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Author Topic: New Electric Twin project back on track  (Read 116274 times)

Online Bob Hunt

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #200 on: April 27, 2011, 08:48:29 AM »
Today I started in earnest in doping the wing to fill the silkspan. I found out something neat about twins: I can put the model inverted on the holder and brush a coat of dope on the bottom of a wing panel and then turn it over and let it sit on the table supported by the bottoms of the two nacelles and by the bottom of the ventral fin and brush a coat on the top of the same wing panel immediately, without having to hold the model with one hand while brushing with the other. I feel it is important to apply dope to both sides of a wing panel in rapid succesion to prevent any warps that may be induced by uneven drying.

Later - Bob

Offline Allan Perret

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #201 on: April 27, 2011, 11:22:51 AM »
Thats cool.
What about when you get to the spraying stage,  you gonna set up a special holder ?
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #202 on: April 27, 2011, 11:26:22 AM »
Actually, Buddy Wieder came up with a great idea for holding electric ships for spraying. He made a fixture that keys into the battery mount. The same idea will work on this ship as the battery is in the same place as it is in a single motor plane.

Later - Bob

Online Howard Rush

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #203 on: April 27, 2011, 07:41:53 PM »
That is a great idea.  Thanks.
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Offline PJ Rowland

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #204 on: April 27, 2011, 09:31:02 PM »
25 oz...

Im shocked as to how you manage to get it down that low...

I stuggle to get sub 60oz Ships consistantly. - I know what i add in finish, which is normal but WOW 25 oz airframe is incredbile...

Maybe over dinner you can share your tips :) - I look forward. - Back to sanding for me..
If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” - Bruce Lee.

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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #205 on: April 27, 2011, 09:43:55 PM »
Hi PJ:

Remember, that is the airframe weight with the wing covered and the nacelles attached and the spinners taped in place. My projected all-up weight with the battery on board (In the same state as a glow powered plane with a full tank of fuel on board...) is 58 to 59 ounces. Take away a nominal 6 ounces that would be the weight of the glow fuel required for this ship and it would weigh 52 to 53 ounces. Still quite light I think.

I have always been a light builder. My influences in building were also known as light builders. I grew up around Red Reinhardt and Larry Scarinzi, and they were two of the lightest builders of all time. I guess some of it wore off on me.

The fact that the Second Wind has a Warren Truss built-up wing with molded leading edges, and all molded fuselage shells might have something to do with the light weight. I also have a selection of very light wood... That might also be a factor!

I did not get to the retract mounts today, but I'll get the gear issues done over the weekend and be ready to button up the front end with a nose cone and properly fit the canopy/hatch with holdowns. After that it is sand and dope and prime and paint. It will be done in time to get some practice before the Nats!

Later - Bob  
« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 05:27:09 AM by Bob Hunt »

Online Bob Hunt

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #206 on: May 01, 2011, 08:46:24 PM »
I didn't get as much done this weekend as I had hoped to, but I did get the main retract gear mounts made and fit. I made supports from 3/16 inch thick balsa and epoxied them to the sides of the nacelles where the main gear mount plates will reside. Next I cut the mount plates from 1/8-inch birch ply and fit the gear to them and marked the mount holes for drilling. I mounted the blind nuts and cut recesses to clear them in the balsa supports. I'll seal the wood beneath the mount plates with a thin coat of epoxy resin and then glue the mount plates in permanently tomorrow.

The following photos show today's work...

By the way, the holes in the back of the nacelles will be fitted with simulated turboprop exhaust pipes that will serve as air outlets. I think that will look neat!  #^

Later - Bob Hunt

Online Howard Rush

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #207 on: May 01, 2011, 11:01:23 PM »
Twins and retracts.  I'm so far behind.
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #208 on: May 02, 2011, 05:52:17 AM »
When the wheels go up
Scores should erupt
But they’ll say I’m a clown
If they don’t come down

Bob Hunt <=

Offline PJ Rowland

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #209 on: May 02, 2011, 07:14:36 AM »
Twins and retracts
Im so far behind
I paint my plane orange
for the Judges I blind.

If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” - Bruce Lee.

