Author Topic: Phoenix 35 set up program settings (Read 2875 times)

Dan Bregar · « **on:** April 27, 2011, 07:29:08 PM »

OK guys. I'm trying to set up my first ever programable ESC. I get confused on the different Governor Mode settings. It seems the "simple" governor mode is working OK. But I wonder if I'm supposed to be in the "Set RPM" Governor mode. If so I don't know how many magnets are around the diameter of the motor, so I'm not able to give the program this information. Can Anyone out there give me some good orderly direction ?

Dean Pappas · « **Reply #1 on:** April 27, 2011, 09:03:23 PM »

Hi Dan,
Governor mode, as opposed to set RPM mode would be my choice. There are timers that give you a narrow range needle-valve for weather related adjustment.
Dean P.

William DeMauro · « **Reply #2 on:** April 28, 2011, 06:24:11 AM »

Can you tell us what motor and battery?

WhittleN · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2011, 08:04:20 AM »

Dan
I asked the same thing a year ago. To alleviate this problem I wrote the Electric cookbook. You can find a copy on this forum Post-its.
If you look at your motor through the cooling openings you should see magnets glued to the outside (actually inside) of the case - if you have an outrunner.
Norm

Will Hubin · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2011, 09:03:51 AM »

Back in August of '08 I did a calibration of the Simple Governor mode of the Phoenix. It covered RPMs from about 4000 to about 13,000 RPM, so it covers the RPMs of interest to use. It may govern as well as the High RPM or Low RPM governed modes but it has relatively large spacing between available adjacent RPMs, so the High RPM mode is preferable from that standpoint. For users of the FM-9, the Simple RPM mode calibration isn't included but a user can always use the throttle mode and establish his own RPM vs. throttle calibration.

Ward Van Duzer · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2011, 10:21:28 AM »

Norm,

Your cookbook seems to indicate that all items (motor, Controller, Timer, and battery) must be hooked up to program the ICE 50. My instructions seem to indicate that the controller will get it's power from the computer. I believe it also shows the receiver wired in. For R/C of course, but for us do we need the timer (my FM-2a) hooked up? I'm confused. (What else?)

W.

WhittleN · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2011, 11:00:47 AM »

Ward
The ESC is indeed programmed on its own, just computer to ESC. You actually can't connect the timer and Computer at the same time unless you use a "y" connector or Castle Creations special Quick Connect cable. The let’s connect everything was more of a how we connect the system and an interconnection picture. Some of the really new folks wanted me to show how to interconnect all the components.
Norm

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2011, 04:31:50 PM »

Dean---- I'm running an Arrowwind 2815/09 mtr. on a 4s2200 batt., and a FM-2SR Timer. My understanding is this timer will allow you to switch between 3 rpm settings that you set up with the Phoenix ESC in the "set RPM" mode. I'm bench running this combo with a APC 10X5E fan. My question is which governor mode should I be using ?

Dean, I guess you are telling me not to use the set RPM mode then. And I solved the how many magnet mystery. I believe it is a 12 pole mtr.

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #8 on:** April 29, 2011, 06:11:59 PM »

I checked out the Norm Whittle cookbook, and there are some similarities with by Phoenix 35, which is helpful. I'll keep playing with it and maybe even get to fly it next week. I was just looking for some guidance from you veteran E-flyers. Thanks to all for your comments.

John Cralley · « **Reply #9 on:** April 29, 2011, 07:44:54 PM »

Dan,

No, no!

If you have 12 sets of wire windings you have a 14 pole motor. Count the magnets NOT the wire windings!!! Fourteen poles is a pretty common number and I suspect that a 14 pole motor is what you have. I could be wrong but 12 is divisible by three and that sounds like windings!!!

John Hammonds · « **Reply #10 on:** April 30, 2011, 04:29:04 AM »

I agree with John, I run an "Emax 2815/09 1100kv" in a Ringmaster.

As far as I'm aware the Emax and Arrowind motors are the same beast, just with a different name. I have always assumed (But correct me if I'm wrong) that the pole count related to the magnets not the windings. Mine has 14 magnets and 12 windings and I have always (Rightly or wrongly) configured it as a 14 pole motor in my Phoenix set up.

TTFN
John.

William DeMauro · « **Reply #11 on:** April 30, 2011, 08:03:10 AM »

Dan,
With the timer you you have you can only run your motor in "set rpm" mode. If you want to run in Gov mode you need a timer that can operate in "Gov mode". The Hubin FM-7 and the FM-9 allows you to switch between Gov and Set RPM. The FM-7 with a switch on it and the FM-9 with a Prog Box. He also makes Gov only timers.

