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Author Topic: Oh I Wish...  (Read 816 times)

Offline Tim Wescott

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Oh I Wish...
« on: November 15, 2011, 04:22:58 PM »
Tim's Dream ESC

Just like what CC sells, except a built in timer and a USB jack for programming, downloading logged data, etc. 

The timer because there's already a really smart processor in there, so why not use it for timing?  The USB jack for programming because it only one or two dollars to the bill of materials cost, and then you can talk to the ESC with nothing more than a cable, rather than needing a $$$ programming box.

But, it ain't gonna happen unless I build it myself, and I don't have any time...
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Oh I Wish...
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2011, 01:02:39 AM »
Why USB? I think programming by box which you can keep in pocket is much better solution.  ;D

Offline PerttiMe

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Re: Oh I Wish...
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2011, 01:59:55 AM »
USB doesn't care if the other end is plugged into a programming box or a laptop (or table top) computer.
I built a Blue Pants as a kid. Wish I still had it. Might even learn to fly it.

Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Oh I Wish...
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2011, 02:47:32 AM »
But small programming boxes usually do not support USB.

BTW Actual development direction is, that ESCs has two separate lines, one is classic PWM throttle line, can be combined with simple programming box and second is serial which can be either USB, extended programming box, or PC. That line can be used for settings and also data reading - either by programming box (little more $$$ than that small) or USB or it could be connected to r/c receiver and you can see data online or for later processing on "little more clever" prog box in the pocket  VD~

picture shows that prog box for online data display and it has also memory so you can make online aftre flight analyze and also see it later home on PC if I want

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Oh I Wish...
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2011, 08:38:47 AM »
So I need this proprietary programming box, that proprietary programming box, and if I change brands yet another proprietary programming box?  When I'm typing this on a laptop that would work just as well out in the field, and USB cables are ubiquitous and cheap?

I want the USB interface to save money.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline bob branch

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Re: Oh I Wish...
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2011, 05:30:49 PM »
Tim

I hear ya but don't forget you spent a lot of money for something to connect the USB cable to at the opposite end of the timer. Yea, I know , you had it already. ..... but you can't just ignore that cost if you are going to compare apples to apples.

bob
 S?P I know comparing apples to apples always makes me a pain in the a** ;)

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Oh I Wish...
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2011, 06:50:12 PM »
Tim

I hear ya but don't forget you spent a lot of money for something to connect the USB cable to at the opposite end of the timer. Yea, I know , you had it already. ..... but you can't just ignore that cost if you are going to compare apples to apples.

bob
 S?P I know comparing apples to apples always makes me a pain in the a** ;)
Well, it is my dream ESC.

I need to investigate if there are gizmos that let you connect a smart phone to a USB.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Larry Cunningham

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Re: Oh I Wish...
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2011, 11:35:41 PM »
USB - for all its seeming simplicity - plug and play and all, is a fairly stringent standard and requires far more logic than a simple serial interface, which can be duplex on a single pair of lines (old fashioned current loop). Supporting USB on the programmer end is not a big deal, where there is plenty of power and real estate and all, and you can use something like an Altera field programmable gate array with well designed interfaces immediately available.

The lowest power PIC controllers don't support USB, but there are some of the powerful versions which do. It's rather amazing what's available in a PIC device nowadays, and I would certainly choose one as the starting point for my own dream speed controller design.

In addition, it's great fun programming them in their little pico code assembler.. (Just kidding, you can program them in BASIC, or even C if you are into more pain.)

Although the primary ESC function seems simple enough, I suspect the true problem to solve is learning precisely what you WANT it to do for CL Stunt.

L.

"The older I grow the more I distrust the familiar doctrine that age brings wisdom." -H. L. Mencken
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Offline Igor Burger

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Re: Oh I Wish...
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2011, 12:33:45 AM »
I want the USB interface to save money.

