Author Topic: Opps - Here comes trouble! (Read 4412 times)

bob branch · « **on:** October 13, 2011, 01:14:26 PM »

Details to follow

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #1 on:** October 13, 2011, 01:37:33 PM »

Hmmm.....another OTS electric airplane!

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #2 on:** October 13, 2011, 01:57:05 PM »

with that much offset, it MUST be a Bislob,, LOL

Wynn Robins · « **Reply #3 on:** October 13, 2011, 02:03:19 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on October 13, 2011, 01:57:05 PM

with that much offset, it MUST be a Bislob,, LOL

thats a Slob nose alright.......will be keen to hear how this one goes - how are you planning on controlling speed for hover etc?

Jeff Traxler · « **Reply #4 on:** October 13, 2011, 02:20:56 PM »

Bob,
I have an E-Slob in progress too!!I just got a new 3 line handle and bellcrank in the mail.I can start installing the controls.It is ready to cover I just needed the bellcrank to get the installation going but I still need a throttleable timer.Does Will make one???Hope to have it done real soon so maybe we can do some formation hovering!!!!Look out You Tube

LL~Let us know how it's going.Later,Jeff

bob branch · « **Reply #5 on:** October 13, 2011, 03:04:43 PM »

Well, indeed i is a slob. And I will have to admit, I have no idea how the heck I am going to make it work. Personally, I do not think it will. I have watched Frank Carlisle fly the glow version quite a bit. He is a real master with it. It really seems to be predicated on quite a 4-2 rpm difference. I don't know if w can achieve that much difference in electric with a governor, but I am going to try. Jeff is going 3rd line, that is not an option for me.I do not think I can fly the type of aerobatics the lob does with the line twist issues of a third line. But I'm just theorizing here. I fly 3D RC extensively and throttle changes there have to be very fast to do it. I do not think I could do it with a third line to deal with. I'm just not that coordinated.I'm going to set up with a Hubin timer, probably like a 6 or 7 series, not a digital system, at least to start. I still like the needle valve rpm adjustment on the outside of the plane for adjustment. Just a personal choice and I have the units doing nothing since all my competition stuff is digital.

I am starting with a turnigy G-15. Odd spec'd motor. Says its a .15 glow equivalent but its a 950 kv motor that weighs 6.3 oz. That is almost axi 2826 class weight. Anyway, I want to check out this new series of motors and see if it has any application for a stunter. This will let me test it with little at risk. ESC will be a phoenix 45 and I am starting with a MAS 10X6P prop. Hopefully I'll be able to enlist Frank Carslisle to test fly it since he can probably help me zero in on power changes more quickly that I can since I have to master the flying method yet. Also it will give him a chance to kill it. I killed one of his a few years back. Bought him a new one and had it sent to his house as a suprise. He didn't know and thought it was a contest prize from Brodaks and gave it away.

As you can see from the pic, the motor is in. I have reinforced the firewall with tri stock all around and to the crutch. Band saw took out the motor mounts forward of the firewall. The timer is mounted under the motor crutch in the lower fuse and the esc will be mounted in that area also. Battery will be arrowind 4s 2800 mah pack. Only had to open up the aft fuel tank bulkhead a bit to get it in. More pics as I move it along.

If anyone knows of any magic settings to get bigger boost in governor rpm please let me know. Governor Hi mode on the esc gives a bigger kick than fixed rpm so that is one. My guess is it will be a mater of finding a hover rpm and then working backwards from there.

bob branch

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #6 on:** October 13, 2011, 04:38:12 PM »

Electric Slob??? Oh the HUMANITY!

I do not think a throttle is needed. I plan on using a Hubin FM-0c in my Slob so it will compensate as the battery wears down.

Slob master John Paris used to set the Fox 35's so the slob sould just barely clib out of his hands - not a bad place to start. Have also seen MASTER Slob master Dan Banjock fly his Slob rather FAST and using the controls to stall at will but then achieving spectacular climb-out (by slob standards).

