Author Topic: New Indoor GeeBee from Tania Uzunova (Read 1993 times)

Andrew Borgogna · « **on:** May 19, 2013, 01:59:54 PM »

Just finishing up my new indoor electric control line stunter. You should all know this plane from other threads but the design is from Igor Burger and the kit is from Tania Uzenova. I want to thank them both for their help in getting this project off the ground and through completion. Without Tania's work to produce this kit and Igor's help during the build it could not have happened.

My cat Benson performed his required Cat Scan and pronounced the plane ready to fly. Well the battery does need to be secured and the timer/governor does need to be set up but it should get into the air tomorrow, fingers crossed.
Andy

Tania Uzunova · « **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2013, 02:32:11 AM »

Thanks for kind words Andy : )) I will wait for video to see practical part

))and just a small note : Tania Uzenova ? - Must be TANIA UZUNOVA : )

Andrew Borgogna · « **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2013, 08:46:32 AM »

Sorry for getting the name wrong Tania, I will not make that mistake again.

Andhy

Igor Burger · « **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2013, 09:13:26 AM »

yes Andhy, never change woman name ... it is danger

ighor

Matt Colan · « **Reply #4 on:** May 20, 2013, 09:35:54 AM »

I gotta build me one of these! It looks so cool!!!

Andrew Borgogna · « **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2013, 05:10:39 PM »

Well I flew it today and things went quite well. The first problem I had was somebody at the church strung ropes across the ceiling in the gym which made it too dangerous to do overhead maneuvers. But I did do some testing of vertical climb to near the top of a wing over and it seemed to do well. I remember a comment Igor made some time ago about flying this plane indoors. He said something like "pull the nose up and have faith it will make it." I remembered that Igor and my faith is getting stronger. The other problem I had was efficiency of the motor I was using. It just cooked off to much energy in the form of heat. The motor got way too hot, even the battery connector got warm. The short of it is using the current motor I will never get the pattern in on 2S 800mha battery. As luck would have it when I got home my wife informed me that the motor I ordered for the Gee Bee had arrived. It very closely matches the parameters Igor gave me, so a motor transplant is next. The KR timer/governor with the new pushbutton on switch and the new firmware for low RPM operation worked quite well. There was some early on hunting but after couple of laps the motor settled down and remained constant. I think I will take the gain down from 4 to 3 for the next test set of test flights that should help reduce the hunting. One last thing when my Gee Bee signals end of flight it is time to get very close to the floor. With all the drag from the air dams on the wings and the wing support struts and the high right yaw from the lead out position this plane comes down in a big hurry. The glide ration is a bit steep!

Anyway, I will have some pictures and a short video as soon as Larry Renger emails them to me. When I get them I will post them here.
Andy

Igor Burger · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2013, 12:43:25 AM »

So you learned vertical landings

Yes, it is difficult to whip and if you do not, it lands from level on 2 or 3 meters :- ))) but do not worry, you will learn it soon. I can even whip it from ground to level without motor, but it means to run on diameter almost line length, so I do not know if I can call it flight :- )))) ... some guys want powered landings in rules

and yes, proper motor is the key, those small motors are normally not able to handle such large prop.

Robert-Jan · « **Reply #7 on:** May 21, 2013, 05:32:59 AM »

Andy

What motor are you using?

Greetings Robert-Jan

Andrew Borgogna · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2013, 12:06:28 PM »

The motor is a Turnigy ?, I don't know model. It was something I got a while back. The new motor that I purchased for the Gee Bee does not appear to have a prop mount that can handle the large prop. So I am going to make a trip to my local hobby shop and talk this over with a friend who work there.

Igor, what motor are you using on your plane. I may have to order one if I can't find a suitable motor here. Oh and Igor, thanks for the heads up on landing this plane. Like I said, when the motor signals end of flight get real close to the floor.

Igor Burger · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2013, 12:54:24 PM »

we use emax CF2822 for simple power train with 1200rpm/V and I think 180mohm 40g heavy

and custom made 60W motor with 1400rpm/V and 150mohm with active timer ... it weghts 32g

Andrew Borgogna · « **Reply #10 on:** May 23, 2013, 06:52:47 PM »

Well the motor transplant is complete. I installed a Rimfire-300 below is the specs for the motor and it matches up fairly well with Igor's suggestions. In the prop suggestion the 10x4.5 is called out and initial bench testing showed much greater efficiency that the previous motor. The previous motor had extremely strong cogging, it was not rubbing but it was resistant to turning over. Way too much energy was being wasted making heat with the previous motor, after a fight the motor was too hot to touch. The battery connector was also very warm, I have since switched to a Deans connector.

