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Author Topic: Pathfinder setup  (Read 9855 times)

Offline John Rist

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Pathfinder setup
« on: October 22, 2016, 12:00:50 AM »
I am in the process of ordering the Brodak Pathfinder with the electric conversion option.

I plan to use a Cobra C-2826/10.  It will be swinging a APC 12x6-EP cut down to an 11x6 EP. It swings the 11x6 prop at set 10K rpm for 5 minutes on a 3000 4 cell lipo. Timer is KR. I am getting 5 minute flight times. This is the set up I plan to try because it works in my 576 Ringmaster.  Per the Brodak web site they recommend a Brodak 40 for the Pathfinder.  The speck for the Brodak 40 is 10500 rpm on a 10x5 prop.

Does this sound like a reasonable setup for a Pathfinder?   #^

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Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2016, 09:22:44 AM »
From what I hear about the 12-6EP, 10K will be too fast.  I think 8500 to 9000 would be close.  Maybe somebody who flies that prop will clarify what rpm its spinning. 

Also keep the weight under 54 oz. or you'll be running out of battery.  Flight times are more like 5 min 15 sec.
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2016, 11:55:27 AM »
From what I hear about the 12-6EP, 10K will be too fast.  I think 8500 to 9000 would be close.  Maybe somebody who flies that prop will clarify what rpm its spinning. 

Also keep the weight under 54 oz. or you'll be running out of battery.  Flight times are more like 5 min 15 sec.

You are probably correct on the RPMs.  The good news is that the KR timer is easy to set at the field.  I guess another question is about cutting down a 12" prop to 11"  This will change the tip shape.  Is this a big deal?
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2016, 01:57:46 PM »
This will change the tip shape.  Is this a big deal?

I have heard that this is the case, but I suspect it has more to do with efficiency than anything else.  I'd try to retain the shape as much as I could, just with a shortened prop.  There isn't  suitable 11" prop?
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Offline Target

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2016, 02:06:30 PM »
I'm using a 10 x 5 APC on my 4S 950Kv powered Oriental, weight 48oz.
The motor is a Rocket Exceed.
I have the KR timer set for about 5m20s.
I use about 1650ma of a 2100 pack.

Not sure if you need the 11" of prop, but you might try an APC 11 x5 or 11x 6 as a starting place, then go from there.
Regards,
Chris
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2016, 03:05:22 PM »
I'm using a 10 x 5 APC on my 4S 950Kv powered Oriental, weight 48oz.
The motor is a Rocket Exceed.
I have the KR timer set for about 5m20s.
I use about 1650ma of a 2100 pack.

Not sure if you need the 11" of prop, but you might try an APC 11 x5 or 11x 6 as a starting place, then go from there.

Sounds good.  When I get the Pathfinder going I will have to do a lot of prop tuning to get it right.  So far I have tried to stick to pusher props.  This limits the choices.  I guess I need to search Stunthangar to see what are the current thoughts regarding pusher props.
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Offline Target

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2016, 08:16:05 PM »
I would try the standard props first, for the purpose of just getting in the ballpark of diameter/pitch/amp draw.
After that if you really want to go to the left hand props, you could do that before tuning completely?

For my skill level, I don't feel the need to worry about the prop rotation yet. Maybe someday. Plus, there are more combinations in the standard props.
It seems that the left hand props have fallen out of favor with the upper skilled stunt pilots, if I recall correctly.
Still, best of luck and if the pusher prop works best for you, better yet!

I like the lines of the Pathfinder, but then again I like a LOT of that era stunt ships.

R,
Chris
Regards,
Chris
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Offline Horby

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2016, 11:03:18 AM »
I use 5s 3000mah, Arrowind 2820/07 motor with an APC 12-6 on 63' lines.  9700 rpm on the ground, 5min 30sec flight time at 5.1sec laps. My final rpm? No idea after the first flight I adjusted the rpm up or down by the number of button pushes on the programmer. (Using a KR timer) my model weight at 56oz. Hope this helps.


Warren

Offline John Rist

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2016, 07:26:33 PM »
I would try the standard props first, for the purpose of just getting in the ballpark of diameter/pitch/amp draw.
After that if you really want to go to the left hand props, you could do that before tuning completely?

