Author Topic: New Fun Ride (Read 3878 times)

jfv · « **on:** July 19, 2012, 11:55:55 AM »

Thought I’d show off my new fun ride I just finished. Plan on maidening it this weekend. 45” span. Setup is a RimFire 15, Phoenix 45, Hubin FM-9, with a 3S-2600 mAh battery. Prop for now is an Areonaut 10x6 Glas Elektro because I don’t have any pushers available. RTF weight is 38 oz. A bit on the heavy side but we’ll see how it goes. I did install Vortex Generators per PJ’s recommendation. Hope that helps.

I’m generally not a fan of all those wires sticking out on an electric profile so I tried to clean up the electronics arrangement. I’m real happy with the results. The ESC and timer are covered by a thin fiberglass hatch and I modified an ArmSafe arming plug to take the male plug that comes off the ESC. Battery plugs directly into this fuse mounted plug.

Wynn Robins · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2012, 02:15:19 PM »

that is one NEAT installation - LOVE it!!!!!

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2012, 05:35:44 PM »

Very, very nice. I like it a bunch !

Dan

jfv · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2012, 05:57:21 PM »

Thanks. Designing and building is almost as much fun as flying.

Robert Redmon · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2012, 06:08:47 PM »

Very nice! Thanks for sharing!

Bob

ray copeland · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2012, 07:18:34 PM »

Jim, that is one great looking ride!! Great job, i know a lot of time and thought had to go into the finished product, nice!!

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2012, 07:44:11 PM »

Look forward to the flight results.

VG's are like sealing the Hingelines - they help but only if the model is solid to start with - Yours looks sweet.

Nice installation also.

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2012, 09:05:59 PM »

Very nicely done.

linheart smith · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2012, 04:42:52 AM »

Yummy.

Linheart

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2012, 05:54:08 AM »

VERY NICE, looks squeaky clean. You even color matched the battery straps!

Hmmm, I wonder if the next step is new shrink wrap for our packs so the colors match our trim schemes?

Crist Rigotti · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2012, 05:57:12 AM »

Quote from: Dennis Adamisin on July 20, 2012, 05:54:08 AM

VERY NICE, looks squeaky clean. You even color matched the battery straps!

Hmmm, I wonder if the next step is new shrink wrap for our packs so the colors match our trim schemes?

Yeah, the guys sick!

jfv · « **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2012, 06:25:16 AM »

I’m almost embarrassed to say this but the battery does match, although by accident. I originally designed for a 4S setup with a Scorpion motor but it came out nose heavy and because of the weight, I opted for the lighter RimFire motor that was better suited for 3S. Batteries that were available were red. How lucky can you get.

bob branch · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2012, 06:42:31 AM »

Jim
A very nice piece of work!

I like the electronics install and detail of the electronics bay. I think profiles can be just as innovative as full fuse planes, maybe even more so.

Kudos,

bob branch

jfv · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2012, 06:55:17 AM »

Thanks Bob. My favorite part is the battery plug. Serves as both the battery connector and an arming plug that only requires one hand to disconnect.

bob branch · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2012, 07:03:53 AM »

I like that very much also Jim. Don't mind me but that is going to get copied.

bob branch

jfv · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2012, 07:14:11 AM »

Highest form of flattery. All I did was extend the back end of the Deans plug with JB Weld Kwik after the wires were soldered on and shrinked wrapped. This gives something for the set screws that hold the Deans in place to grab. Once the JB Weld set up I shaped it to match the outside shape of the Deans.

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2012, 12:03:52 PM »

Yes that battery plug is nifty. I could see using it on a full fuse with internal plug also, to keep the plug easily accessible. PLUS a arming plug on the outside...

bob branch · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2012, 12:10:57 PM »

Jim
Anyone can do something in a complex manner. True inspiration is to do something simply.

bob branch

jfv · « **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2012, 07:34:34 PM »

Dennis:

The internal plug concept actually is quite practical. I have used a multiple plug setup on one of my RC planes. It connects four, 4 cell battery packs in both parallel and series to make an 8S2P pack (see photo). I might try it on my next full fuse stunt plane.

Ty:

Yes, I have plans for the plane but I need to make sure it flies the way I want it before I give them out.

Thanks again for all the great feedback. I'm just getting back into stunt after a very long hiatus.

Jim Howell · « **Reply #19 on:** July 21, 2012, 09:54:30 AM »

Jim,

VERY nice! I have a question based on the pic you posted showing the red battery pack on the side. It almost appears to me that you have some screening behind the motor, as if you have set up an inlet for air coming into the electronics bay. If not, how are you getting cooling air into the ESC area?

Jim Howell
Huntsville, AL

jfv · « **Reply #20 on:** July 21, 2012, 02:25:57 PM »

Jim:

It's not screening. It's a opening in the side of the hatch that allows air to enter the electronics bay. I'm thinking there will a pressure differential between the air behind the motor and the air flowing over the holes in the lower side of the hatch that will promote air flow through the hatch. Time will tell.