Tim, I understand you. My point is, that it is simply not so practical and the cost is not so high. That box is simply terminal, so the program is always in the device you are controlling. So it works foall Jeti devices, also those not developed when you got the box, as well all our timers, actove controllers etc. So I have one box 6 years and nothing else. For example if I want tune the power, I simply set 1minute flight and I can directly modify parameters in the circle and do next start. We have 2 producers of usefull ESC here .. one is set by box and second by USB ... guess which all guys want  ;D

Offline John Rist

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Re: Oh I Wish...
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2011, 07:38:14 AM »
Don't forget we are a niche market.  Most of the stuff we use is adapted from the RC market.  A speed controller with a built in timer would be nice but development cost could not be justified for the control line market - even if it captured a 100% of the market.  Besides a separate timer, of the type already on the market, works great, works with any speed controller, and buying one supports some great control line folks.  At one time I considered marketing a throttle controll system for scale control line aircraft.  I even went so far as to design and build the prototypes.  However the cost to build small numbers priced me out of the market.  And now, a spread spectrum controller, designed for RC is close to being approved for control line use.  If this gets approved the existing systems, 3 line controllers and insulated line controllers, will cease to exist.  There is nothing new here - we have always relied on other markets for development of neat stuff.  25 years ago I raced RC cars.  All of the great batteries we used came from cordless tool industry - they were some strange new technology called NiCad.

 LL~  D>K
John Rist
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Oh I Wish...
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2011, 10:43:25 AM »
The lowest power PIC controllers don't support USB, but there are some of the powerful versions which do. It's rather amazing what's available in a PIC device nowadays, and I would certainly choose one as the starting point for my own dream speed controller design.

There are a number of parts these days that support USB -- not just PIC.

In addition, it's great fun programming them in their little pico code assembler.. (Just kidding, you can program them in BASIC, or even C if you are into more pain.)

The pain of maintaining code for a large project over the long term grows much faster for either assembler or BASIC, in my experience.  With C you get the kick in the shins at the start, then cruise from there.

Of course, I've been programming in C for $$ for over 20 years, now...

Although the primary ESC function seems simple enough, I suspect the true problem to solve is learning precisely what you WANT it to do for CL Stunt.

That's actually the unwritten part of my dream -- to have a controller where I have much more freedom to set things up.

Tim, I understand you. My point is, that it is simply not so practical and the cost is not so high. That box is simply terminal, so the program is always in the device you are controlling. So it works for all Jeti devices, also those not developed when you got the box, as well all our timers, active controllers etc. So I have one box 6 years and nothing else. For example if I want tune the power, I simply set 1minute flight and I can directly modify parameters in the circle and do next start. We have 2 producers of usefull ESC here .. one is set by box and second by USB ... guess which all guys want  ;D

Interesting points.  We don't have many locals flying electric CL; of the two that I've noticed personally, Paul Walker always shows up with an immaculate plane, fiddles with it not at all, and puts in an immaculate performance.  The other guy (whose name I can't remember, but he's a newbie to electric) sets his plane on the hood of his truck with his ESC, his timer, his programming box, his programming interface, and his laptop.  It looks like a gawdaful mess -- that was a good part of making me think of what would be ideal.

Of course, part of what I would do if it were me would be to have the controller look like a simple serial device, that talks human-readable text and understands the same.  Done right, you could either have one of those "user friendly" (read "we know more than you, neener") set up programs, or just a dumb terminal that lets you access everything that's available.

Now I'm thinking of how cheaply you could make a simple terminal box with a USB master in it, which would allow one to either use a PC or the terminal.

Don't forget we are a niche market.  Most of the stuff we use is adapted from the RC market.  A speed controller with a built in timer would be nice but development cost could not be justified for the control line market - even if it captured a 100% of the market. 
(snip)

John -- it's a dream.  I want Farrah Fawcett to come back to life, at age 30 or 40, and conceive a mad passion for me.  But I don't think that is going to happen (lucky for my marriage!).

Actually I'm thinking (well, dreaming, given the amount of spare time I have) of developing something just for me, releasing both the hardware and firmware under the GPL or other open-source licensing scheme, and worrying about what to do if someone else wants one when the time comes (probably sell or give away PC boards along with a note that says "good luck!").
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.


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