For my skill level, I don't feel the need to worry about the prop rotation yet. Maybe someday. Plus, there are more combinations in the standard props.
It seems that the left hand props have fallen out of favor with the upper skilled stunt pilots, if I recall correctly.
Still, best of luck and if the pusher prop works best for you, better yet!

I like the lines of the Pathfinder, but then again I like a LOT of that era stunt ships.

R,
Chris

Chris -  I seem to remember numerous discussions that the the trade off between pusher and standard props are about even.   Being old I have forgotten the particulars.  The only reason I currently fly pusher props is that when I first started flying electric it was the "in thing".  Based on the fact that the gas world of stunt uses standard props I suspect that, at my skill level, I probable can not feel the difference.   I just need to find what works.   Of course the first step is to get my rear end in gear and build a Pathfinder. LL~
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Offline Martin Quartim

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2016, 08:55:52 PM »
I am planning to electrify a Pathfinder and  I am hopping a 2700 4S, Emax GT 2820 850kv, KR Timer and  APC 11x5.5 should work very well. It will be my first electric.

I have not purchase the batteries yet,  The 2700 4s is enough or should a get a 3000 4S?

Also i got an Emax GT 2826 710kv in case the GT2820 is not enough.

Martin




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Online Brent Williams

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2016, 09:14:06 PM »
I am planning to electrify a Pathfinder and  I am hopping a 2700 4S, Emax GT 2820 850kv, KR Timer and  APC 11x5.5 should work very well. It will be my first electric.

I have not purchase the batteries yet,  The 2700 4s is enough or should a get a 3000 4S?

Also i got an Emax GT 2826 710kv in case the GT2820 is not enough.

Martin

What is the ready to fly weight of that electric pathfinder setup?  I am interested in the same conversion and worry about batteries as well.

 
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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2016, 12:19:06 AM »
I am planning to electrify a Pathfinder and  I am hopping a 2700 4S, Emax GT 2820 850kv, KR Timer and  APC 11x5.5 should work very well. It will be my first electric.

I have not purchase the batteries yet,  The 2700 4s is enough or should a get a 3000 4S?

Also i got an Emax GT 2826 710kv in case the GT2820 is not enough.

Martin

Hi Martin,

The E-Max GT 2820/06 with 975 Kv will work with the 11 x 5.5 E prop on 4 cells. The 850 Kv motor will need more pitch or a bigger prop like the APC 12 x 6 which could work as the Pathfinder is a bigger model than most other .40 glow size stunters. It usually needs at least an OS LA .46 to fly it. The 710 Kv motor will need 5 cells. As to the size of battery, it all depends on the overall weight. If it weighs less than 50 oz. (1420 grams) then the 2700 mAh 4S battery should be fine. A weight of 1300 grams would be a great weight for the Pathfinder, but like I said, it is a bigger model, so that may prove difficult to achieve. If you are building one from scratch you can save a lot of weight up front, but if you are modifying an existing glow version then I would suggest removing the complete nose and building a new one that is more suited to e-power. I have photo's of one way to do this if you need them.

Keith R



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Offline Jim Mynes

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2016, 01:57:12 PM »
Keith, I'd like to see those pictures. Could you post them here?
I have seen the light, and it’s powered by a lipo.

Offline Tim Stagg

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2016, 03:40:41 PM »
John,

I flew my electric pathfinder for about 4 years...I finally sold it to a friend because I was just tired of flying it. It flew great with the following setup:

eflite 25, 870 KV
4 cell 3200 mah
castle 50 icelite or now the edge 50 speed control
Hubin FM9
12/6 APC pusher
RPM was around 8700 as I remember but that could be off a bit.

I had to add about 1.5 onces of tail weight to balance out the battery weight....if you move the battery back some you could most likely eliminate that.

I won multiple expert profile events with the airplane, again it flew great.
Tim Stagg

Offline Martin Quartim

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2016, 08:19:13 PM »
Old Enya's never die, they just run stronger!

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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2016, 12:12:02 AM »
Keith, I'd like to see those pictures. Could you post them here?

