rain.
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2011, 10:49:54 PM »
Back in the good old days I actually wrote the column Scoping Out for RC Car Action.  Mostly I reviewed speed controllers.  And yes if you got them wet they would blow the FETS.  The reason was that the FETS were switched hard on or hard off.  Both of these states dissipated very little power in the FET and they stayed cool.  Get them wet and the moisture mixed with the contaminates on the PCB would create a leakage path that would turn the FETS slightly ON.  In this state they would exhibit high resistance and at high current they would go POOF!!!

My engineering carear was in military/space electronics.  To qualify a military box it had to withstand 100% humidity and salt spray.  The primary way we accomplished this was by coating a PCB and all of it's components.

I haven't kept up with today's brushless motor ESC.  But I am certain they have FETS in them.  I also don't know if they coat the PCB.  Quit likely not.  So I would think water and ESCs don't mix.  They sell ESCs for boats.  I suspect that they are sealed.  It is also possible that some of the expensive speed controllers are coated - but I really don't know.  One of coatings we used was clear krylon.  If you are really concerned one could remove the shrink wrap - spray coat the board and components and replace the shrink wrap.  Just be careful not to get any of the Krylon in a connector.

Not much here you can hang you hat on - just relating the little I know about the subject.

 H^^
John Rist
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Cooling and Rain.
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2011, 11:42:39 PM »
Back in the good old days I actually wrote the column Scoping Out for RC Car Action.  Mostly I reviewed speed controllers.  And yes if you got them wet they would blow the FETS.  The reason was that the FETS were switched hard on or hard off.  Both of these states dissipated very little power in the FET and they stayed cool.  Get them wet and the moisture mixed with the contaminates on the PCB would create a leakage path that would turn the FETS slightly ON.  In this state they would exhibit high resistance and at high current they would go POOF!!!

My engineering carear was in military/space electronics.  To qualify a military box it had to withstand 100% humidity and salt spray.  The primary way we accomplished this was by coating a PCB and all of it's components.

I haven't kept up with today's brushless motor ESC.  But I am certain they have FETS in them.  I also don't know if they coat the PCB.  Quit likely not.  So I would think water and ESCs don't mix.
They have FETs.  If they're following current industry trends then the FET gates are driven from a source that's always low impedance -- it's either driving them on hard, or driving them off hard, and a bit of water wouldn't hurt anything.

But -- that's if they're following the current industry trends.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.


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