So you get 12200 RPM with an RC setup and the ESC in it's "default setting", then you change two things, and get 10000 RPM with the timer and the ESC set to governor mode.

What do you get with the ESC in governor mode and the RC setup?  Or the ESC in its default setting and the timer?

Teo,
I've run into the same problem with my twins.  Castle told me that there is nothing to lower the rpm at which they'll govern.  I found two solutions:  1.  Go to a very low pitched prop.  A 4" pitch prop worked for my twins, a 5" pitch did not.  2.  Replace the Talon 35 with a Jeti 33.  The Jeti doesn't seem to have this problem, or at least, it occurs at a much lower rpm.
I'm using 6s batteries, which may exacerbate the problem.  A 5" prop may work with the 4s system.
Rick

These would be my initial settings. I would not use set rpm. I would use those settings and put a small prop on it and set the rpm with the pot. The small prop (6" for example) keeps the motor from loading up while setting the rpm. Once I had that set I would switch to my "fly" prop. Now I have not used a talon but I'm pretty sure that it would mirror other castle speed controls that I have used.

Hello Guys,

I did a little more experimenting today but it still does not want to govern properly about 10K RPM:

1) ESC defaulted to standard mode, used the pot to set the desired RPM.  On the timer alone it does not hold RPM well, although it takes small steps over time to increase the throttle it is not enough to keep the RPM constant.  The RPM would probably vary widely in flight due to loading and unloading when flying maneuvers.  No go.

2)  Saving the same pot position, took at look at high and low governing.  The RPM still peaked over 12K on high governing but it was slightly lower than 6.5K on low governing so the throttle did appear to affect RPM in the low governing mode.  The problem is, the max it will reach is 6.5K when full throttle is applied (looking for 10.2 K)

3) Changing the PMW did not really affect the RPM although the motor did become screechy if set too low (12 khz seems to be about right)

4) Since I can control the RPM when using the "SET RPM" mode if under 10K I switched the prop from a 10x5 to a 10x5.5.  The motor seems OK at 9.5K RPM and I will just go fly and see what happens.  I wanted the 10x5 prop because I thought it would provide more "excess power".

Dennis - My first attempts at E-stunt were using higher pitched props.  This was based on my R/C experience.  What I have come to realize is that it does not work as well as a lower pitched prop.  The closest thing that I can come to a real world comparison would be the difference between a climb and cruise prop on a full scale plane.  In our case we want to have excess power in level flight since we do not have the benefit of a throttle so E-stunt uses more of a "climb prop".  Normal R/C would be closer to a "cruise prop". The way I think about power is that we roughly use pitch to get the lap times we want and then adjust the prop diameter to get the power we need.  For example, a 10x5 or 11x5 would be spinning at roughly the same RPM to achieve a 5.0 second lap time everything being equal, but the power input will be significantly different.  If we pull into a loop, provided the RPM remains constant, the 11x5 prop will make more power and probably fly the maneuver better.  The prop diameter in some respect is determined by the size and weight of the plane.  Say a 10" prop might be great for a 2lb model but a 3lb model would prefer the 11" prop.

I have a rather ugly SIG Fazer which I modified quite a bit for C/L.  Most people would not recognize it.  It currently flies on 6S using a 13x6.5 prop and it is a decent flier for what it is.  The typical lap times run are in the 5.4 second range and it has enough power to fly through the hourglass which I consider to be the most power hungry maneuver.  On 62'6" lines which translates into a 67' foot circle from the top of my head to the propeller spinner and it equates to  53 mph in level flight.   Using a 13x8 prop on the same set-up gave me a very efficient cruise but the model struggled through the hourglass.  In both cases the lap times were very close.  You can certainly feel the difference in power and that was what changed my thinking.

At any rate, we will see how the little Shark 402 does on the new set-up with the 10x5.5 prop (33 oz ready to go, longer and deeper fuse to accommodate electric and keep the CG, flaps and a normal landing gear).