Hi Jim, I have a fairly simple e-nose construction that works well, and when a friend of mine wanted to convert his profile model I offered to do this for him. The model was powered by an OS LA .46 and had quit a few times inverted as you can see in the first photo. I sawed the nose off to get rid of all of the engine bearers and thick ply doublers. I then add 1/16" x 1/2" wide ply top and bottom and add balsa blocks to re-build the nose. The doublers in this case are hard 1/16" balsa although I have also used 1/16" lite ply as well. I tried to get the ply pieces more parallel but I could not get lower down into the old bearers without damaging more around the wing area. This makes for a nice strong nose and the ply also supports the two Velcro strips that hold the battery in.

Keith R
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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2016, 12:16:21 AM »
More pics..........
Keith R

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2016, 12:38:09 AM »
I added a cheek cowl on the inner side to cover up all the plumbing. This one was a bit "boxy" but it serves the purpose. I tested the system out first on my take-apart profile called Protron and it is still working well today after it was made some years ago. The cheek cowl looks a lot better on the Protron. I'm now building a flapless .40 size simple stunt trainer (SST) and it has the ply doublers. This may be a little better than the hard balsa but for a simple trainer that will have it's snout pranged off anyway, whether it's ply or balsa, this may be an overkill. You will also note that I did use a small bit of ply just below the wing on the Protron and that's for the undercart wire.

Keith R

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Online Howard Rush

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2016, 10:53:45 AM »
...my take-apart profile called Protron...

That sounds much more positive than the last airplane I saw you with.
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Offline Jim Mynes

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2016, 03:40:10 PM »
Thanks, Keith, it's always good to see others' building techniques. I'm going to adopt some of what you did in the Banshee I'm building. Probably skip sawing the nose off, though.
I have seen the light, and it’s powered by a lipo.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2016, 08:25:50 PM »
Keith,

Nice airfoils on both those models.

Charles
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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2016, 07:11:31 AM »
That sounds much more positive than the last airplane I saw you with.

Hi Howard, do you mean the "break-apart" model??  #^

Keith R
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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2016, 07:15:49 AM »
Thanks, Keith, it's always good to see others' building techniques. I'm going to adopt some of what you did in the Banshee I'm building. Probably skip sawing the nose off, though.

The sawing the nose off part was the fun part! I used my band saw!

Keith R
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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2016, 07:19:40 AM »
Keith,

Nice airfoils on both those models.

Charles

Hi Charles, I used Larry Cunningham's old Stunt Rib program to do those NACA airfoils. They seem to work well, but most likely Brett's "side of your favourite shoe" system will work just as well.  y1

Keith R
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Offline Target

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2016, 11:02:59 PM »
Hi Howard, do you mean the "break-apart" model??  #^

Keith R
I'm thinking Howard is referring to polarity.
Was the last plane called the "Electron" by chance??
Regards,
Chris
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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2016, 12:51:17 AM »
Hi Chris,

I guess that you're right! ;D My first venture in e-power was called Electron. Howard is so sharp! Based on the Electron I made a Profile ElecTron, hence the name Protron and not Proton. The next update was a New Electron which ended up as Newtron. Looks like I'm running out of "Trons" now!

Keith R
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Offline William DeMauro

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2016, 04:19:01 AM »
Looks like I'm running out of "Trons" now!

Keith R
If you build a larger version you could always call it Megatron!!
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Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2016, 06:52:57 AM »
Good one William.... y1
Keith R

Online Brent Williams

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2016, 09:59:23 AM »
Could a E-Flite Power 15 950kv,  4S 2700 battery, APC 11x5.5e prop be used in a reasonably light Pathfinder?  

48-52oz range, ready to fly w/battery.  I live at 4500ft elevation.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 12:34:22 PM by Brent Williams »
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Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2016, 03:41:16 PM »
Could a E-Flite Power 15 950kv,  4S 2700 battery, APC 11x5.5e prop be used in a reasonably light Pathfinder?  

48-52oz range, ready to fly w/battery.  I live at 4500ft elevation.

I seriously doubt it.
Crist
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Online Brent Williams

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2016, 04:59:08 PM »
Thanks Crist.  Is it a motor size concern, or battery capacity concern?