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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #210 on: May 02, 2011, 09:27:36 AM »
When the wheels go up
Scores should erupt
But they’ll say I’m a clown
If they don’t come down
If the judges were managing to be completely objective, retracts would only make a difference in as much as they affect the aerodynamics of flight (and if they make it worse -- oops).  I suspect that if you get any points from the "wow" factor, it'll wear off as the judges get used to seeing the wheels go up.

I'm sure you're already thinking about this, but it sure seems that you'd want to think carefully about when you want the gear to go up.  Too soon and the "wow" factor is of entirely the wrong kind.  Too late and you don't get nearly as much "wow" as you'd like.  Just right, from a purely aesthetic point of view, would be to start a slow retract right as the wheels leave the ground -- but that really flirts with 'too soon' if anything delays takeoff.

I'd be concerned with the retracts messing up the airflow when I'm trying to achieve a smooth takeoff and level flight (actually, I'm a rank beginner -- I can't reliably achieve level flight yet, so retracts would just give me something to blame other than myself).  At worst, you could time things so that the wheels went up after your two laps of level flight, but that would certainly remove a lot of the "wow".  At best, any bobbles from the wheels going up would be slow, and could be timed for the climb phase of the takeoff where they'd hopefully get subsumed in the overall climb.
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Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #211 on: May 02, 2011, 10:40:56 AM »
Trust me, Bob will have them go up at precisely the right time, every time.   BW@
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #212 on: May 03, 2011, 08:20:57 PM »
If the judges were managing to be completely objective, retracts would only make a difference in as much as they affect the aerodynamics of flight (and if they make it worse -- oops).  I suspect that if you get any points from the "wow" factor, it'll wear off as the judges get used to seeing the wheels go up.

I'm sure you're already thinking about this, but it sure seems that you'd want to think carefully about when you want the gear to go up.  Too soon and the "wow" factor is of entirely the wrong kind.  Too late and you don't get nearly as much "wow" as you'd like.  Just right, from a purely aesthetic point of view, would be to start a slow retract right as the wheels leave the ground -- but that really flirts with 'too soon' if anything delays takeoff.

I'd be concerned with the retracts messing up the airflow when I'm trying to achieve a smooth takeoff and level flight (actually, I'm a rank beginner -- I can't reliably achieve level flight yet, so retracts would just give me something to blame other than myself).  At worst, you could time things so that the wheels went up after your two laps of level flight, but that would certainly remove a lot of the "wow".  At best, any bobbles from the wheels going up would be slow, and could be timed for the climb phase of the takeoff where they'd hopefully get subsumed in the overall climb.

Hi Tim:

My little poem was meant as humor, not as a prediction as to what the judges might like. I've been competing in this event for more than 45 years and well know how judges think. I've judged more than 10 Nats and/or FAI Team Trials as well, so I'm familiar with what judges think from that perspective as well. Judges are impressionable, just like anyone else, but there is no telling just what might impress them... I'm doing the twin for personal reasons and because I believe that it may offer many distinct advantages from a flying perspective. That may yield a better pattern, and I do think that judges might be impressed by that.

I've been toying with the idea of retracts since 1976. I actually started building my Nats ship (The Genesis 46 Mk III that ultimately did win that Nats...) with retracts. My father, James A. Hunt, voiced some of the same concerns that you mentioned.  I've recently been working on a book about the Genesis series of airplanes and that story is included in the text of that book. Instead of retyping it here, I'll just drop that segment in here now:

Excerpt from Genesis book:

The really great thing about CL Stunt is that there is always a next season. The great thing about CL Stunt people is that they are always willing to give you another chance. The really great thing about a bad plane is the fact that you can build a new, better one!

And that's just what I did. Over the winter of 1975-’76 I evaluated my entire program and decided that my basic design airplane was good. I just needed to execute every aspect of the program with more thought, energy, commitment and enthusiasm. The enthusiasm part almost got out of control…

I decided to make a real statement and put retractable landing gear in my 1976 Genesis 46 Mk III. This decision was made after talking with my father about practical methods of triggering the retraction and extension of the gear in a two-wire CL system. We discussed some pretty wild and outlandish systems, but then he hit on one that really sounded doable.