John Rist · « **Reply #7 on:** October 14, 2011, 02:09:24 AM »

I would go with a two insulated line setup and a Clancy control.
Clancy Arnold
Indianapolis, IN AMA 12560
U/Tronics Control (see vender's corner)

If you want fast changing two level setup it could be rigged with a couple of resistors (or trim pots) and a handle with a trigger switch. Pull the trigger and you get high motor setting - release and it goes to low setting. High and low could be adjusted to any level with the pots. A toggle switch on the handle could be rigged for motor on -off controll. If anyone is interested I could design the handle.

John Paris · « **Reply #8 on:** October 14, 2011, 07:51:26 AM »

Dennis,
Thank you for the title. Actually a model Slob flight consists of 3 stages. The first stage is at the beginning of the flight and is characterized by a gradual drop in altitude when in the hover position. This is where Frank and I like to play around with catch and release, but I need to be on my game as Frank has no room to correct for a miss on my part. Understand that I will take a broken tail over a prop to the hand any day. Stage 2 occurs after some of the fuel has burned off and the model does a true hover, neither climbing nor dropping. Some people like to call this the "Kite" stage. The last stage is when there is a slight climb of the model in the hover mode. You can do the long wing overs (be careful at the top though) and with a little elevator play can bring the airplane down for catches or touch and goes.

I have done my fair share of Slobbing and would welcome seeing a similar set of transitions through a flight. My guess is that a programmable speed control could simulate these phases with either a 3-step speed function based on time or a gradual increase over the length of the flight. While throttle control could do this, I have a personal preference for controlling the airplane through the transitions that naturally occur and finding a routine that fits. To be fair, I have not flown throttle and there may be some unique routines that could be done as well, so I look forward to see what my e-brothers bring to the circle.

One thing is for sure, while I like the smell and sound of my 35 stunt pulling my Slob around, cleaning it up is a pain in the arse. So bring on the technology and share the lessons. I have a country full of people over here who have not experienced Slobbing and I would like to give them something to shoot for.

John

bob branch · « **Reply #9 on:** October 14, 2011, 08:04:19 AM »

Hey John

Put some of your magic pressure on Frank to get him to test fly my version. You know how he hates to fly other peoples planes. Got to admit there is pause after what I did to his.

bob

John Rist · « **Reply #10 on:** October 14, 2011, 08:51:06 AM »

If you are looking for a quick and dirty solution go with a 2.4 GHz RC car transmitter. At $65 it is cheaper than an insulated line setup. Mount a bar to hold the up down lines and you are done. The receiver runs off of the airborne LiPo pack and the Tx takes 4 AA. Not legal for contest (yet) but works great for sport flying.

See:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXWRP3&P

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #11 on:** October 14, 2011, 11:54:39 AM »

get a hold of Clancy Arnold,, he markets a system that is great for throttle control and its intended for control line use

Jeff Traxler · « **Reply #12 on:** October 14, 2011, 12:26:37 PM »

Hey fellas,I just put in a call to Frank and got his answering macine but I told him to check this forum and weigh in.I hit as many of the TDM events that I could manage to fit in and spoke with him about my ideas for the 3 line system.He seamed to think it would work that way but I should really keep track of inside/outside manuvers and try to do the same amount of each.He then said to just put a Fox35 in it!!!He might be affraid of not having to clean up the slime

I suppose that I can only find out for sure by just trying the 3 line system.Since it is already paid for it is worth a try.If it fails to work up to expectations so what.If it does work I predict that "Pigs Do Fly".When I post the pics you will understand!!!
Jeff

bob branch · « **Reply #13 on:** October 16, 2011, 07:12:40 PM »

Well, the electric slob is done. I showed the business end early on. Battery goes in the fuel tank hatch and I put a dubro latch on the hatch to hold it down. I cut the bottom of the fues under the crutch open to reach the electronics and two half inch holes in the firewall to allow air in. The bottom holes sets air out along with the flap horn opening behind and under the wing. First flights will be this coming Friday weather permitting.

bob branch

Will Hubin · « **Reply #14 on:** October 16, 2011, 09:22:05 PM »

If it is of possible interest, I've made a throttle control, too, the TC-1a. It's based on insulated wires, a linear potentiometer on the handle that covers the range from off to full throttle with a throw of about 2 1/2 inches. I haven't flown with it but at least one scale person has.