Jim Howell · « **Reply #21 on:** July 21, 2012, 03:19:36 PM »

Quote from: jfv on July 21, 2012, 02:25:57 PM

Jim:

It's not screening. It's a opening in the side of the hatch that allows air to enter the electronics bay. I'm thinking there will a pressure differential between the air behind the motor and the air flowing over the holes in the lower side of the hatch that will promote air flow through the hatch. Time will tell.

Jim,
Thanks for the clarification. I had seen the holes in the lower rear part of the hatch and had assumed that they were intended to be outlets for hot are. But I couldn't make out how the inlet might be working. Thanks for posting the pic of the front part of the hatch. I had wondered if the front part was "permanently" attached, or if it, too, could be removed.
Thanks,

bob branch · « **Reply #22 on:** July 21, 2012, 04:04:45 PM »

Detail oriented little group aren't we?

bob branch

jfv · « **Reply #23 on:** July 21, 2012, 07:40:39 PM »

As my daddy taught me years ago, "life is a detail sport."

john e. holliday · « **Reply #24 on:** July 22, 2012, 08:06:47 AM »

That has to be one of the neatest set ups to date, that I have seen. The plane looks great and should fly well.

Jim Howell · « **Reply #25 on:** July 22, 2012, 03:47:27 PM »

Jim,
Can you tell me/us what you did to create the left side of the fuse? You've told us that the hatch portion of the middle part is a fiberglass shell. How about the front portion, and the rear portion? As best I can discern from your pics, I'm guessing that the front portion is also a fiberglass shell. It clearly morphs into the back side of the nose ring and spinner backing plate. The rear section,..., I'm inclined to guess that is shaped balsa since it has to work around the wing/fuse joint. But it is clear that your glass work is really high quality, so you are probably quite capable of feats of craftmanship that I would run away from. I would also be interested in knowing how you formed the glass shell for the hatch.
Thanks for raising the bar on approaches to the electric installation.

jfv · « **Reply #26 on:** July 22, 2012, 09:04:08 PM »

Quote from: Jim Howell on July 22, 2012, 03:47:27 PM

Jim,
Can you tell me/us what you did to create the left side of the fuse? You've told us that the hatch portion of the middle part is a fiberglass shell. How about the front portion, and the rear portion? As best I can discern from your pics, I'm guessing that the front portion is also a fiberglass shell. It clearly morphs into the back side of the nose ring and spinner backing plate. The rear section,..., I'm inclined to guess that is shaped balsa since it has to work around the wing/fuse joint. But it is clear that your glass work is really high quality, so you are probably quite capable of feats of craftmanship that I would run away from. I would also be interested in knowing how you formed the glass shell for the hatch.
Thanks for raising the bar on approaches to the electric installation.

Jim:

The left side of the fuselage is shaped balsa blocks with a fiberglass shell as the center section. The construction is quite simple, so don't be afraid of giving it a try. The front and rear blocks were glued in place and a hatch frame constructed between the 2 blocks. The hatch frame has a top and bottom rail made from 1/32" ply and a front and rear former made from 1/16" balsa. A foam block was fit between the hatch formers and the rough hatch assembly was then secured to the fuselage between the front and rear blocks with double back tape. You need to put wax paper between the blocks and the hatch formers to keep the glassing epoxy from gluing them together. Once all blocks were in place the nose section was shaped and sanded and then covered with 2 layers of 1.4 oz glass cloth using laminating resin. When the resin was cured, I cut the hatch out along the joint lines using a fine tooth Exacto saw blade. I then went on to sand and prime the fuselage including the hatch getting it ready for color. Before putting on the color coats, I cut the vent holes and removed the foam from inside the hatch. The result is a clean front end with a perfectly fitting, light weight (8.5 gram) hatch.

jfv · « **Reply #27 on:** July 22, 2012, 09:26:59 PM »

Well the Spyder has flown. As expected, the excess weight turned out to be an issue and on the first few test flights the rounds were fine but it would stall on a sharp corner especially on the last corner of the triangle. After several flights I added another set of vortex generators towards the wing tips and it totally changed the way the plane flew. While I can still stall the plane on full control deflection (which is not needed), the stall is nowhere near as abrupt and the plane now has a corner. With some further trimming it is going to be a great little fun flyer. I have to say that PJ's vortex generators are the real deal. (Thanks PJ for saving my plane.) My only issue with the VG's is that they are delicate and are easily knocked off so the plane has to be handled very carefully. At least I don't have to wipe off any fuel residue.

Jim Howell · « **Reply #28 on:** July 23, 2012, 03:34:56 PM »

Quote from: jfv on July 22, 2012, 09:04:08 PM

...... The result is a clean front end with a perfectly fitting, light weight (8.5 gram) hatch.

Jim,

Got it. Thank you for the very clear explanation. Your result was definitely clean, and with a wonderful fit.

BTW, did you check the temps on the battery and ESC after your initial flights? The explanation of the flight results was much appreciated, But were you able to evaluate whether or not you were getting cooling air thru the front of the hatch?

Thanks again,

jfv · « **Reply #29 on:** July 23, 2012, 04:16:32 PM »

Jim:

No problem with the battery or ESC temp although the motor was a little warmer than I expected. I think I'm going to cut the nose of the spinner off to promote some more airflow through the motor.