Dad told me about bi-metal switches. The idea was to use a bi-metal switch that would be located in the muffler (remember, this was way before we had tuned pipes…). As soon as the engine was started the bi-metal switch would separate or close, depending on how it was setup, and the signal would be given to a servo to retract the landing gear. Of course we would need a delay in the system to allow the model to become airborne before the retraction process would begin and he suggested a simple pullout Free Flight type timer switch to do this. So, all the pilot would have to do is signal the holder to start the timer and launch the plane. When the FF timer bottomed, the circuit to the servo would be completed and the gear would go up. At the end of the flight the engine would shut off and hence the heat source that was keeping the bi-metal switch closed would be gone, and the bi-metal would click in the other direction, reversing the circuit and extending the gear. I know, it sounded a bit complicated to me at first too, but I soon bought into the concept when my father demonstrated how quickly a bi-metal set would heat up and trigger and how fast it would reverse when the heat was removed. I was sold!

Dad even designed our own retractable landing gear units. They were based on very light aluminum frames and a simple but positive toggle lock system. This was used to insure they would not try to extend during flight do to “G” loads. 

I went to work making a foam wing core for the new Genesis and devised an accurate mounting system in which I installed 1/8-inch thick Lite-Ply half ribs from the leading edge back to the full-depth spar at the high point of the wing. These ribs had a “land” cut into them to accept a landing gear mount plate. The thought was to capture the retractable landing gear units in a strong structure. Up to that point we had all been gluing a section of the front core piece back into the wing and simply sinking a landing gear block into that piece of foam with a lot of epoxy to hold it in place. That system was heavy, weak and messy. I wanted something that was strong, simple, light, accurate and easy to repeat. That was the first use of the landing gear mounting system that became the norm in the following years for use in foam core CL wings by all of the manufacturers in the United States.

In those days I was covering my wing cores with .045 (3/64) balsa sheeting. I had saved some very light sheeting for this ship and it paid off; it was an extremely light wing! I also continued the use of foam flaps that were cut as a one piece unit with the foam wing core and then covered along with the wing core. Of course the actual sheeting that was used on the flap had the grain running parallel to the leading edge of the flap. The wing’s sheeting ran parallel to the leading edge of the wing core.

I had the wing complete and ready to install in the fuselage when someone asked me if there would be enough drag with the landing gear retracted to prevent the model from “whipping up.” I hadn’t even given that any thought. I decided to take the landing gear out of the 1975 Genesis 46 MkII and have my dad hand-launch it over some lush grass at the field so that when I landed it there would be no chance of scratching the finish.

Well, the first thing I noticed when the plane was airborne was that it flew as if it weighed many ounces less than it actually did. I had felt this to a point years earlier when I flew profile models with the gear off, but this larger ship without the gear was an eyeopening experience. It also turned absolutely equally in both directions and was much easier to transition in the intersections of the figure eight maneuvers. Over all it just flew much, much better than it did with the normal landing gear attached. I was giddy; right up to the point when we flew it in some significant wind without the landing gear. Then the model demonstrated a lot of acceleration in maneuvers. And, that was the deciding factor in scraping the idea of retractable landing gear until we could come up with a method of keeping the model from speeding up when the gear is up. Oh well…

But wait; the wing had already been made to accept the retract units! That’s when I came up with the landing gear plate system that I’m still using to this day in my personal wings and in the wings I produce commercially. The old system had the groove for the landing gear wire exposed along the exterior of the wing, more or less like the systems seen in RC sport planes. The torsion portion of the wire ran in the exposed groove and then bent upwards into the wing where it was anchored in a maple “spur” block. A pair of metal or nylon straps held the wire in place in the grooved block. The new rib system allowed me to install a recessed plate that had a groove running down its center. The same type of anchor spur block was used, but now it could be designed to not only sit atop the plate, but also butt up against the Lite-Ply rib, giving it a tremendous amount of strength with even less weight than with the old system. An added benefit was that now I could craft a form-fitting cover plate and make the entire system virtually invisible. It was lighter, stronger, and more attractive than the old way of doing it. And, it was actually discovered/developed by accident! That’s what I call serendipity. (end)


I hope the above story was entertaining and even instructional about how much thought and research go into new technologies.