Thanks,

Teo

All the above problems is why I like the KR timer.  It has active RPM control that adds power on the up hill part of the maneuver.  It decreases power on the down hill leg.  Also it works with most cheep ESC.  The only down side is you have to hook up a wire from the KR timer to one of the motor leads.  So far all of mine have been trouble free, that is so far.        

Hi -

Meant to reply yesterday but ran out of time. I did a little experiment to see if the inability of the ESC to go over 10K RPM was unique to the Talon or if it affected the ICE series as well.  I swapped props on the Fazer and put a 12x5 and asked the ESC for 10.5K RMP and I got it.  The programing of the ICE is basically the same as the Talon; however, it is possible that I am not using the best approach (user error is highly probable when I am involved).  It could also be that I do not have enough headroom between the max RPM and the RPM requested.  Not sure.  At any rate, for the Shark I opted to go with a 10x5.5 prop and we will see how it goes.

I have enclosed a photo of the Fazer, as you can see it looks nothing like the original model.  The flaps are of narrower cord, the wing includes rounded tips, lengthened the fuselage a bit and re-did the tail altogether.  It flies reasonably well although it is a little heavy at 60 oz. 425 watts of static power on 6S turning a 13x6.5 prop at 8300 RPM. Lap times in the 5.3-5.4 second range on a 67' circle (spinner to my head).  Trying to fly the outside square loop while flying 4.6 sec laps like Dennis does would result in one corner followed by a fence post landing....Just too fast for me.

The other photo I posted is one of my phone next to the Castle B-link.  This is one of the reasons I use Castle; I can easily update the programing at the field without having to use a laptop.  If you use the ICE series or its current incarnation it also allows for data logging which I have found to be extremely useful.  Never used it on my R/C model but in C/L I was constantly downloading the data as I tried different props and RPM settings.  It helped find the best balance between power and duration.

I also use Jetti, particularly on the 2M Pattern model.  That model has a Plattenberg and it seems that European ESC communicate more effective with European motors and US made ESC do. I also have a Jetti box which I use to program that ESC.

Thanks,

Teo

Well, I did a little more experimenting and it appears that the issue is the timer, but not in an obvious way.  For the Talon ESC, in order to go beyond 10K RPM it needs to be run using governor high.  This setting does require a throttle signal capable of delivering the RPM.  Although you have the option of entering the desired RPM what really determines the RPM is the throttle input.  Entering the desired RPM results in the ESC suggesting the throttle setting (using the Castle link on a computer) needed to achieve the RPM.

As it turns out to achieve 10.2K RPM the throttle signal needs to be about 47% of full throttle so I set about to play with the power pot (i.e. throttle setting on the timer).  The lowest RPM I could achieve was 11K RPM with the pot set-up to provide what I thought was no throttle signal.  At this point I was confused so I connected a servo to the timer to see what kind of travel it generated as I adjusted the power pot.  When you first start the timer it generates no signal; however, once its starts, it appears that its signal ranges  somewhere between 55% at low throttle to 100% full throttle.  In essence, you cannot generate a throttle signal under 55%.  Now it made sense, the 55% is greater than the 47% needed to achieve 10.2 K RMP and hence why I kept getting 11K RPM.

So the conclusion is that if using the Brodak Clown timer and Castle ESC you can govern up to 10K RPM using the set RPM governor and 11K RPM and above if using the governor high option.  I have a more expensive version of the timer that I want to try out to see if it has the same limitations. 

Live and learn,

Teo

Which model of the Hubin timers are you using?

At the time those timers were being designed, Castle's latest ESC designs were Ice, Edge and Phoenix. Talon did not exist then. So Will Hubin has implemented RPM mapping accordingly.
A year or two ago, I brought his attention to the discrepancy between older and newer Castle ESC RPM maps, and he created a new firmware and released an upgrade chip for hus programmers. However, I'm afraid this does not apply to the simpler pot-operated timers, only the FM-9 series.

Yep, about 250-300 discrepancy sounds about right. Also known as a Phoenix-Talon dichotomy in the quantum physics books 😉