The specs for the Power 15 aren't that far off of the Emax GT2820/06 985kv that Keith Renecle mentioned earlier in this thread.  The weight, KV and other specs seem reasonably similar.  Just hoping for some education on part selection. 

The E-Max GT 2820/06 with 975 Kv will work with the 11 x 5.5 E prop on 4 cells.  If it weighs less than 50 oz. (1420 grams) then the 2700 mAh 4S battery should be fine. A weight of 1300 grams would be a great weight for the Pathfinder, but like I said, it is a bigger model, so that may prove difficult to achieve. If you are building one from scratch you can save a lot of weight up front, but if you are modifying an existing glow version then I would suggest removing the complete nose and building a new one that is more suited to e-power. (edited for clarity)

Keith R

Power 15
Size:   15-size
Bearings or Bushings:   One 5 x 14 x 5mm Bearing, and One 5 x 11 x 5mm Bearings
Wire Gauge:   16
Recommended Prop Range:   10x6–13x6.5
Voltage:   7.4–14.4V
RPM/Volt (Kv):   950
Resistance (Ri):   .03 ohms
Idle Current (Io):   2.00A @10V
Continuous Current:   34A
Maximum Burst Current:   42A (15 sec)
Cells:   8–12 Ni-MH/Ni-Cd or 3-4S Li-Po
Speed Control:   40–45A brushless
Weight:   152 g (5.4 oz)
Overall Diameter:   35mm (1.40 in)
Shaft Diameter:   5mm (.20 in)
Overall Length:   50mm (1.90 in)


Emax GT2820/06
Size:   15-size
Weight = 4.9 ounces (140 grams)
Diameter = 1.4 inch (35 mm)
Motor length = 1.7 inch (43.5 mm)
Shaft = 5mm x 0.9 inch
Full Shaft = 5mm x 64mm
Bearings:  5mm x 13mm x 4mm (front and rear)
Voltage = 6.0 - 17.0 volts (2, 3 or 4 cell Lipo)
Current = maximum of 40 amps or 570 watts for 30 seconds
KV = 985
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 05:45:18 PM by Brent Williams »
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Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2016, 05:16:32 PM »
yeah, Electron, negative charge,, Proton Positive charge,,

so next go with Positron,, its the  " counter" to an electron, same mass as an electron but positivly  charged,,
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Offline Crist Rigotti

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2016, 10:18:53 PM »
Brent,
I have used an Excel spreadsheet for years to determine what is needed for electric control line.  Here is a print out for a 50 ounce model, 2700ma 4S battery model.

Crist
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Offline Target

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2017, 10:27:30 PM »
Any progress, John?

R,
Chris
Regards,
Chris
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Offline Joe Yau

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2017, 07:33:31 AM »
I converted my .46LA  Pathfinder II to Electric a while ago with a Cobra 2826-12 Kv=760, Hubin FM-9, Phoenix 60 ESC, TP 5S 2700 25C Batt, and Igors 11x5C cf 3-blade.  works very well.

Offline Target

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2017, 09:15:00 AM »
I converted my .46LA  Pathfinder II to Electric a while ago with a Cobra 2826-12 Kv=760, Hubin FM-9, Phoenix 60 ESC, TP 5S 2700 25C Batt, and Igors 11x5C cf 3-blade.  works very well.
What's your rtf weight, Joe, and what did the plane weigh as a nitro version? I assume that it was kit built, not an arf, right?
Thanks,
Chris
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2017, 11:49:01 AM »
Any progress, John?

R,
Chris

Actually I didn't pull the trigger.  Right now I have on order a BuiltRight Flyright Sakitumi-E.  I understand that Walter is having some medical issues and it it may take awhile before he can cut and ship my kit.  y1
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Offline Joe Yau

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Re: Pathfinder setup
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2017, 12:48:44 PM »
What's your rtf weight, Joe, and what did the plane weigh as a nitro version? I assume that it was kit built, not an arf, right?
Thanks,
Chris

Yes, It was a kit built Pathfinder.  The nitro set up was a little lighter at 48 oz no fuel, and needs 4 1/2oz/flight.  The Electric set up is 44.5 oz no batt, and 55.5oz with batt.  But it does have more power then the .46LA..


« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 09:55:16 PM by Joe Yau »


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