Later - Bob Hunt
 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 08:40:33 PM by Bob Hunt »

Online Howard Rush

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #213 on: May 03, 2011, 10:03:02 PM »
I should introduce you guys.  Bob, meet Tim. Tim, Bob.  Bob is a former US National and World stunt champ.  He also either built a good chunk of our airplanes or taught us how to do it ourselves.  Bob is a good guy.  Tim is an electrical engineer who does motor control systems for a living.  We are learning things from him, too.  Tim is also a good guy. 
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #214 on: May 04, 2011, 01:14:44 AM »
It sure seems that with a wide selection motors and props, that you should be able to get more braking in he down lines.  You may need to go with some combination that's too aggressive at braking when the gear is down.

And I didn't want to say anything that would stop you: I'm just mentioning points that you may have not yet pondered, or have skipped over lightly.
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Online Howard Rush

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #215 on: May 04, 2011, 03:52:46 AM »
It sure seems that with a wide selection motors and props, that you should be able to get more braking in he down lines.  You may need to go with some combination that's too aggressive at braking when the gear is down.

And I didn't want to say anything that would stop you: I'm just mentioning points that you may have not yet pondered, or have skipped over lightly.

Since that experience in 1976, Bob pioneered tuned pipes in stunt planes.  Now he's known for having one of the best regulated electric powerplants.  He'll be OK if he doesn't get the polarity on the props and motors mixed up:

motor 1 rotation   motor 2 rotation   prop 1  prop 2  outcome
        L                       L                  L         L         OK
        L                       L                  L         R         bad
        L                       L                  R         L         bad
        L                       L                  R         R         bad
        L                       R                  L         L         bad
        L                       R                  L         R         good
        L                       R                  R         L         bad
        L                       R                  R         R         bad  
        R                       L                  L         L         bad
        R                       L                  L         R         bad
        R                       L                  R         L         good
        R                       L                  R         R         bad
        R                       R                  L         L         bad
        R                       R                  L         R         bad
        R                       R                  R         L         bad
        R                       R                  R         R         OK

I wouldn't risk it.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 09:57:22 PM by Howard Rush »
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Offline John Witt

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #216 on: May 05, 2011, 12:00:15 AM »
Just feel for breeze in the right direction behind each engine, then let go. <=

John
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #217 on: May 05, 2011, 05:44:25 AM »
Yeah, John, that's pretty much my plan for the first flight!  ;D

Bob

Offline Dean Pappas

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #218 on: May 05, 2011, 07:47:52 AM »
Actually, Bob is just covering up our efforts at creating the first Stealth Heli-Stunter. :!

In a semi-reenactment of Bob and Jim Hunt's efforts back in '76, I created a one-off control system that would control retracts via the lines but without having to insulate them. We called it FRED for Functional Retracts Eliminate Drag.
Right after Toledo in '89, I drove to Werwage's place and we spent 36 almost nonstop hours cutting retrcats into his old Tiger 46 powered Blue Max (really just another USA-1). Cutting Retract wells into an I-beamer was a joy! A few weekends later Bob, Bill and i flew the ship in turbulent air and the results were similarly astounding. We never had runway wind conditions to fly in, and the entire program was put on the back burner before they were available.
Regards,
Dean P.
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Offline Randy Cuberly

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #219 on: May 05, 2011, 05:24:18 PM »
I didn't get as much done this weekend as I had hoped to, but I did get the main retract gear mounts made and fit. I made supports from 3/16 inch thick balsa and epoxied them to the sides of the nacelles where the main gear mount plates will reside. Next I cut the mount plates from 1/8-inch birch ply and fit the gear to them and marked the mount holes for drilling. I mounted the blind nuts and cut recesses to clear them in the balsa supports. I'll seal the wood beneath the mount plates with a thin coat of epoxy resin and then glue the mount plates in permanently tomorrow.

The following photos show today's work...

By the way, the holes in the back of the nacelles will be fitted with simulated turboprop exhaust pipes that will serve as air outlets. I think that will look neat!  #^

Later - Bob Hunt


Incredible stuff Bob.  I wonder where stunt would be without the innovators like you.  Thanks for keeping things moving forward, even though it does create a little envy!
Personally I expect great things from your current effort.