John Cralley · « **Reply #12 on:** April 30, 2011, 01:15:04 PM »

Dan,

William is right but the "set RPM mode" is a part of Governor Mode. It applies the governor function to whichever of the three RPMs that you select to use.

John

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #13 on:** April 30, 2011, 03:29:55 PM »

Well now that I'm totally confused, I think I will go back to glow engines.

William DeMauro · « **Reply #14 on:** April 30, 2011, 04:33:43 PM »

Dan,
It's really not that complicated. Both the "Set RPM" mode which is a part of Gov Mode and (for our purposes here) pure "gov mode" work very well. I used "set rpm" when I first started with ECL. Once I started using the FM-9 I found that I could rely on pure"gov mode for steady RPM and fine adjustments and found no reason to use "set rpm" any more. Don't get discouraged once you hook it up and do a test run or two it will all make sense.

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #15 on:** April 30, 2011, 04:58:17 PM »

OK John & William

I'll fly it 4 or 5 times and see what happens. Maybe I should get a different version Hubin timer. I'll investigate this option. I still need to verify if my motor is a 12 pole mtr. or not. To be continued.

John Cralley · « **Reply #16 on:** April 30, 2011, 07:43:18 PM »

Dan,

We told you that it is a 14 pole motor. At least we think it is a 14 pole so give that a try.

You have a Castle Link so that you can use a PC and their software to program the ESC. Right?? If so just unplug the timer and plug in the Castle link connected to a USB port. Then start their program and go to the "Control Line" option. See the screen shot of a Demo Mode Castle Link Governor Set RPM setup below. Enter the various additional parameters such as Brake, Cutoffs, as well as the RPM settings. When you are finished save it to a file so that you can return to it later if you want. It is also a good idea to print out the settings (see the other screen shot below). Save the settings to the ESC and shut the program down. Then reattach the timer and set it for a throttle setting of one of the following: between 0-50%, between 50-99% or 100% and plug in your battery. Start the timer and see what you get. Try each of the three RPMs and pick one of the three RPMs (by setting the throttle setting) that you think will be suitable and then go fly.

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #17 on:** May 01, 2011, 03:33:44 PM »

John

I'm with you, except I don't understand what you are saying "reattach the timer and set it for a throttle setting of one of the following: 0-50%, between 50-99% or 100%". I put in 9,000, 9,500, & 10,000 RPM in the ESC. When I run it and turn the pot on the timer I get a slight increase in RPM each turn. Is it 500 RPM each time ? I have not tached it so I don't really know what RPM the motor is turning, but it seems to be working correctly. However this is based on me telling the ESC that this motor is a 12 pole motor. I should have verification on this in the next few days.

John Cralley · « **Reply #18 on:** May 01, 2011, 04:42:02 PM »

Dan,

Yep, you have got it right. You should be able to change the RPM in three steps by turning the pot (at least during the first portion of the timing cycle). Will's info should tell you about this.

Don't have time to suggest now but you will want to set a few different settings as well as the RPMs (brake, cutoff, etc). I'll post some settings later or you can find suggestions in the Electric portion of Stunt Hanger. What battery are you using (3S or $S)??

John

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #19 on:** May 01, 2011, 06:36:22 PM »

John

I'm using a 4S2200 batt.. I have the brake set at 50% soft and a .6 sec. delay. The cuttoff is a hard cutoff. Also I have the voltage cutoff set at 3.4 volts per cell.

John Cralley · « **Reply #20 on:** May 01, 2011, 07:10:59 PM »

Dan,

OK so far. You can play around with the RPMs and Castle Link will flag any RPM that it does not deem suitable for Governor Mode. The data that you list could probably be improved. I think you will want a HARD Brake for instance. Below is a set of data from one of my Ringmasters (keep in mind that the motor is a 1050KV so the RPMs may not be what you want). The set of data listed is a starting point and others may/should chime in as to what they think is best for things like governor gain etc.

John

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #21 on:** May 02, 2011, 04:25:29 PM »

OK, It has been confirmed. My mtr. is in fact a 14 pole mtr.. I shall change my Castle-Link Program settings to 14 pole. John & John, you guys were right. Thanks for your input. I probably won't get to fly this bird for another week yet. I can't wait !