Jeff Traxler · « **Reply #15 on:** October 17, 2011, 10:49:16 AM »

Slobbers,
I talked to Mr. Carlialse over the weekend and he seams to think the 2.4 car throttle would be better than the 3 line set-up.I found a cheapie on the Hobby King site for 19.95.It comes with the tx and rx and best of all it is at the US warehouse so shipping won't kill you.I have one on the way.If it don't work it's easier to throw away $20.00 than $65.00.Jeff

John Rist · « **Reply #16 on:** October 18, 2011, 07:18:07 AM »

Quote from: Jeff Traxler on October 17, 2011, 10:49:16 AM

Slobbers,
I talked to Mr. Carlialse over the weekend and he seams to think the 2.4 car throttle would be better than the 3 line set-up.I found a cheapie on the Hobby King site for 19.95.It comes with the tx and rx and best of all it is at the US warehouse so shipping won't kill you.I have one on the way.If it don't work it's easier to throw away $20.00 than $65.00.Jeff

I didn't realize 2.4 had gotten that cheep. Looks like a good choice. The only thing to look out for is because it is a car Tx it may have reverse. You push the trigger forward to back up and pull it to go forward. This means a released trigger is not at minimum pulse out. However most car Tx can be adjusted to have no-reverse. Also you may be able to play with this setup so that pushing the trigger forward arms the speed controller. Letting off of the trigger gives you the desired slower speed setting and pulling the trigger gives you high speed setting. At any rate I think the biggest problem is how to attach the lines to the Tx turning it into a handle. If you get a working setup please post pictures.

PerttiMe · « **Reply #17 on:** October 18, 2011, 07:49:54 AM »

... handle drawing stolen from Claus Maikis http://www.clacro.de/Seite_handle.htm :

Jeff Traxler · « **Reply #18 on:** October 29, 2011, 06:26:38 PM »

Hey fellas,I got the radio but have not had a chance to mess with it yet.It aint real fancy for the price but the reviews at hobby King are all good so I can't wait to try it out.I was working on my bottoms and one got a bit sub-terrainian so I have been rebuilding it for something to fly.I can put some time in on testing and I will post when I get something.
Hey Bob,It's been a couple weeks.How is yours working without the throttle???Jeff

Fred Cronenwett · « **Reply #19 on:** October 29, 2011, 09:21:39 PM »

The carrier guys are using 3-line handles for throttle, the trick is to put a Clancy Arnold single channel system on the airplane. The pushrod from the 3-line bellcrank moves the slide pot on the single channel controller which controls the speed control.

Or you can bypass the 3-line handle completely and use electronic controls and insulated lines, or like John suggested and go with the 2.4 Ghz setup since it not being used for competition.

After flying with electronic controls for the past 21 years it's the only way to go.

Electric power requires an electronic speed control and we have electronics already developed to control such speed controls. Yet folks are still trying to use the mechanical 3-line handle and bellcrank which was designed for a glow engine with a mechanical throttle linkage.

You have several choices to control the speed control for the electric motor:

1) Clancy arnold control system with 2 insulated lines
2) 2.4 Ghz radio with two normal lines
3) JR radio with DSC controls, again with 2 insulated lines (these are the old 72 mhz radios, see link to book below)
4) 3-line handle and bellcrank with electronic controls hooked to 3-line bellcrank pushrod to control the speed control

Either way you are going to be using electronic controls in the airplane or at the handle. The ESC does know what to do with a mechanical pushrod.

Since I have several JR radios that is what I use, but for new folks I would suggest clancy's system and bypass the 3-line handle and bellcrank.

This is a link to my book that I wrote 10 years ago on CL scale and electonic controls.

http://www.eicnetwork.com/eic/Scale.html

Land softly,
Fred Cronenwett

John Rist · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2012, 02:00:16 PM »

Haven't heard any more from the electric Slobbers. Has anyone had success?

chuck_b24 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 26, 2012, 10:19:38 AM »

whats the latest???

bob branch · « **Reply #22 on:** May 26, 2012, 04:52:30 PM »

Frank Carlisle won't let me kill.... er fly it till he tests it first.

bob branch

chuck_b24 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 10, 2012, 01:53:39 PM »

Well??? Is it DEAD YET*&$^#!^ I mean did you FLY IT YET?

chuck_b24 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 06, 2012, 07:32:54 PM »

OK BOB whats the scoop?