Randy Cuberly
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Online Howard Rush

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #220 on: May 05, 2011, 06:58:03 PM »
Personally I expect great things from your current effort.

But you know how Bob gets hot when his current effort meets with resistance.
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #221 on: May 05, 2011, 09:30:14 PM »
Thanks, Randy!

It's been fun, and putting the photos up with a running log of the work has kept me going with the project when sometimes all I wanted to do is kick back and relax.

Howard, your comments make me Ohm sick... :'(

Bob <=

Offline PJ Rowland

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #222 on: May 05, 2011, 10:18:28 PM »
Come on guys, Bob needs Positive comments, Negative ones dont help.  ;)

I dont blame you Bob, Id want to relax also with all of this verbal battery from your fellow fliers.

You have the capacity to make this project amazing.

Your conduct in staying on track is most admirable.

Phase 1 : Conception
Phase 2 : Build

Now your so close to PHASE 3 - Paint.

I think you might have an un farad vantage flying Second wind

My resistance to post further in this thread has been overcome by my capacitance to reason clearly.


If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” - Bruce Lee.

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 I Yearn for a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned.

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #223 on: May 11, 2011, 09:45:20 PM »
 Watt's up Bob? ;D
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Online Bob Hunt

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #224 on: May 12, 2011, 10:43:47 AM »
Well, it looks like real life is going to win another one and keep me from finishing the twin on schedule to go to the Nats with it this year. I teach Motorcycle Safety and our classes are overflowing this year due to the gas price crunch. It seems that everybody wants a Motorcycle License to allow them to buy a small and fuel efficient bike for commuting and for errands. That's actually a very bad reason to buy a bike... Anyway, I'm teaching people to ride mornings, evenings and weekends. Add to that my foam wing work schedule and there is no time available to me to work on my own stuff. I guess I could give up sleep, but I'm already sort of doing that!

I will not ruin this ship by rushing it to finish. I'll finish up and fly my new Crossfire instead this year and work on the twin for next year's Nats. I should be able to put on a well detailed and glossy finish with that much time to work with.

I feel really bad about not getting it done, but, on the other hand, it is a fun project and I don't see a need to rush it. I'm enjoying the build! y1 

Later - Bob Hunt

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #225 on: May 12, 2011, 06:41:13 PM »
 Sounds wise to me. y1 How about a pic of the Crossfire?
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
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Offline PJ Rowland

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #226 on: May 12, 2011, 06:42:36 PM »
Dissapointing... I wonder If its too late for me to refund me airline ticket......


I thought the crossfire was at the same stage of finish?
If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” - Bruce Lee.

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Offline Bill Little

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #227 on: May 15, 2011, 11:10:44 AM »
Hi Bob,

Bummer, but you know what's best and we all know that not rushing the project at this late stage is best.  It will still be an awesome plane when finished!  And you will have a great deal more time to get it all sorted out before next years NATS, that's for sure.  You should be well settled into the plane by next year.  It would have definitely been a time crunch to get it ready and you probably would not have had much time to really get the trim and other dealings with the set up, etc., really worked out.  Good Luck with the Crossfire!

Bill
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Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #228 on: May 15, 2011, 12:12:42 PM »
It seems that everybody wants a Motorcycle License to allow them to buy a small and fuel efficient bike for commuting and for errands. That's actually a very bad reason to buy a bike...
I sometimes consider buying a motorcycle for just that reason, then I reflect on the fact that I have totaled not one, but two bicycles by rear-ending cars and I change my mind.

I doubt that I'll make it to the nats before your twin is worn out, so when you get it flying would you please post a movie or two -- maybe one walk-around, and another flying?
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The problem with electric is that once you get the smoke generator and sound system installed, the plane is too heavy.

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #229 on: May 18, 2011, 02:55:43 AM »
I guess youd run two throttle settings for take-off then ' gear up ' . to keep speed even ?

A rubber Turbo Goose (Gruman) and the P-38 Lockheed run the props opposite to initial logic ,
i.e. std rotation inboard , L.H. outboard .I guess it gives favourable bias on rear stabilisor, when
its set above thrust line .