I believe I can get the compete pattern in with the 800mha 2 cell battery. I also am exploring using a three cell battery but that will wait until I have explored all possibilities with the 2 cell battery.
Andy

   Motor Diameter: 1.1" (28mm)
   Motor Length: .87" (22mm)
   Shaft Diameter: .12" (3mm)
   Shaft Length: .47" (12mm)
   Kv Rating: 1380 rpm/V
   Weight: .95oz (27g)
   Input Voltage: 7.4-11.1V (2-3S LiPo)
   Max. Constant Current: 9A
   Max Surge Current: 13.5A
   Max Constant Watts: 100W
   Burst Watts: 150W
   No Load Current: .4A
   Suggested Prop Sizes: 8x4 - 10x4.5 slow flyer

Juan Carlos Pesce · « **Reply #11 on:** May 23, 2013, 09:44:41 PM »

Hi Andy,
can you tell us the complete model set-up? Thanks in advance.
Regards

Juan Carlos Pesce
Buenos Aires
Argentina

Andrew Borgogna · « **Reply #12 on:** May 25, 2013, 10:28:43 AM »

Hi Juan
Yesterday I had a bad problem with the Rimfire 300 motor. After the installation was complete I started to do the KR timer/governor setup. This include flight time, start up delay, vari-gain boost, and motor RPM. I bench ran the motor with both the two and three cell battery and it achieved the 4400 PRM that Igor suggested with no problem. But when I tried to set the RPM with the timer/governor I could not achieve 4400 RPM on 2 cells. I had no problem getting 4400 RPM with the previous motor and on the bench I had no problem. In fact the pulse monitor showed I was in the middle of the throttle parameter at 4400 RPM. Anyway I replaced the 2 cell battery with the 3 cell battery and was able to adjust the revs up to the 4400 RPM but after a few seconds the motor smoked. I can see a burned stator wire on one of the polls. So the Rimfire motor is ruined. I had a spare Arrowind 2210-25 with a kv of 1560. It was a simple swap and the motor setup went well. This motor is about .4 ounces heavier(not good) but it runs without burning wires. It will remain to be seen how it flys.

So to answer your question the current setup is:
Arrowwind 2210-25 motor
KR timer/governor 4 min. flight time, 10 second startup delay, vari-gain set at 3 and revs at 4400RPM
Battery 2 cell 800mha
Castle Creation 18 amp ESC, the next smaller size was 10 amps and I was a little unsure of that size.

Anyway maybe I will get to fly it again next Monday and I will report.
Andy

Igor Burger · « **Reply #13 on:** May 25, 2013, 11:04:17 AM »

Hello Andy,

27g motor simply cannot give such power, I am sure that internal resistence was so high that it simply cannot reach on 2 cells those RPM, and using 3 cells must waste power on its resistance instead spinning prop. Motor for those models shoud be somewhere in range 150-180 mohm. Bestmotor I know is our special custom made with 1400rpm/v 150 mohm and 32g ... another easy to get option is that emax but it is 40g heavy, however it is only slightly warm after flight. I think Tania sales also complete tested setups.

Andrew Borgogna · « **Reply #14 on:** May 25, 2013, 11:35:19 AM »

Igor
You are right Igor, but someone needs to tell Rimfire that. They claim a max "constant" power of 100W. I was nowhere near 100 watts when it went up in smoke. When I did the bench testing I must have misread the RPM while testing on the 2 cell battery but I sure seem to remember it being 4400 RPM.

Thanks for your input. I would be interested to know what motor you rewind to make your custom motor. Also wire gauge and number of windings per pole. This something that is within my skill set. I use to rewind my slot track car motors and they always seem to work better.
Andy

Igor Burger · « **Reply #15 on:** May 25, 2013, 12:25:57 PM »

I do not know, may be Rimfire can absorb that input power, but probably not at hight current, instead of that at high rpm and low torque (means low current), but we are fixed to 4400rpm because of prop, so higher voltage will push it to even worse efficiency what means more loses at the same outp power, and it means burning. Those small motors are overloaded with that large 10" prop and simply most important property is resistance. Try to measure your motor, you will see how it stands compared to those 2 mentioned. If it is 180 and more, it is already too much.

We need as strong magnets as possible. It will allow low number of windings what means thicker and shorter wire (at the same coper filling) and thus low resistance. Such motor has usually higher no load current, but that combination leads to best efficiency at low rpm and large current (means large torque), exactly what we need for this type of flight. And that our motor has also little larger diameter what also leads tower number of windings, while Emax needs to be longer ... I will do pictures

Igor Burger · « **Reply #16 on:** May 25, 2013, 12:44:13 PM »

Here are both motors, left is our 32g motor and right is Emax. You can see much larger magnets for high torque motor. Emax is still usefull only because the stator is longer then that our, but it costs little extra weight, but I think any motor 30g or less does not have good chance.

Ruler is in cm

Andrew Borgogna · « **Reply #17 on:** May 26, 2013, 10:39:54 AM »

Igor
I can't make out the model number on the E-Max motor, can you please give me the model information.
Andy

I did some investigating and found the following Emax motor. Is this what you are using.
http://www.valuehobby.com/power-systems/brushless-motors/outrunner-airplane/emax-cf2822-outrunner.html

Igor Burger · « **Reply #18 on:** May 26, 2013, 01:02:03 PM »

Yes, exactly, CF2822 is what you need for constant RPM setup

. Most of our guys fly that with success.

Andrew Borgogna · « **Reply #19 on:** May 26, 2013, 01:16:42 PM »

Thanks again Igor, you are a friend!

Andy