BTT

bob branch · « **Reply #25 on:** September 06, 2012, 08:04:35 PM »

Chuck

Sorry, but I have not been able to fly this year. My wife has been quite ill and was diagnosed with an aggressive lymphoma cancer in May after several months of thinking it was a drug resistant pneumonia. We were able to start her on chemo in time (just one or 2 days to spare according to the oncologists). It has been worth it though. Today we got results of mid treatment PET SCAN and the doctor said she was in complete remission! Praise God and thanks to all those who were praying. We are both still in shock from it, as was the oncologist. When God decides to do a miracle, God does a loozy! I doubt much that I will fly CL any this year but as her recovery goes on... she will still have an additional 6 weeks of chemo and then 6 weeks to the last PET SCAN where if she is found free of cancer she will be declared cured. But we are very encouraged today. If I get it up this year I will let you know, otherwise it will probably not fly til next year.

Thanks for asking,

bob branch

John Rist · « **Reply #26 on:** September 07, 2012, 08:43:40 AM »

Yes God is good!! We will pray for you. God's speedy return to the hobby.

Bill Little · « **Reply #27 on:** September 07, 2012, 10:23:47 AM »

HI Bob,

Your wife is still in my prayers. I go in a couple weeks to find out if I am cancer free, so tell her that it does come out alright! Just take good care of her while she is in chemo.

God Bless!
Bill

phil c · « **Reply #28 on:** September 07, 2012, 07:14:02 PM »

I've used the Hobby King Tx-Rx to control an electric CL plane(1/2) It works fine. I use a regular line setup and hold the transmitter in my left hand. Without a governor, a little less than full throttle and adjusted the speed with the throttle as the battery ran down. The run time came within 10 sec. of the calculated run time for the voltage/amps/batterMah calculation.

Just a note. The HobbyKing cheapies use GFSK frequency control. That means the transmitter and receiver pick a single quiet frequency(from about 200) during the binding process. This gives a small chance of interference from a FHSS 2.4GHz system, or another similar radio that picked the same frequency. Not really a practical problem though.

bob branch · « **Reply #29 on:** September 07, 2012, 09:39:45 PM »

Phil

I fly a lot of rc... mostly full zoot 3D and some pattern. I'd probably wind up programing the thing to hover on a switch and someone would get on my case if I did that.

Part of reason I am doing it this way is to try to learn some of the capabilities of the esc's at the extreme end of things. Since there is no one who is able to tell us the nitty gritty of what we are really working with from the manufacturing end it seems like a way to get more detail thru round a bout means. If you get a hover rpm setting let me know. Drop in a Eagle tree system or sacrafice and ICE to the project and get a plot for hover rpm on a given prop with your system... if you can do it before it fries itself with a prop strike.

bob

chuck_b24 · « **Reply #30 on:** December 10, 2012, 07:35:06 PM »

WELL

?? I am ready to start mine!!!

chuck_b24 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 19, 2013, 11:28:18 PM »

Did this fly OR is it DEAD?

??

bob branch · « **Reply #32 on:** September 20, 2013, 05:21:43 AM »

My wife has been sick with cancer and just came out of a stem cell transplant. I have not flown in 2 years since her illness. This plane is ready to fly but has not been flown to this date. I do not have any immediate plans.

bob branch

chuck_b24 · « **Reply #33 on:** September 21, 2013, 01:48:07 PM »

Quote from: bob branch on September 20, 2013, 05:21:43 AM

My wife has been sick with cancer and just came out of a stem cell transplant. I have not flown in 2 years since her illness. This plane is ready to fly but has not been flown to this date. I do not have any immediate plans.

bob branch

SORRY to hear that!! Hope she gets better!!! fly when you can!!!!