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Author Topic: Schulze 18.46 Trashed  (Read 636 times)

Offline frank williams

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Schulze 18.46 Trashed
« on: June 24, 2011, 06:09:37 PM »
Ok, I'm not really sure what happened, but for sure the ESC (Schulze 18.46) is toast.

Comming out of a hourglass (last corner) the plane sounded like it threw a blade.  A blurring sound for about a second and then the motor stopped.
 
Initial thought, at the field,  was that the shaft had slipped on the collett, due to the forces on the prop in the manuever,  causing a severe vibration that caused the shutdown of the system.

At home, switch out testing showed that the ESC was not working at all, kaput.  Everything else was ok.

I wonder now if the ESC just died and that is the sound that a dying ESC makes, like maybe pulses in the wrong sequence? or was it the slipping collett?

Any thoughts?

Offline Dennis Adamisin

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Re: Schulze 18.46 Trashed
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2011, 07:25:38 PM »
OUCH!

Does the motor have any signs of stress - evidence of loose collet, loose set screw, etc?  Did you get a strong vibration when it failed? 

Unlike IC a loose collet would not mean a run-away, you would just loose thrust until the prop came off! 

Was this a brand new ESC - was it past the crib death stage?

Are you sure it is the ESC and not the timer?  Norm Whittle recently had some current surges from his ICE50 wipe out his timer..?
Denny Adamisin
Fort Wayne, IN

As I've grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake!

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: Schulze 18.46 Trashed
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 08:02:08 PM »
Hi Frank,
Diagnosing by written decriptions of sounds is getting to be awfully common around here!
The "blurring" sound is almost certainly the sound of a missing or misfiring commutation sequence.
I've heard it before, but at 3 kiloWatts it's more of a Bar-ar-ar-ar-ar-appp!
This can happen because of a transistor failure, or when two of the motor wires short to each other, or if a motor-ESC connector on one of the three wires comes loose. (Don't ask how I know!)
The end result, whether caused by the ESC or wiring, is a fried ESC.

oh well,
    Dean P.
Dean Pappas

Offline frank williams

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Re: Schulze 18.46 Trashed
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2011, 09:18:52 PM »
Dennis, Dean
Thanks for the input.

Barr.ar.ar.ar.ar.ar.ar.ar.ar.arppp ..... that's it exactly.

One of the three wire connectors (bayonet type) from the Plent. to the ESC (the white one) was not really as snug a fit as the other two.  Actually, I had some concern about it, but it had been working for 60-80 flights.   However, after the incident, all wires were still plugged into the ESC.  I might try to fiddle with the connector to try to get a tighter fit.

There is some "burn" residue that has been developing around the rear bearing area of the motor.  You can see it through the openings in the motor.  I don't know if this is normal or not, but I have seen another motor with the same burn marks.

Thanks again,
Frank

Offline Darkstar1

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Re: Schulze 18.46 Trashed
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2011, 11:04:23 PM »
Dennis
Frank's collet was loose and the whole prop & spinner and all came off the first time it flew
In that case the motor kept running but I was able to open up the cowl and pull the arming plug.
After tightening things up things went back to normal. Looking back could have set up the ESC
failure?
 
Later,
Evolve or get left behind!

Offline frank williams

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Re: Schulze 18.46 Trashed
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2011, 10:41:34 AM »
All,
Well it did it again ... almost .....
Today, on about the third flight .... wind was up pretty good (15+) ... and the bottom corner of the square eight, (high load) the motor went .....
 ...........Bra..ar..ar..ar..ar..rap ..... for a second .... but this time it kept on running.
 ......is this the ESC not getting enought cooling? ...... is it because its the $80 18.46K?  ...... or is it something else?
It is obviously high manuever load related ... the ESC is being ask for more current ..... would a softer timing switch setting help?
Frank

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Schulze 18.46 Trashed
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2011, 11:11:07 AM »
What have you changed, what have you kept the same?  Obviously you've changed the ESC -- how about the motor, the connectors, the wires (yes, the wires -- you can get hidden breaks)?

You mentioned that one of your connectors was a bit loose, but that you reconnected it and it seemed fine -- did you replace that connector?

If you did replace connectors, did you replace all the connectors?  Did you change the brand of connectors?

Does the Schulze ESC let you read a post-mortem report?  There may be clues there.

Do the motor bearings feel good?  No grind when you turn the motor?  No wiggle when you push the prop shaft from side to side?  No end play when you pull and push on the prop?  The maneuvers were high load, but they were also high G and high rotation rate -- I'm wondering if you don't have a loose bearing that's causing an intermittent short in the motor.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline frank williams

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Re: Schulze 18.46 Trashed
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2011, 11:39:15 AM »
Tim
The only thing I changed from yesterday was the new ESC. ...... However, the motor, after the first flight, had a slight bind in it until it cooled down a bit.  The motor has always been warm to the touch, but not so hot your couldn't keep your finger on it.  I'll check all the wiring.
Frank

Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Schulze 18.46 Trashed
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2011, 04:41:59 PM »
"Slight bind until cooled" and "black crud around the rear bearing" add up to "trouble" to me.  I'm not sure what may be causing it -- but if your motor seized up in flight it wouldn't make life easy on the ESC.
AMA 64232

The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline frank williams

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Re: Schulze 18.46 Trashed
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2011, 05:37:38 PM »
Today was the first day that I had felt the tightness after the run.  You've got a good point, the motor might be the culprit here.
Frank.......bra..ra..ra..ra..ra..rappp


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