Now I guess there going to allow timers for Gas Engines , or you guys will need to fly till your
batteries run out . :!, otherwise its not gonna be a ' level playing field . !  <= or we'll all need
to fit electric spark , & throttles .  ~^

Offline PerttiMe

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #230 on: May 18, 2011, 04:37:02 AM »
I sometimes consider buying a motorcycle for just that reason, then I reflect on the fact that I have totaled not one, but two bicycles by rear-ending cars and I change my mind.
You need to put a front brake on your bike ... and learn how to use it ;)

There's a reason why cars and motorcycles have bigger brakes in the front  y1
I built a Blue Pants as a kid. Wish I still had it. Might even learn to fly it.

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #231 on: May 20, 2011, 09:37:05 AM »
Bob, I haven't been here for a while.   Looks like it is coming together.  I like your statement of it is not anoter Nobler.   It is a very sleek design.   Now about your side kick,  I going to say the reason he has more hair is that he doesn't think as much as we do. LL~ LL~ Now I know he is going to kick my behind.   Now I need to get in gear on my projects.  Want to get the ISW in the air for VSC 2012. H^^
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #232 on: September 02, 2011, 09:29:07 PM »
 It's been quite a while Bob, what's the latest??? ;D
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #233 on: September 03, 2011, 02:04:52 PM »
Hi Wayne:

The Second Wind twin took to the back burner while I finished up my Crossfire Extreme for the Nats. I plan on starting on it again sometime later this month (September) and having it ready for finish by the end of October.
Don't worry, I haven't lost interest in it; I just want it to be as good as it can be and that means finding some time to focus on it completely.

Later - Bob

Offline Dick Pacini

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #234 on: September 03, 2011, 04:09:51 PM »
At the '73 NATS, I was new like a puppy
Bob Hunt was there, flying his Guppy

We both made the finals, but he did much better
I came in last, like an old Irish Setter
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Offline PJ Rowland

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #235 on: September 26, 2011, 09:56:12 PM »
"I plan on starting on it again sometime later this month (September)"


Well ? Updates... we need updates.....

27 Sept..
If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” - Bruce Lee.

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 I Yearn for a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned.

Online Bob Hunt

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #236 on: July 09, 2012, 08:32:16 PM »
Hi all:

As Arnold is famous for saying... I'm back...

I have had a lot of requests for more information on the Second Wind twin that I am building. It has been on the back burner for a while as I refinished my Crossfire that was broken at the Nats last year when a dust devil picked it up and slammed it into the ground. It was and still is a great flying ship, and I'm very glad I took the time to rebuild and refinish it.

I've started work on the twin again and have the main retract units installed and have the nacelle covers opened to allow the gear wires and wheels to retract without any clearance problems. The next step is to fit the nose gear, adjust the axle position to yield the proper stance angle and then fit the lower molded chin cowl, the nose block and the top hatch. It will then be ready for finishing.

Hopefully it will be ready for paint by September.

I'm attaching a few photos to show where I am on the project, and also a couple of the rebuilt and refinished Crossfire Extreme.

Later - Bob Hunt

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #237 on: July 09, 2012, 09:04:03 PM »
But eventually, you'll finish it. right Bob?
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Offline Jason Greer

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #238 on: July 09, 2012, 09:07:34 PM »
The Crossfire refinish looks wonderful!

Will you be in Muncie next week? 

Jason
El Dorado, AR
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Online Crist Rigotti

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #239 on: July 09, 2012, 10:16:28 PM »
Bob,
There's something about a red, white, and blue airplane!  Beautiful job.  All the best with it next week.
Crist
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #240 on: July 09, 2012, 11:02:29 PM »
Looks fantastic Bob!!! Best of luck with it next week at the NATS!
Matt Colan

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #241 on: July 10, 2012, 05:57:45 AM »
The Crossfire looks awesome Bob! Very cool paint scheme. I love the look of the nose and rudder.

Derek

Offline Allan Perret

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #242 on: July 10, 2012, 06:59:38 AM »
Wow, the twin's gear installation is some kind of cool.  
The only thing that could top that would be full funcioning gear doors. (but I wouldn't even think about going there).