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #30 on:** July 24, 2012, 12:36:49 AM »

I like to drop a small amount of CA over the VG itself - Mine are made from carbon Fiber - and they take a fair amount of desire to remove.. I know this from past experience where I've wanted to test different positions at the field - removal was difficult!

Try that..

The 1 pair VG setup is really only designed for comp spec models - if weight is an issue you will need to add a 2nd pair in toward the tips. This is about the only way to turn a heavy garage queen into a lovely daily driver - increasing the wings ability to generate lift.

Glad I could help ; What I'm trying to get people to realise is ;in aero aviation the main role of VG technology is to lower stall speed and to allow for increase weight. - None of my models in the last 10 years have been beastly heavy so I found moving from multiple pairs to only 1 pair yeilded no performance drop. Using VG technology in Stunt is quite different to Full size aero - from the perspective of what I'm using them to do.

Yes they can be used as a solution to wingloading issues but more importantly at the pointy end of the pattern it helps with stability and getting a cleaner control over the corners in a myriad of conditions from dead calm to wind.

Goodluck with the model ; Sounds like you have it sorted.

jfv · « **Reply #31 on:** July 24, 2012, 08:36:08 PM »

PJ

This model was never designed to be a top of the line competitor, just a good mid-level stunter I can fly and work my way back after so many years off. Your devices are helping make it just that. Although it is certainly flyable the way it's setup now, I think I may have found one of the issues that is causing the bobble on that pesty last corner of the triangles. I've made some changes and will report after my next flying session.

With regard to the VG's breaking off, what type of finish are you using? I used auto base/clear on the Spyder.

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #32 on:** July 25, 2012, 05:01:24 AM »

Same finish but clear PPG

Making them from Carbon Fiber makes a difference.

Frank Imbriaco · « **Reply #33 on:** July 25, 2012, 08:30:07 PM »

Hi Jim,

Found it. Great job !

Hope you have it with you at the airport on Monday.
Frank

jfv · « **Reply #34 on:** July 30, 2012, 05:27:32 PM »

Well I took the Spyder out for its second outing after making a few changes. I taped the hinge gap and changed the prop to an APC 11x 5.5 pusher trimmed to 10.5 inches. I also reset neutral on the elevator to put just of tad of down elevator. Set the lap time at 5.1 seconds, just where I like it. A couple of test flights at 1 minute duration confirmed that the changes were positive. Level flight grooved much better. Rounds were smooth and predictable. Squares were clean and crisp and no stalling in the triangle. I was a happy camper. It was time to fly the pattern. Well the wind was a bit turbulent and I finished the last loop of the clover about 2 inches to low. Knocked the wheel pants off and got a few scuff marks on the airframe. Nothing major, but my hopes of flying it in a contest this weekend were brought to a screeching halt. Oh well, at least it won’t take too long to get it flying again. Looks like I’ll have to fly the Pathfinder this weekend.

Larry Renger · « **Reply #35 on:** August 08, 2012, 05:40:16 PM »

As far as the spinner is concerned, not only should you cut about a 1/2" diameter hole in the nose, but file or moto-tool the webs in the rear to act as a blower. Andy B and I did this on his Naughty Girl and the difference in cooling was astounding! I don't recall the actual numbers, but it went from AAAGH! to OK!

Howard Rush · « **Reply #36 on:** August 09, 2012, 12:24:31 AM »

Quote from: PJ Rowland on July 24, 2012, 12:36:49 AM

What I'm trying to get people to realise is ;in aero aviation the main role of VG technology is to lower stall speed and to allow for increase weight.

The main role is to fix flow separation.

jfv · « **Reply #37 on:** August 09, 2012, 07:26:40 AM »

Flow separation and stall speed are surely related and the VG's help in both respects. They surely made a difference on my Spyder. What I like most about this project is what I learned about the trimming process and how all the little details can make a major difference in fly-ability. Can't wait to get her back in the air.

John Rist · « **Reply #38 on:** August 09, 2012, 07:47:02 AM »

In your picture above the red spinner is a tractor spinner. Are you going to use a pusher prop?

jfv · « **Reply #39 on:** August 09, 2012, 12:14:28 PM »

Yes, I switched to an 11x5.5 pusher cut down to 10.5 inches. Works great. I didn't have any pushers available for its first flights, so I just went with the tractor prop.

PJ Rowland · « **Reply #40 on:** August 10, 2012, 09:34:49 PM »

Howard : Yes your correct - I guess I meant the byproduct of that are the attributes we seek.

Dan Bregar · « **Reply #41 on:** August 12, 2012, 04:12:26 PM »

Quote from: jfv on August 09, 2012, 12:14:28 PM

Yes, I switched to an 11x5.5 pusher cut down to 10.5 inches. Works great. I didn't have any pushers available for its first flights, so I just went with the tractor prop.

JFV

I been using the same prop also cut down to 10.5 on a 36 oz. Magician and also find it works very well on my mtr. running a trifle over 10 grand.

jfv · « **Reply #42 on:** August 12, 2012, 05:23:04 PM »

What motor are you using?