Hey Bob:
  
What is the setup of the thrust lines on the twin,  motors and stab relative to the wing ?

Are you going to setup the motors counter-rotation ?    If so, what props are you thinking about ?

Sorry if these have been covered earlier.  If so, let me know and I'll go back and re-read the whole thread.




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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #243 on: July 10, 2012, 07:14:18 AM »
Hi Randy:

Well... yes, I fully intend to finish and fly this beast eventually.  :-\ I started it as an experimental design and one that was really not intended to be used in competition unless it flew really well. The jury is still out on that aspect until we, well, fly it. I think it's going to work well because it is light and straight and has gobs of disk area. I don't feel the need to rush this project, however, as it is a fun thing for me. I'll work on it when I'm in the mood to do everything right. There is no rush to get it to the field. I feel the pressure from others, however, to get it done and I appreciate that. Please be patient; it will get done fairly soon.  y1

Jason, Crist, Matt and Derek:

Wow! Thanks for the comments about the Crossfire!. Phil Granderson called and told me that he was coming to the Nats to protest this ship, because it was evident to him that I didn't build or finish it as it has no visible bronze or copper paint on it!  >:D Actually thanks go out to Phil for once again bailing me out with beautiful painting stencils for the letters and numbers.

Derek, I like the treatment on the front end and the rudder/fin too! Must give credit where credit is due on this (that seems to be more important than ever on this forum...) aspect of the trim scheme. My good friend, Sina Goudarzi - a graphic artist who works in Adobe Illustrator among other things - helped me to get the effect I was searching for. I told him that I wanted to take the Thunderbird scheme to a new level, using a lot of the color and design cues, but taking it to a totally new look. We exchanged a gazillion emails and he was extremely patient with me as I asked him to adjust the scheme about 50 times (literally!). Finally Sina packed up his computer and came to my house to work with me for a full day and get the look I was looking for. I must confess that I was stubborn and it took Sina a while to convince me on some of the elements, but he was usually right! In fact, the scheme I’m using on this ship is only part of the total scheme that Sina and I agreed on. Time was short, so we abbreviated it for this year. Next year, on my two new Crossfires,  the scheme will be expanded to include a very stylish Crossfire logo on the top of the wing and on each side of the fin, and an amazing “Thunderbird” on the bottom of the wing. The time it would have taken to do those elements on this ship would have pushed me back at least a week. I felt the practice time was more important on this occasion. By the way, your new ship looks awesome as well. You have far more patience than I do for detail…  n~

Later - Bob

Offline Tom Niebuhr

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #244 on: July 10, 2012, 08:04:20 AM »
Bob,
Just had to say again that the rebuilt Crossfire is awesome. I am glad that you will be continuing to expand the T-bird's scheme in the future.  Many thanks to Sina Goudarzi from all of us.

Oh.. please don't use the brown, bronze, copper on the twin. I am sure that Sina can help you.

Good flying at the Nats!
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #245 on: July 10, 2012, 09:03:33 AM »
Now how are we going to know which is Bob's planes?     Really Bob, the scheme looks great.   Have fun at the NATS and don't be too hard on the kids. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Derek Barry

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #246 on: July 10, 2012, 09:54:53 AM »
Hey Bob,

I am not sure if it is far more patience or far more insanity. n~ Either way, thank you and see ya soon.

Derek

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #247 on: July 10, 2012, 10:05:54 AM »
Derek:

I'm fairly certain we are both equally insane, along with many, many others in this event. In fact, that's why I like it!  y1

See you in Muncie! Bob

Offline PJ Rowland

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #248 on: July 10, 2012, 10:43:57 AM »
Derek, you could learn alot from Bob - those wheel pants came out of his workshop that way the same day the model was painted.

 S?P
If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” - Bruce Lee.

...
 I Yearn for a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned.

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: New Electric Twin project back on track
« Reply #249 on: July 10, 2012, 11:29:28 AM »
Derek, you could learn alot from Bob - those wheel pants came out of his workshop that way the same day the model was painted.

 S?P

Yea yea yea, Mine are painted now   ::)

Derek :)


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